The latest all encompassing recruiting thread

[money3189]

I am giving you a quick thought of why I think Mack Brown is killing it. It doesn't have to be a comeback showing how I am wrong and how you are right. (Its my thoughts) Mack already has great reputation in NC. He had previous success there and established relationships. Im sure many of his former players are now HS coaches in the state. NC has way better recruiting grounds ( currently has 20 4 star and over 20 high 3 stars), Mack is a national championship coach and they did better than they were suppose to last year in his first season back. I think kids see that he can still coach so they are jumping on board.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I hear that on this forum only. It is really a simplistic thought process that if we win we will get better recruits. The opposite is probably more likely if we get better recruits we will win more. Which comes first the chicken or the egg???

Perhaps that is because this is a much better forum, with more knowledgeable posters than the other forums you post on.
Also this is the football recruiting forum. If you want to discuss basketball recruiting take it to that forum.

 

[General Joe]

I am giving you quick thought of why I think Mack Brown is killing it. It doesn't have to be a comeback showing how I am wrong and how you are right. (Its my thoughts) Mack already has great reputation in NC. He had previous success there and established relationships. Im sure many of his former players are now HS coaches in the state. NC has way better recruiting grounds ( currently has 20 4 star and over 20 high 3 stars), Mack is a national championship coach and they did better than they were suppose to last year in his first season back. I think kids see that he can still coach so they are jumping on board.

Money I really like your opinion and agree with it. I think we are using different figures of speech.

You mention that the state of NC (NC recruiting base) has 20 4 star players. This is his recruiting base. Of those 20 4 stars he has closed a staggering 10. In fact every one of his 16 signed recruits are from NC or bordering states. He isnt playing in Florida or Tex or California. JUST dominating his recruiting base masterfully

We dont have 20 4 stars in NY we have 2. But if you look at the geographical recruiting base that I outline there is 35 4 or higher star recruits of which we have signed 1. So I want us to dominate recruiting in our region or base. Rooks would be number 2 IF we can close him. But could you imagine if we had 6 or 7 4 star or higher from this area yearly. Imagine how good we would be.

NC Is just one example but look also at Pitt , GT NCST etc. Dominate or atleast get top players from your base and you can augment with Florida 3 stars or whatever. P5 teams tend to have a base and dominate it in recruiting. We dont. Thats the problem. We are recruiting at a disadvantage on other peoples turf literally instead of dominating our territory.

 

[bnoro]

This Is why I dont argue with you anymore. You think sooooooo little of Syracuse AND you expect so little. After looking at your post for 2+ years I get you. Smh. I just think we are a better school and football program than you do. We look at Syracuse from two totally opposite lenses. Lets just agree to disagree on that.

I'm an alumnus of Syracuse University and attended every single football game the 4 years I was there, 2008 with GRob, and the first 3 years of Marrone. I would love to see us become the powerhouse we were in the 1990s-90s again.

I also had a very inside look at recruiting for those 4 years and understand what we were working with and the roadblocks the staff faced to get kids to come here. Dino is an upgrade recruiting-wise on every coach we've had since P.

Unless we perennially win 10 games, with our natural disadvantages, it is impossible to recruit like the 90s. I'm all for your blind optimism but you have to understand the natural disadvantages SU has and for some reason you won't listen to anyone telling you otherwise.

 

[money3189]

Money I really like your opinion and agree with it. I think we are using different figures of speech.

You mentioning the state of NC (NC recruiting base) has 20 4 star players. This is his recruiting base. Of those 20 4 stars he has closed a staggering 10. In fact every one of his 16 signed recruits are from NC or bordering states. He isnt playing in Florida or Tex or California. JUST dominating his recruiting base masterfully

We dont have 20 4 stars in NY we have 2. But if you look at the geographical recruiting base that I outline there is 35 4 or higher star recruits of which we have signed 1. So I want us to dominate recruiting in our region or base. Rooks would be number 2 IF we can close him. But could you imagine if we had 6 or 7 4 star or higher from this area yearly. Imagine how good we would be.

NC Is just one example but look also at Pitt , GT NCST etc. Dominate or atleast get top players from your base and you can augment with Florida 3 stars or whatever. P5 teams tend to have a base and dominate it in recruiting. We dont. Thats the problem. We are recruiting at a disadvantage on other peoples turf literally instead of dominating our territory.

