The latest all encompassing recruiting thread

[007]

Just The group that accepts and makes excuses for our failures INSTEAD of expecting and wanting better.

Truth be told I dont have a problem with you, Money or any other members of your group. I truly think we all want to be able bask in Syracuse wins and success. If Money is a coach (or in any other leadership position for that matter) he should understand why some of us dont except the failure we have seen recently from our great school. I really dont get why some of you do.

Posters are trying to point out to you the flaws in your "reasoning." And some of those posters, like money3189, have been pretty gracious given the tone of some of your comments.

Is it your belief that the staff is failing to target 4 and 5 star recruits? Or, that the staff is targeting the wrong high end recruits and/or in the wrong geographic area(s)?
Or, do you think the staff does not expect success or simply can't close for reasons other than not being able to win on the field?

As for your belief that there is a "group" of posters who don't expect or want better, that's just nonsensical.

 

[General Joe]

Posters are trying to point out to you the flaws in your "reasoning." And some of those posters, like money3189, have been pretty gracious given the tone of some of your comments.

Is it your belief that the staff is failing to target 4 and 5 star recruits? Or, that the staff is targeting the wrong high end recruits and/or in the wrong geographic area(s)?
Or, do you think the staff does not expect success or simply can't close for reasons other than not being able to win on the field?

As for your belief that there is a "group" of posters who don't expect or want better, that's just nonsensical.

This conversation is starting to get ridiculous. If you have been on here you know exactly what my concerns, thoughts opinions are so no need to go through them again. Its been a 3 year conversation. If you haven't, I question why you would put yourself in the middle of something where you do know what the points of contention are.

 

[General Joe]

Posters are trying to point out to you the flaws in your "reasoning." And some of those posters, like money3189, have been pretty gracious given the tone of some of your comments.

Is it your belief that the staff is failing to target 4 and 5 star recruits? Or, that the staff is targeting the wrong high end recruits and/or in the wrong geographic area(s)?
Or, do you think the staff does not expect success or simply can't close for reasons other than not being able to win on the field?

As for your belief that there is a "group" of posters who don't expect or want better, that's just nonsensical.

I will say this. Some on here think Syracuse should be able to recruit higher than the level it has when you compare it to the other 13 ACC teams. I am in that group. I dont think BC, Pitt,NC,Duke, NCST, Wake, UVA are better overall programs than Syracuse full stop. We should routinely be recruiting above where these programs are OR atleast somewhere in the middle of the pack. I dont expect us to recruit with Clemson.

Another group on here thinks our recruiting the last four years has been fine. Ironically this year some of them have started saying "the recruiting needs to improve". But for 3 years prior they argued with me and anyone else who criticized the recruiting.

Since we all are in agreement that the recruiting needs to improve I have been going out of my way not to argue on here. If you look at my post over the last two weeks for example I have tried to focus on the recruit whose thread I am posting. So your comment about my tone I will just say is interesting

 

[money3189]

I will say this. Some on here think Syracuse should be able to recruit higher than the level it has when you compare it to the other 13 ACC teams. I am in that group. I dont think BC, Pitt,NC,Duke, NCST, Wake, UVA are better overall programs than Syracuse full stop. We should routinely be recruiting above where these programs are OR atleast somewhere in the middle of the pack. I dont expect us to recruit with Clemson.

Another group on here thinks our recruiting the last four years has been fine. Ironically this year some of them have started saying "the recruiting needs to improve". But for 3 years prior they argued with me and anyone else who criticized the recruiting.

Since we all are in agreement that the recruiting needs to improve I have been going out of my way not to argue on here. If you look at my post over the last two weeks for example I have tried to focus on the recruit whose thread I am posting. So your comment about my tone I will just say is interesting

My man, you refuse to believe that winning helps with recruiting. I don't know anyone who shares that same belief. That's what people mean by "flaws in your reasoning"

 

[721Comstock]

My man, you refuse to believe that winning helps with recruiting. I don't know anyone who shares that same belief. That's what people mean by "flaws in your reasoning"

No, no man - you’re all wrong!

You just have to WANT IT BAD ENOUGH.
And WORK HARDER AT IT.
RECRUIT HARDER!!!
RECRUIT BETTER RECRUITS!!

