The Missing Ingredient to a NC. | Syracusefan.com

The Missing Ingredient to a NC.

DoctorBombay

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We lack inside scoring, like we had w/ AO or RJ in the middle.
Melo has gotten better, but both he & BMK, not to mention Rak, are a zero threat to score in the blocks.
Against BE frontlines, their fumblitis will kill us unless they're WIDE OPEN for layups.
We need a back-to-the-basket, low-post threat so we can avoid those 7-minute dry spells like we saw in the 2nd half last nite.
Either KJO, or CJ, or even BT should be an outlet for a dump-down, post up, & easy 2.
That's the missing link to a NC, IMO.
Without an inside offensive presence, we're very good...but not NC great!
 

longislandcuse

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Lets hope Fab can develop that. At least a baby hook or something. Thats all AO ever really did.
 

DoctorBombay

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Thats all Fab needs, with that size.
He moves extremely well, has quick feet, & a baby-hook would make him lethal. Perhaps we'll see one before the year is out.
 

SoBeCuse

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True but it's still a long way from March. Oriakhi got a lot better throughout the season and was a solid contributor in the paint towards the end of the season. Fab/Rak/Baye will get better too.
 

fanfanclubclub

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I disagree. Melo is a solid scorer in the post. He brings the ball low too often, but he has touch, agility, and some basic moves. BMK has made huge strides with back to the basket moves. I am a huge Rick fan, but I think BMK could come pretty close to replacing his production if fed the same minutes. Xmas is already decent at sealing his defender and finishing.
 

orangehomer

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yeah i know, yukon had all kinds of solid inside scoring last year.
 

SoBeCuse

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I disagree. Melo is a solid scorer in the post. He brings the ball low too often, but he has touch, agility, and some basic moves. BMK has made huge strides with back to the basket moves. I am a huge Rick fan, but I think BMK could come pretty close to replacing his production if fed the same minutes. Xmas is already decent at sealing his defender and finishing.

Potential yes. Productivity not yet. You can't say he is a solid scorer in the paint because it's not true and he dosn't get that many opportunities. I think this season he will really be a force by the end of the year. Kid is oozing potential!
 

orangefan13

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Dissagree but fair post.

Why do you need a back to the basket big to stop dry spells?
Wouldn't someone like Hakeem Warrick have done?

If Melo would have tipped in a few more of those balls, went up alittle stronger tonight and made 1-2 more free throws(including one of those 1 and 1's) he could have had 20 points tonight.

Rak and Keita both have shown hook shots early on.

Fab hasn't shown his jumper in two games which bothers me but then again he didn't play against tall bigs the first two games. I hope we see more of his jumper though. Especially for zones.

Plus James, CJ, and Dion have shown some nice midrange shooting and I wouldn't be surprised if MCW shows some by the end of the year.

This team plays low post basketball. Teams that play low post basketball typically can spread defenses out better then ones that play high post. That will make a noticable difference in our favor.

Great teams need to hit from 2 of the mid range, three point line and high post we can hit from all three.
We had less midrange shooting as a one seed with AO a few years back. Sure we could bump our way to the low post but only Wes had the midpost game. Andy had a occasional one, but so does KJO off a pumpfake.
 

SUSScuse

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We had almost no low post scoring in 2003 from our centers. We needed them both to play defense.
 

Dick_in_MI

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We lack inside scoring, like we had w/ AO or RJ in the middle.

Two words; Craig Forth

If the other pieces are there and if Fab can do against BE defenders what he has done so far, that would be enough.

I wory more about situations like the start of the second half, and that's a team thing. I think Jimmy needs to be quicker to insert the sparkplugs off the bench in that situation
 

The General

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In 2003 we had Carmelo. Uconn had Kemba. It would help to see some post scoring.
 

SmilinBob

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In 2003 we had Carmelo. Uconn had Kemba. It would help to see some post scoring.

Yes I agree, they were guys that could break down a double team and score.

If Fab can catch a pass after someone is doubled and hurt them for doing so, he'll be doing the least he can do and SU will win. If Fab can score in the post and pass the ball to an open teammate when double teamed SU will win the national championship if all other things remain constant.
 

arbitragegls

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hmmmm...before we can flatly say no low post scoring...I would like to see a few passes go into the low post on sets that the bigs are expecting...then see if prepared to receive ball, they can score. So far this season in 3 games, I have not seen 20 passes into the post. I really think in these blowout games...leading by 20...JB should demand no shot without ball going into the low post at least once or twice...
 

SmilinBob

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hmmmm...before we can flatly say no low post scoring...I would like to see a few passes go into the low post on sets that the bigs are expecting...then see if prepared to receive ball, they can score. So far this season in 3 games, I have not seen 20 passes into the post. I really think in these blowout games...leading by 20...JB should demand no shot without ball going into the low post at least once or twice...

I'd like to see some focus on it as well but you take what the defense gives you. I believe teams in the big east will drift away from the SU centers and double the scorers until the centers prove they can score.
 

Czar

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I would vehemently disagree. We haven't done much scoring low post this year because we haven't HAD to. Our shooters have yet to have a collective bad game, someone (Waiters, Joseph, Fair, Triche) is usually stroking.
 

stuckinbig11

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We lack inside scoring, like we had w/ AO or RJ in the middle.
Melo has gotten better, but both he & BMK, not to mention Rak, are a zero threat to score in the blocks.
Against BE frontlines, their fumblitis will kill us unless they're WIDE OPEN for layups.
We need a back-to-the-basket, low-post threat so we can avoid those 7-minute dry spells like we saw in the 2nd half last nite.
Either KJO, or CJ, or even BT should be an outlet for a dump-down, post up, & easy 2.
That's the missing link to a NC, IMO.
Without an inside offensive presence, we're very good...but not NC great!
I have been saying all along that we need a coach for the big men that has actually done those inside moves and can teach them.
 