My point for mentioning the amount of 4 star players is that he has a lot more opportunities to get more high end talent in that state. As compared to Dino not having that in NYS. I wasnt using that to discredit Mack. I think there is a lot of miscommunication with you. Maybe I dont explain my points well enough for you to understand.

We all want the best recruits so we can win more games. Isnt that obvious? Isnt that why NFL teams want more early round picks? Not sure why you keep mentioning that. We've talked about recruiting to exhaustion on here for 10 years. Lets try to dig deeper in our thoughts and figure why we struggle getting top recruits and how can we get better if when we happen to miss out on them.

Getting guys in our recruiting territory is recruiting 101 but Why do you think we dont dominate our territory? Is it because the coaches dont want to try hard? They dont think we need good players?

 

[007]

Dominate or atleast get top players from your base and you can augment with Florida 3 stars or whatever. P5 teams tend to have a base and dominate it in recruiting. We dont. Thats the problem. We are recruiting at a disadvantage on other peoples turf literally instead of dominating our territory.

I know I'll regret jumping in here again with you...

What makes you think that the staff is not trying to "dominate" the base you are suggesting? That's the problem I have with your reasoning here. It's as if you think that if the staff tried harder in the areas they "should" be concentrating in our recruiting would rise to the level you suggest.

The sheer number of offers this staff puts out in those very areas argues against you underlying premise. And, more importantly, people with DIRECT knowledge of the issues the staff faces in recruiting the type of players you suggest have tried repeatedly to explain to you WHY it is so difficult.

Your expectations of what recruiting should look like are irrelevant.

 

[General Joe]

My point for mention the amount of 4 star players is that he has a lot more opportunities to get more high end talent in that state. As compared to Dino not having that in NYS. I wasnt using that to discredit Mack. I think there a lot of miscommunication with you. Maybe I dont explain my points well enough for you to understand.

We all want the best recruits so we can win more games. Isnt that obvious? Isnt that why NFL teams want more early round picks? Not sure why you keep mentioning that. We've talked about recruiting to exhaustion on here for 10 years. Lets try to dig deeper in our thoughts and figure why we struggle getting top recruits and how can we get better if when we happen to miss out on them.

Getting guys in our recruiting territory is recruiting 101 but Why do you think we dont dominate are territory? Is it because the coaches dont want to try hard? They dont think we need good players?

I think we have covered that past the point of exhaustion. Lets try it one more way. Successful MAC coaches who get promoted to the ACC tend to do what got them there. Regardless if its scheme or recruiting. So if a MAC coach was used to getting classes ranked 80 -100 AND had a good scheme that lead to success in the MAC or AAC for that matter. They probably will do that at the new ACC team. HCSS did this at Syracuse and it was a utter failure. HCDB tried it for 4 years and had success only in 1. HCDB said "the way he was doing it didnt work from a player (recruiting) and scheme. As a result he stopped the "fast break offense" a lot last year, fired coordinators (scheme) brought in better recruiters and is focusing on higher end recruits. This is the pivot HCSS never made and that I wanted for years so I am happy.

Dominating a region- it seems that when I give you examples of teams doing it you reply with talking points punctuated with "if you knew how tough it is to recruit to Syracuse, or we have disadvantages if we win more games etc etc. If you want to have a substantive debate lets do it. But the talking points backed up only by a personal opinion is really just that.

So NC is one example of a team focusing on its territory and dominating it. I can give you plenty other examples of teams focusing on OUR area. Like Penn St. Why is it Penn ST has more recruiters focusing on the geographical area I outlined (NY NJ MD CT) and just take fliers from Florida or targeting specific players that expressed interest to THEM. They seem to do just fine in recruiting the NE. Look at Michigan same thing. They will take a 4 star player from Florida but focus on home turf and DOMINATING OUR region. Dont take my word for it just look at those teams recruiting classes and rosters. Why do you think its always Syracuse vs Mich or Penn ST for Duce, Rooks and or a Adissa Issac. Or even a Iffy Melifonwu. They are so deep into our region that they know the diamonds in the rough IN OUR REGION. Not the midwest our region. They dominate our geographical footprint while we play in it. Conversely they dont focus on Florida they play in it.