It’s just like dating.
Keep after that girl NO MATTER WHAT!!
It’s why the General has dated a string of supermodels his entire adult life, while everybody else is lucky if they can land the girl next door.

The current staff clearly just doesn’t understand this.

 

[CuseLegacy]

This conversation is starting to get ridiculous. If you have been on here you know exactly what my concerns, thoughts opinions are so no need to go through them again. Its been a 3 year conversation. If you haven't, I question why you would put yourself in the middle of something where you do know what the points of contention are.

Three years? Your first post on here was in October 2018. Perhaps you've had this conversation for three years but not on here.

 

[orangefog]

Three years? Your first post on here was in October 2018. Perhaps you've had this conversation for three years but not on here.

It’s felt like ten.

 

[General Joe]

My man, you refuse to believe that winning helps with recruiting. I don't know anyone who shares that same belief. That's what people mean by "flaws in your reasoning"

But I have never said that!!! Thats your talking point and excuse for our recruiting.

Here is what I have always said on this forum.
1. Recruiters can recruit anywhere- if you dont believe me see Mac Brown at NC
2. If you dont target higher recruits your probably wont get higher recruits
3. Recruiting at a MAC level will keep us at the bottom of ACC
4. Syracuse is a better football program and destination BY FAR than 5 or 6 other ACC schools if football is a kids focus
5. We can close 4 star recruits (Duce, Trill , TD) in our geographical footprint (NY NJ PA MA MD CT) easier than from Florida(???????)

Those 5 points are what you argue with me about. And I'm just not interested in arguing anymore. The HEAD FOOTBALL COACH at Syracuse has publicly said the previous recruiting didn't work and he is targeting higher players. I am all for that win or lose. Are you?

 

[General Joe]

Three years? Your first post on here was in October 2018. Perhaps you've had this conversation for three years but not on here.

Three recruiting cycles!!!!! But correct its felt like 10

 

[bnoro]

But I have never said that!!! Thats your talking point and excuse for our recruiting.

Here is what I have always said on this forum.
1. Recruiters can recruit anywhere- if you dont believe me see Mac Brown at NC
2. If you dont target higher recruits your probably wont get higher recruits
3. Recruiting at a MAC level will keep us at the bottom of ACC
4. Syracuse is a better football program and destination BY FAR than 5 or 6 other ACC schools if football is a kids focus
5. We can close 4 star recruits (Duce, Trill , TD) in our geographical footprint (NY NJ PA MA MD CT) easier than from Florida(???????)

Those 5 points are what you argue with me about. And I'm just not interested in arguing anymore. The HEAD FOOTBALL COACH at Syracuse has publicly said the previous recruiting didn't work and he is targeting higher players. I am all for that win or lose. Are you?

1. Mack Brown would not be doing what he's doing at UNC at Syracuse. The talent pool in that area is far more fertile. He has hundreds of P5 prospects within a 3 hour drive for unofficial visits. Syracuse has probably 50 prospects within a 3 hour drive .
2. We've offered hundreds of four star kids. If they don't want to come here it's a waste of our time. If interest isn't reciprocated move on.
3. "Recruiting at a MAC level" won us 10 games literally 2 years ago. We're not recruiting on a MAC level, that statement is silly. If we recruit a guy offered by all MAC schools, I'll take that any day. The best players in the MAC get drafted.
4. Syracuse is a better destination BY FAR than 5 or 6 other ACC schools? Based on whose rankings?
5. Trill and TD weren't 4 star kids when we started recruiting them, they were elevated after they were already committed. So based on your criteria they probably weren't good enough. NJ/NY/PA/MA/MD/CT don't produce enough top players to solely recruit those areas. We've always been successful mixing in talent from FL, it's been our lifeblood. These aren't mutually exclusive things, you can do both.

You've always presented issues with no solution. You just say "target higher guys" and then we miss on higher guys and have to fall back on "lower guys". Or, you can trust the staff's evaluations that the players we bring in are good enough to do the job we ask them to do?