CuseCrew08

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We have a couple guys that can get into the lane and dump off the ball once our big guys defenders leave them to stop the ball. I have no problem with our bigs scoring all their points off dump offs.

Also it looks like Fab is the first guy down the court now, I think if he gets down there and gets position quick enough, he won't even need moves. Just seal, catch the ball, turn and dunk.
 

UnderHisOwnPower

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We lack inside scoring, like we had w/ AO or RJ in the middle.
Melo has gotten better, but both he & BMK, not to mention Rak, are a zero threat to score in the blocks.
Against BE frontlines, their fumblitis will kill us unless they're WIDE OPEN for layups.
We need a back-to-the-basket, low-post threat so we can avoid those 7-minute dry spells like we saw in the 2nd half last nite.
Either KJO, or CJ, or even BT should be an outlet for a dump-down, post up, & easy 2.
That's the missing link to a NC, IMO.
Without an inside offensive presence, we're very good...but not NC great!
I saw outstanding interior passing between BMK, Rak, Fab and James last night. Very encouraging, and I think this concern is overblown.
 

DoctorBombay

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hmmmm...before we can flatly say no low post scoring...I would like to see a few passes go into the low post on sets that the bigs are expecting...then see if prepared to receive ball, they can score. So far this season in 3 games, I have not seen 20 passes into the post. I really think in these blowout games...leading by 20...JB should demand no shot without ball going into the low post at least once or twice...

This^^
Against the likes of Fordham & Manhattan we were fine, & it was encouraging to see us handle these teams so easily. But we SHOULD pound them...we're that good. But against the BE & other higher caliber teams, we're gonna be in trouble without at least the THREAT of a low-post presence.
To mention UConn as an example is ludicrous, IMO, since they had a one-in-a lifetime run, w/ a great player who just caught fire. I don't see any Kemba-like players in our rotation, at least not yet. In 2003, our scorers down low we're Melo & Hak, so problem solved.
Lets see a few set plays & clear outs for the bigs- & lets see how they react to double-teams, etc. Just because we've shot well & haven't needed the bigs to score, doesn't mean it won't be needed in the future. Against Pitt, UConn, LVille, Marquette, even Florida in a coupla weeks, we'll face teams that play tough D but score as well.
I just don't wanna see multiple possessions of KJO, Dion, or Scoop forcing up ill-advised shots because we can't score from in-close. Its gonna come up...bank on it.
 

Garbs

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We lack inside scoring, like we had w/ AO or RJ in the middle.
Melo has gotten better, but both he & BMK, not to mention Rak, are a zero threat to score in the blocks.
Against BE frontlines, their fumblitis will kill us unless they're WIDE OPEN for layups.
We need a back-to-the-basket, low-post threat so we can avoid those 7-minute dry spells like we saw in the 2nd half last nite.
Either KJO, or CJ, or even BT should be an outlet for a dump-down, post up, & easy 2.
That's the missing link to a NC, IMO.
Without an inside offensive presence, we're very good...but not NC great!
yea because we won so many championships with those guys(not a knock on them but on your argument)

who was are inside scorer in '03?
 

orangefan13

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I saw outstanding interior passing between BMK, Rak, Fab and James last night. Very encouraging, and I think this concern is overblown.

+1. As I said before hadFab gone up stronger/faster, he would have put up nearly 20 points yesterday. I don't think he has had anyone to show him that yet.

No need to miss the mark and put unessassary pressure on Fab. We are to deep and balenced to do so. Just let him work hard in practice.

It is possible Fab is going to get much better throughout the year which is a SCARY thought. Once Fab finds out how to go up stronger and faster, works on his shot alittle more, and keeps working on his speed hes going to be even better this year. And the scary thing is right now hes averaging about 10PPG and 6.5 boards.
 

orangefan13

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yea because we won so many championships with those guys(not a knock on them but on your argument)

who was are inside scorer in '03?

Hakim was and he was in the midpost more. Melo didn't get his spots as low in the post as he does is in the NBA. He was on the perimeter alittle more.
 

Garbs

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Hakim was and he was in the midpost more. Melo didn't get his spots as low in the post as he does is in the NBA. He was on the perimeter alittle more.
exactly, my point is we didn't get points from the centers, and like in 03 we got plenty of points from melo and warrick, we will get plenty from fair and joseph
 

senorpalmer

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The main ingredient missing for a NC is the elite guy who can dominate a game offensively, and when you look at the best teams in the history of the the program (at least in modern times) those teams had a dynamic forward who can score around the basket (though not necessarily restricted to being a low-post player). The folks who brought up 03 make a good point though Hak and Melo did score AROUND the basket; Hak refined his post skills in the latter half of his career, and Melo pretty much scored in every way a player can, he did not make his living in one aspect or another.

Looking at this Syracuse team, there's plenty to like, but I'm not sure if it has that dynamic forward, or player period, who is a real big dog that strikes fear into opponents and can carry a team when needed.
 

orangefan13

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The missing ingredient to a nation title is this team playing together. Being efficient and consistant going on a run as the game progresses. IMO, If they learn that this year they will be unstoppable.

There is no reason JB should be training them for close games at this point in the season. We can be good enough to blow every team not named Florida and maybe NC State out before Big East play.
 

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