You said your a coach so you know the presence that Penn ST and Mich has in the NE recruiting. Do we exude that same presence? This was the #1 goal of Dr Gross to improve our recruiting in NE specifically NY NJ. I simply want our presence to be the same. Once we get there then we can talk about dominating a territory

 

[money3189]

I think we have covered that past the point of exhaustion. Lets try it one more way. Successful MAC coaches who get promoted to the ACC tend to do what got them there. Regardless if its scheme or recruiting. So if a MAC coach was used to getting classes ranked 80 -100 AND had a good scheme that lead to success in the MAC or AAC for that matter. They probably will do that at the new ACC team. HCSS did this at Syracuse and it was a utter failure. HCDB tried it for 4 years and had success only in 1. HCDB said "the way he was doing it didnt work from a player (recruiting) and scheme. As a result he stopped the "fast break offense" a lot last year, fired coordinators (scheme) brought in better recruiters and is focusing on higher end recruits. This is the pivot HCSS never made and that I wanted for years so I am happy.

Dominating a region- it seems that when I give you examples of teams doing it you reply with talking points punctuated with "if you knew how tough it is to recruit to Syracuse, or we have disadvantages if we win more games etc etc. If you want to have a substantive debate lets do it. But the talking points backed up only by a personal opinion is really just that.

So NC is one example of a team focusing on its territory and dominating it. I can give you plenty other examples of teams focusing on OUR area. Like Penn St. Why is it Penn ST has more recruiters focusing on the geographical area I outlined (NY NJ MD CT) and just take fliers from Florida or targeting specific players that expressed interest to THEM. They seem to do just fine in recruiting the NE. Look at Michigan same thing. They will take a 4 star player from Florida but focus on home turf and DOMINATING OUR region. Dont take my word for it just look at those teams recruiting classes and rosters. Why do you think its always Syracuse vs Mich or Penn ST for Duce, Rooks and or a Adissa Issac. Or even a Iffy Melifonwu. They are so deep into our region that they know the diamonds in the rough IN OUR REGION. Not the midwest our region. They dominate our geographical footprint while we play in it. Conversely they dont focus on Florida they play in it.

You said your a coach so you know the presence that Penn ST and Mich has in the NE recruiting. Do we exude that same presence? This was the #1 goal of Dr Gross to improve our recruiting in NE specifically NY NJ. I simply want our presence to be the same. Once we get there then we can talk about dominating a territory

lol Answer my questions and stop elaborating on topics already discussed.

 

[General Joe]

lol Answer my questions and stop elaborating on topics already discussed.

If these are the questions you refer to here are my answers.

Why do you think we dont dominate our territory?---- We obviously dont. Look at our focus in said territory as opposed to the teams like Mich and Penn St that actually dominate it. Michigan and Penn St among others prioritize the NE while people on this forum who say they are "involved in recruiting, know the coaches, have direct knowledge" blah blah blah say its not enough talent in the NE. Yeah because the talent has signed to Penn St, Mich and the high end P5. Effort and results.

Is it because the coaches dont want to try hard? ---- Of course they are doing the best they can. I have always felt Marone didn't have the system, BIG name and or contacts to jump into college and be a top recruiter. Good coach though. HCSS was a poor recruiter, without the excitement of being hired fresh, great great great guy. HCDB has the potential to be a Great head coach. He is a good schemer and has a great presence. People want him to be successful. As it pertains to recruiting, that was always the downside. Here is the thing. He gets it!! He admitted that what he was doing WONT work at Syracuse or anywhere in the ACC honestly. He is pivoting. I think he will do it. Of the guys we are targeting for 2022 A lot of them mention HIM! Not the school, weather, consecutive winning seasons etc. They mention him as a positive. He has got to hit the living rooms like Harbaugh does in the NE for these top recruits. These recruits aren't MAC recruits you can just call 2x. You gotta close. Adissa Isaac was a eye opener for Dino. We could've got him but we were sooooooo far behind when we got serious. We stayed on Duce nonstop relentlessly from beginning to end. Thats what it takes. I honestly think he will do it. Instead of targeting two 4 star recruits and 20 diamonds in the rough like we did in some previous years, he is going to flip it. Target the 35 or so 4 stars (close 10% of them) and hammer them day in and day out. We can still pick up the "roster filler" diamonds in the rough guys with 1or 2 stars and 1 or 2 P5 offers that many in a certain group love. Look at what the 2022 top targets from our backyard are saying. Look at what Duce said. Syracuse isnt the problem. Its who WAS or more likely WASN'T recruiting them. New coaches new mandate Dino will get it done!