 

[General Joe]

1. Mack Brown would not be doing what he's doing at UNC at Syracuse. The talent pool in that area is far more fertile. He has hundreds of P5 prospects within a 3 hour drive for unofficial visits. Syracuse has probably 50 prospects within a 3 hour drive .
2. We've offered hundreds of four star kids. If they don't want to come here it's a waste of our time. If interest isn't reciprocated move on.
3. "Recruiting at a MAC level" won us 10 games literally 2 years ago. We're not recruiting on a MAC level, that statement is silly. If we recruit a guy offered by all MAC schools, I'll take that any day. The best players in the MAC get drafted.
4. Syracuse is a better destination BY FAR than 5 or 6 other ACC schools? Based on whose rankings?
5. Trill and TD weren't 4 star kids when we started recruiting them, they were elevated after they were already committed. So based on your criteria they probably weren't good enough. NJ/NY/PA/MA/MD/CT don't produce enough top players to solely recruit those areas. We've always been successful mixing in talent from FL, it's been our lifeblood. These aren't mutually exclusive things, you can do both.

You've always presented issues with no solution. You just say "target higher guys" and then we miss on higher guys and have to fall back on "lower guys". Or, you can trust the staff's evaluations that the players we bring in are good enough to do the job we ask them to do?

This Is why I dont argue with you anymore. You think sooooooo little of Syracuse AND you expect so little. After looking at your post for 2+ years I get you. Smh. I just think we are a better school and football program than you do. We look at Syracuse from two totally opposite lenses. Lets just agree to disagree on that.

 

[money3189]

But I have never said that!!! Thats your talking point and excuse for our recruiting.

Here is what I have always said on this forum.
1. Recruiters can recruit anywhere- if you dont believe me see Mac Brown at NC
2. If you dont target higher recruits your probably wont get higher recruits
3. Recruiting at a MAC level will keep us at the bottom of ACC
4. Syracuse is a better football program and destination BY FAR than 5 or 6 other ACC schools if football is a kids focus
5. We can close 4 star recruits (Duce, Trill , TD) in our geographical footprint (NY NJ PA MA MD CT) easier than from Florida(???????)

Those 5 points are what you argue with me about. And I'm just not interested in arguing anymore. The HEAD FOOTBALL COACH at Syracuse has publicly said the previous recruiting didn't work and he is targeting higher players. I am all for that win or lose. Are you?

You are hard to figure it out. Your responses make it seems like you think that way. You come up with these different points when you should stick to the topic of the post you are replying to. Your point gets lost. Makes it hard to understand.

Btw. Thats ground breaking insight. I’m impressed.

 

[money3189]

This Is why I dont argue with you anymore. You think sooooooo little of Syracuse AND you expect so little. After looking at your post for 2+ years I get you. Smh. I just think we are a better school and football program than you do. We look at Syracuse from two totally opposite lenses. Lets just agree to disagree on that.

It’s called knowing SU recruiting. bnoro has provided info and insight for years. Oct 2018? You are like an infant in terms of this recruiting board. It seems like you just opened your Infant eyes but refuse to listen to people’s experiences that would better prepare you for the world. Real talk.

 

[General Joe]

It’s called knowing SU recruiting. bnoro has provided info and insight for years. Oct 2018? You are like an infant in terms of this recruiting board. It seems like you just opened your Infant eyes but refuse to listen to people’s experiences that would better prepare you for the world. Real talk.

Ok here is some real talk. I monitored this forum probably for like 3 or 4 years. There is SOME insight but mostly a lot of just random fan talk. Nothing wrong with that. I believe my first post was in the Akok Akok thread back on a Saturday or Sunday in Oct 2018. The reason I posted was because some people i believe Bnoro was one of them was saying that it was a done deal that AA was going to UCONN. I personally had spoke to AA and a few other kids that Thursday so I knew for a 100% fact it wasn't a done deal. The kid literally told me that he was considering SU that past Thursday. So my first post here that Sat or Sunday morning was after I made TWO phone calls to see if he had decided in 24 hours since I spoke to the kid. Shortly after my post on this forum, Zag reported and AA tweeted that he had NOT committed to UCONN. Do the math. Go back look at my post look at the time stamps then look at the link that one of you posted from Zag and the subsequent tweet from AA. Obviously he ended up at UCONN about a month or so later. My point is, just because I dont agree with you (sometimes) or Bnoro or your group. It doesn't mean that I dont talk to these kids coaches, and parents, school administrators etc.