So the talking points and excuses are just that. These 4 star kids are considering Syracuse BUT we have to hammer them every day (like we did with Duce) to close the deal. Its more likely we will land 4 star guys in our territory (Trill, Duce, Rooks, TD, ) than outside it. So I am encouraged by what I am hearing from HCDB. I don't expect it to change overnight, I am looking for incremental growth.

 

[Sudano]

We dont have 20 4 stars in NY we have 2.

Wisconsin doesn't either, Minnesota doesn't, Oregon doesn't.
And states or regions that do, have twice as many colleges there or colleges that recruit there.
Just more excuses not reasons. The entire country is the area with about 70 teams recruiting it.
Winners take all.

 

[bnoro]

Wisconsin doesn't either, Minnesota doesn't, Oregon doesn't.
And states or regions that do, have twice as many colleges there or colleges that recruit there.
Just more excuses not reasons. The entire country is the area with about 70 teams recruiting it.
Winners take all.

Wisconsin goes to a Rose Bowl like every 3 years and almost always wins their division in the B1G. Minnesota has had bad recruiting and bad football for a while up until last year. Throwing Oregon in is absolutely hilarious, like we're just supposed to ignore Phil Knight?

 

[Alsacs]

Wisconsin has been getting beat when they play Ohio State’s talent under Urban Meyer.
Since Urban went to Ohio State, Wisconsin is 0-7 vs. Ohio State.

Wisconsin has won games for a while but they don’t get the athletes to compete with top teams in the nation.

Minnesota 2019 = Syracuse 2018 let’s see them do it more than one year.

Oregon has Phil Knight pumping tens of millions of dollars into that program.
Their athletic complex for recruits is off
The charts.

 

[Sudano]

Wisconsin goes to a Rose Bowl like every 3 years and almost always wins their division in the B1G. Minnesota has had bad recruiting and bad football for a while up until last year. Throwing Oregon in is absolutely hilarious, like we're just supposed to ignore Phil Knight?

With your logic we'll never win, no one ever changes their fortunes, programs never get better, never get worse, programs never out recruit their raisin', teams that suck always suck, teams in top 15 are always in the top 15.
All things we know are not true, but only applies to Syracuse.

 

[Alsacs]

With your logic we'll never win, no one ever changes their fortunes, programs never get better, never get worse, programs never out recruit their raisin', teams that suck always suck, teams in top 15 are always in the top 15.
All things we know are not true, but only applies to Syracuse.

Comparing Syracuse to Wisconsin or Oregon doesn’t work.
If you are going to pick teams from those conferences Purdue and Oregon State work better.

Purdue won a lot of games with the right coach in Joe Tiller just like Oregon State under Mike Riley and Dennis Erickson. Those schools recruit like we do it’s hit or miss. They don’t get national recruits each year. Just like Syracuse can with the right coach.
Wisconsin and Oregon are out of our league now.

 

[bnoro]

With your logic we'll never win, no one ever changes their fortunes, programs never get better, never get worse, programs never out recruit their raisin', teams that suck always suck, teams in top 15 are always in the top 15.
All things we know are not true, but only applies to Syracuse.

You want recruiting to get better, we need to WIN. If we consistently WIN we'll get better recruits. Until both those things happen, our recruiting will stay around where it is. That's been the point all along.

But you and General Joe seem to think we can just "put in more effort" and all these kids are gonna start coming to SU. Which is totally ridiculous. Especially when there have been multiple kids we recruited for two years, who got an SEC offer, and two weeks later were committed there.

 

[money3189]

If these are the questions you refer to here are my answers.

Why do you think we dont dominate our territory?---- We obviously dont. Look at our focus in said territory as opposed to the teams like Mich and Penn St that actually dominate it. Michigan and Penn St among others prioritize the NE while people on this forum who say they are "involved in recruiting, know the coaches, have direct knowledge" blah blah blah say its not enough talent in the NE. Yeah because the talent has signed to Penn St, Mich and the high end P5. Effort and results.