Some of us have direct links to these kids but dont neccesarily feel like telling you the sources or putting business out there before a kid does. Perhaps I know Big Duff and he told me his son is pulling back from Michigan and looking at us harder. Could be or maybe not. Perhaps I started talking about Duce Chestnut coming here two weeks before he committed because I was told. Could be or maybe not. Here is something I will definitely say, I dont have any connections with HCDB staff and am not a NCAA registered booster

 

[money3189]

Ok here is some real talk. I monitored this forum probably for like 3 or 4 years. There is SOME insight but mostly a lot of just random fan talk. Nothing wrong with that. I believe my first post was in the Akok Akok thread back on a Saturday or Sunday in Oct 2018. The reason I posted was because some people i believe Bnoro was one of them was saying that it was a done deal that AA was going to UCONN. I personally had spoke to AA and a few other kids that Thursday so I knew for a 100% fact it wasn't a done deal. The kid literally told me that he was considering SU that past Thursday. So my first post here that Sat or Sunday morning was after I made TWO phone calls to see if he had decided in 24 hours since I spoke to the kid. Shortly after my post on this forum, Zag reported and AA tweeted that he had NOT committed to UCONN. Do the math. Go back look at my post look at the time stamps then look at the link that one of you posted from Zag and the subsequent tweet from AA. Obviously he ended up at UCONN about a month or so later. My point is, just because I dont agree with you (sometimes) or Bnoro or your group. It doesn't mean that I dont talk to these kids coaches, and parents, school administrators etc.

Some of us have direct links to these kids but dont neccesarily feel like telling you the sources or putting business out there before a kid does. Perhaps I know Big Duff and he told me his son is pulling back from Michigan and looking at us harder. Could be or maybe not. Perhaps I started talking about Duce Chestnut coming here two weeks before he committed because I was told. Could be or maybe not. Here is something I will definitely say, I dont have any connections with HCDB staff and am not a NCAA registered booster

Again you talk a bunch about stuff that is not needed. I mentioned the history and experience of guy you called out. He's done it for 10 years, not 3. I dont need your hoops history. I don't go on the hoops threads. My allegiance is to the football team.

 

[money3189]

I am glad you got the sense of what I was saying. I am afraid you missed my point. Lets just leave it at you love Syracuse Football and I love my school.

Its better to value those relationships than win a forum debate

 

[kcsu]

Its better to value those relationships than win a forum debate

Say who

 

[General Joe]

Its better to value those relationships than win a forum debate

LMAO!! FINALLY something we both agree on 100% ! Thats why I never mentioned it in the Akok Akok thread 2 years at the time even during the argument. Its a discipline I employ even now during the silly arguments about specific football recruits. I hear on here all the time people are "connected" and what they say is wrong ESPECIALLY on the football side. But its a forum where most are giving opinions so what. I let them live. No big deal.

But just so you dont have to throw qualifications of other people on this forum, go back and look at that thread now that you have the back story. BTW I am not the only person in this forum that knew what was happening. They just dont like arguing with "certain people or groups"

 

[money3189]

LMAO!! FINALLY something we both agree on 100% ! Thats why I never mentioned it in the Akok Akok thread 2 years at the time even during the argument. Its a discipline I employ even now during the silly arguments about specific football recruits. I hear on here all the time people are "connected" and what they say is wrong ESPECIALLY on the football side. But its a forum where most are giving opinions so what. I let them live. No big deal.

But just so you dont have to throw qualifications of other people on this forum, go back and look at that thread now that you have the back story. BTW I am not the only person in this forum that knew what was happening. They just dont like arguing with "certain people or groups"

The only thing I will tell you is that Ive had players play for SU and helped many of the names you mention in your posts. I talk from experiences, not guesses. Have a good night.

 

[General Joe]

The only thing I will tell you is that Ive had players play for SU and helped many of the names you mention in your posts. I talk from experiences, not guesses. Have a good night.

Good!!!! Then you should know why I am so high on my school. I love it!!! And people that think we should be a 4 or 5 win team in the ACC piss me off

 

[Alsacs]

But I have never said that!!! Thats your talking point and excuse for our recruiting.

Here is what I have always said on this forum.
1. Recruiters can recruit anywhere- if you dont believe me see Mac Brown at NC
2. If you dont target higher recruits your probably wont get higher recruits
3. Recruiting at a MAC level will keep us at the bottom of ACC
4. Syracuse is a better football program and destination BY FAR than 5 or 6 other ACC schools if football is a kids focus
5. We can close 4 star recruits (Duce, Trill , TD) in our geographical footprint (NY NJ PA MA MD CT) easier than from Florida(???????)