Is it because the coaches dont want to try hard? ---- Of course they are doing the best they can. I have always felt Marone didn't have the system, BIG name and or contacts to jump into college and be a top recruiter. Good coach though. HCSS was a poor recruiter, without the excitement of being hired fresh, great great great guy. HCDB has the potential to be a Great head coach. He is a good schemer and has a great presence. People want him to be successful. As it pertains to recruiting, that was always the downside. Here is the thing. He gets it!! He admitted that what he was doing WONT work at Syracuse or anywhere in the ACC honestly. He is pivoting. I think he will do it. Of the guys we are targeting for 2022 A lot of them mention HIM! Not the school, weather, consecutive winning seasons etc. They mention him as a positive. He has got to hit the living rooms like Harbaugh does in the NE for these top recruits. These recruits aren't MAC recruits you can just call 2x. You gotta close. Adissa Isaac was a eye opener for Dino. We could've got him but we were sooooooo far behind when we got serious. We stayed on Duce nonstop relentlessly from beginning to end. Thats what it takes. I honestly think he will do it. Instead of targeting two 4 star recruits and 20 diamonds in the rough like we did in some previous years, he is going to flip it. Target the 35 or so 4 stars (close 10% of them) and hammer them day in and day out. We can still pick up the "roster filler" diamonds in the rough guys with 1or 2 stars and 1 or 2 P5 offers that many in a certain group love. Look at what the 2022 top targets from our backyard are saying. Look at what Duce said. Syracuse isnt the problem. Its who WAS or more likely WASN'T recruiting them. New coaches new mandate Dino will get it done!

So the talking points and excuses are just that. These 4 star kids are considering Syracuse BUT we have to hammer them every day (like we did with Duce) to close the deal. Its more likely we will land 4 star guys in our territory (Trill, Duce, Rooks, TD, ) than outside it. So I am encouraged by what I am hearing from HCDB. I don't expect it to change overnight, I am looking for incremental growth.

My man. I had to stop reading this after your first sentence. You are not answering the question. Lol. The question wasn’t about if we do or not. We all know our status in recruiting. Stop talking like you are giving us new info. Answer the first question then I will read the rest of your responses.

 

[General Joe]

You want recruiting to get better, we need to WIN. If we consistently WIN we'll get better recruits. Until both those things happen, our recruiting will stay around where it is. That's been the point all along.

But you and General Joe seem to think we can just "put in more effort" and all these kids are gonna start coming to SU. Which is totally ridiculous. Especially when there have been multiple kids we recruited for two years, who got an SEC offer, and two weeks later were committed there.

So Why did Duce Chestnut commit to Syracuse?

 

[General Joe]

Wisconsin has been getting beat when they play Ohio State’s talent under Urban Meyer.
Since Urban went to Ohio State, Wisconsin is 0-7 vs. Ohio State.

Wisconsin has won games for a while but they don’t get the athletes to compete with top teams in the nation.

Minnesota 2019 = Syracuse 2018 let’s see them do it more than one year.

Oregon has Phil Knight pumping tens of millions of dollars into that program.
Their athletic complex for recruits is off
The charts.

Minnesota 2019= Syracuse 2018- No PJ took the leap. Look at his recruiting lol. They are about to be a top 25 recruiting class. Already 4 4 stars in this cycle with a few more coming. They are in great shape exactly where we SHOULD'VE been after 2018 season

 

[bnoro]

So Why did Duce Chestnut commit to Syracuse?

We didn't work any harder than we do with most prospects. We always have one or two kids we beat out some big name schools for every year. Duce liked what we were selling him, and he may have lost some of his better offers as those schools filled up at the position. Not too different from the Wayne Morgan recruitment.

Minnesota 2019= Syracuse 2018- No PJ took the leap. Look at his recruiting lol. They are about to be a top 25 recruiting class. Already 4 4 stars in this cycle with a few more coming. They are in great shape exactly where we SHOULD'VE been after 2018 season

And you think that's because we didn't work hard after the 2018 season?

 

[City of Cuse]

I put the below in a different discussion about recruiting a while back:

"I actually think the comparison between the two schools is interesting. So let's review some facts for Minnesota football over the last decade:
4 head coaches
3 losing seasons (2 other seasons under 500 due to bowl loss)
7 bowl games (4-3) we know one of those losses!
Ranked in top 25 2 years. Before last year, 2014 was the only year this decade they have been ranked (22).
Besides 2014 and last season, they were consistently bottom 3 in their division.
Average recruiting ranking was 58ish until the past few years where it is high 30s. After their big year last year, it is currently at the 8 spot.

Please don't take this as an assault on our staff, I love Dino, but Fleck took a pretty mediocre program and was able to sell it to high level recruits. Cuse needs to do the same."


So with that said, you guys are all going in circles. You are all right! We need to recruit better now, as other schools seem to find a way to do it. We also need to win to help recruiting at a high level.

 

[General Joe]

I put the below in a different discussion about recruiting a while back:

"I actually think the comparison between the two schools is interesting. So let's review some facts for Minnesota football over the last decade:
4 head coaches
3 losing seasons (2 other seasons under 500 due to bowl loss)
7 bowl games (4-3) we know one of those losses!
Ranked in top 25 2 years. Before last year, 2014 was the only year this decade they have been ranked (22).
Besides 2014 and last season, they were consistently bottom 3 in their division.
Average recruiting ranking was 58ish until the past few years where it is high 30s. After their big year last year, it is currently at the 8 spot.

Please don't take this as an assault on our staff, I love Dino, but Fleck took a pretty mediocre program and was able to sell it to high level recruits. Cuse needs to do the same."


So with that said, you guys are all going in circles. You are all right! We need to recruit better now, as other schools seem to find a way to do it. We also need to win to help recruiting at a high level.

See this is what I like. When you actually look at other "peer" type schools like Minnesota. You see them dig themselves out of the ground. Without having multiple big winning seasons. They got a new coach he flashed one year then targeted AND closed higher recruits. And now he is getting better recruits and on a upward trajectory.

I humbly believe Syracuse can do the same. And it doesn't take a bunch of winning seasons and or the other talking points. It DOES require us to get better recruits and those are likely to come from our region.

 

[money3189]

I put the below in a different discussion about recruiting a while back:

"I actually think the comparison between the two schools is interesting. So let's review some facts for Minnesota football over the last decade:
4 head coaches
3 losing seasons (2 other seasons under 500 due to bowl loss)
7 bowl games (4-3) we know one of those losses!
Ranked in top 25 2 years. Before last year, 2014 was the only year this decade they have been ranked (22).
Besides 2014 and last season, they were consistently bottom 3 in their division.
Average recruiting ranking was 58ish until the past few years where it is high 30s. After their big year last year, it is currently at the 8 spot.

Please don't take this as an assault on our staff, I love Dino, but Fleck took a pretty mediocre program and was able to sell it to high level recruits. Cuse needs to do the same."


So with that said, you guys are all going in circles. You are all right! We need to recruit better now, as other schools seem to find a way to do it. We also need to win to help recruiting at a high level.

We were all hoping for a uptick after the 2018 season but 2019 happened. Fleck is one of the most charismatic coaching in the county so Im not surprised but I didnt expect him to do what he is doing this cycle. He does have more things going for him. His wins have gone up each of his 3 seasons. He won back to back bowl games ( beating a good Auburn team). Dino has gone 4-8, 4-8 and 5-7 after the 10 win season.

 

[General Joe]

We were all hoping for a uptick after the 2018 season but 2019 happened. Fleck is one of the most charismatic coaching in the county so Im not surprised but I didnt expect him to do what he is doing this cycle. He does have more things going for him. His wins have gone up each of his 3 seasons. He won back to back bowl games ( beating a good Auburn team). Dino has gone 4-8, 4-8 and 5-7 after the 10 win season.

So here is the "Money" question. If we had hired PJ instead of Dino, would we be better off from a recruiting perspective in your opinion?

 

[orangefog]

So here is the "Money" question. If we had hired PJ instead of Dino, would we be better of from a recruiting perspective in your opinion?

Finally, a question that will give us a definitive answer to this battle.

 

[money3189]

See this is what I like. When you actually look at other "peer" type schools like Minnesota. You see them did themselves out of the ground. Without having multiple big winning seasons. They got a new coach he flashed one year then targeted AND closed higher recruits. And now he is getting better recruits and on a upward trajectory.

I humbly believe Syracuse can do the same. And it doesn't take a bunch of winning seasons and or the other talking points. It DOES require us to get better recruits and those are likely to come from our region.

He didnt flash one year. He was great at W Mich. Recruiting well there. Mac coach of the year twice. He won 2 bowl games in 3 years at Minny. Beat a good Auburn team that was ranked top 10 most of the season. He is better recruiter and probably the better coach now. I hate to admit that.