Those 5 points are what you argue with me about. And I'm just not interested in arguing anymore. The HEAD FOOTBALL COACH at Syracuse has publicly said the previous recruiting didn't work and he is targeting higher players. I am all for that win or lose. Are you?

You ignore location of talent.
One of Syracuse biggest problems is that the talent within 150 miles of campus isn’t as high as most other P5 schools.

That is a major problem we face.
We aren’t stock of full of talent in our backyard.
Thus relationships and consistent winning takes time to build up.

 

[General Joe]

You ignore location of talent.
One of Syracuse biggest problems is that the talent within 150 miles of campus isn’t as high as most other P5 schools.

That is a major problem we face.
We aren’t stock of full of talent in our backyard.
Thus relationships and consistent winning takes time to build up.

Alsacs I agree!!! Thats why I am not saying Syracuse should just recruit up to Rochester and over to Buffalo lol. I agree that the 150 miles radius isnt a hot bed like Houston or Miami. Thats why I never said that.
I DO feel that there is a ton of talent in our geographical footprint NY NJ MD PA CT MA DE and you can throw in VA if you want. Tons of talented players!!!!!

 

[dasher]

LMAO!! FINALLY something we both agree on 100% ! Thats why I never mentioned it in the Akok Akok thread 2 years at the time even during the argument. Its a discipline I employ even now during the silly arguments about specific football recruits. I hear on here all the time people are "connected" and what they say is wrong ESPECIALLY on the football side. But its a forum where most are giving opinions so what. I let them live. No big deal.

But just so you dont have to throw qualifications of other people on this forum, go back and look at that thread now that you have the back story. BTW I am not the only person in this forum that knew what was happening. They just dont like arguing with "certain people or groups"

You do know that kids can be locked for a school and not admit that to a fan of another school. A fan he will likely never see again. AA was an inside deal between the people at his school and UConn. The decision was pretty much out of AA's hands. As sad and ridiculous as that is. And even worse, that sort of thing happens a lot in recruiting. As for football, we all want better recruits. And we have had a number of staffs that have been getting pretty much the same kids. It isn't that they all can't recruit. Chicken and egg. if we win, we become more attractive to the kids we really want. If we are a loser, at least in the recruits eyes, they go elsewhere. We have had blue chip kids in the Syracuse area that have left the area to go elsewhere. It's easy to just say we have to recruit better. We have to become more attractive to kids. And that means winning.

 

[General Joe]

You do know that kids can be locked for a school and not admit that to a fan of another school. A fan he will likely never see again. AA was an inside deal between the people at his school and UConn. The decision was pretty much out of AA's hands. As sad and ridiculous as that is. And even worse, that sort of thing happens a lot in recruiting. As for football, we all want better recruits. And we have had a number of staffs that have been getting pretty much the same kids. It isn't that they all can't recruit. Chicken and egg. if we win, we become more attractive to the kids we really want. If we are a loser, at least in the recruits eyes, they go elsewhere. We have had blue chip kids in the Syracuse area that have left the area to go elsewhere. It's easy to just say we have to recruit better. We have to become more attractive to kids. And that means winning.

I hear that on this forum only. It is really a simplistic thought process that if we win we will get better recruits. The opposite is probably more likely if we get better recruits we will win more. Which comes first the chicken or the egg???

 

[dasher]

I hear that on this forum only. It is really a simplistic thought process that if we win we will get better recruits. The opposite is probably more likely if we get better recruits we will win more. Which comes first the chicken or the egg???

Simplistic because it is true. Every alum of a school thinks their school has a lot to sell. After all, they were convinced to go to the school, why wouldn't anyone else be? Kids want to play in big games. If you are currently not playing in big games, it's tough to sell a kid that you will be. Most of the time, when a
school turns things around, it is because one of their recruiting classes turns out to be a lot better than anyone thought they would be. And bam. They produce a winner. And
the snowball effect takes place. I thought we should have had that happen a year ago. if you want to find fault, there it is. We haven't yet capitalized on a 10 win season like I thought we would or thought we should. However, it isn't some kind of gem of a observation to say hey, let's get better recruits.