The road ahead | Syracusefan.com

The road ahead

T

TheCurtain

Guest
To paraphrase Wall Street, a correction was overdue, but that felt like the 2008 meltdown. Inevitable. I think many were hoping that they could use a game like BC to snap out of their funk, but hope is not a good leg to stand on. History, both recent and longer term, is the best barometer going forward.

The offensive dysfunction is well documented, but I think many are quick to dismiss this year’s defensive shortcomings. The zone is bipolar – the back line is doing well denying points in the paint when there is a breakdown, but the play up top has been weak from day one. Passing lanes are not being contested and opposing guards are penetrating at will. When this happens Cooney and Ennis chase after the dribble penetration (why?) and leave shooters open on kick-outs at an alarming rate. The 3FG% defense of late is atrocious. How often is Ennis going underneath the screen leaving a shooter wide open? MCW and Triche make these guys look like amateurs. This is not last year’s defense and people need to stop saying the defense is great.

Offensively we always look better in November and December when the competition is weaker and, more importantly, teams don’t have enough tape to identify individual and team liabilities. Those flaws are out there and we’re not adjusting well. Boeheim talks about getting better as the postseason approaches but how is that possible when you’re playing 5 ½? Sit CJ for a minute when he fails to pass out of a double team. Sometimes these guys need a pattern interrupt. If Roberson is only going to play 3 minutes every other game, then why even bother?

Ennis. He’s a great point guard if you’re a Big Ten team. I’m not sure if he’s solely responsible for the tempo, but it starts with him. When your team struggles in the half court the last thing you need is fewer possessions. For comparison’s sake, the 11-12 team that went 30-1 averaged what? 20+ ppg off fast breaks? That’s a high water mark, but it’s the difference between rock fights in the 50s and going on a 15-0 run so the other team can’t play stall ball. I don’t have statistics, but I speculate that our offensive rebounding is starting to suffer because coaches are realizing they don’t have to send 2 guys back the other way. This is the antithesis of Syracuse basketball. Yes, we won 25 games and it may never happen again in our lifetime, but I miss the fact that we don’t strike fear in anyone. If I’m a 15 or 16-seed I pray for Syracuse, and who can blame them? Let’s hope the discussion in April is whether Ennis will turn down being a lottery pick because that will mean his play will have picked up from where it is now. 0 turnovers is great, but empty trips in the half-court are glorified turnovers as well.

Those who insist this is a “great team” should wait and see how these next few games play out. Favorable scheduling and a huge helping of luck does not equate to greatness. No team should be anointed anything until the season is over anyway. But consider this, of all the really good SU teams of seasons past, did they ever have a loss as radioactive as this one? The Rutgers debacle in 03 was bad, but 6-19 is in a completely different stratosphere. It’s a huge red flag.

Plenty of games to be played, and I’d hate to be limping into Greensboro, but that’s the script that’s sitting on my desk. It's not an over-reaction. I suspect this team needs to be slapped up and humbled a bit more before they take a look in the mirror.

Next up - Duke. Good thing Coach K is too proud to pack in their defense and will actually play into SU's hands. SU will score and look functional again on offense (at least for one game), but I have no confidence in our guards tagging their shooters.
 
i agree. i usually dont overreact to losses. i was absolutely fine when it looked like we were losing at pitt. but last nite was really really bad and scares the c.rap out of me considering out next 3 games.
 
Excellent post Curtain, love the pattern interrupt thought. I also think CJ should have sat for a while at some point, definitely needed some kind of reboot.
 
I said from our early cupcake games (some of them didn't seem like it though, remember how close some of those were?), Ennis and Cooney had a lot of work to do to improve at the top of zone, particularly when compared to Triche and MCW.

Some disputed this or thought I was being too overly critical/incorrect in my analysis. I wasn't wrong. The defense at the top of the zone has been incredibly average, recently (I say this without stats, just on what I can see while watching the game).

What makes a zone work is not allowing dribble penetration. The second that happens, it's a massive scramble.
 
after reading that post if you didn;t know better you would think we were 1-25 instead of 25-1

our defense isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be. in fact our defense is the main reason we won 25 straight games. you point out the fact that Ennis goes under ball screens at the top of the zone. you understand all of that stuff is scouting reports right? if it was a shooter on top Ennis wouldn't be going underneath. Before every game you have a list of players you need to go over screens for, and go under, it's not like it's up to Ennis and he is choosing to go underneath screens. That type of stuff is Boheim's game planning. Same thing with the deciding to cover the guy at the high post. if he is a shooter rak will be on him, if he can't shoot rak plays back.
 
I said from our early cupcake games (some of them didn't seem like it though, remember how close some of those were?), Ennis and Cooney had a lot of work to do to improve at the top of zone, particularly when compared to Triche and MCW.

Some disputed this or thought I was being too overly critical/incorrect in my analysis. I wasn't wrong. The defense at the top of the zone has been incredibly average, recently (I say this without stats, just on what I can see while watching the game).

What makes a zone work is not allowing dribble penetration. The second that happens, it's a massive scramble.

A huge part of the zone last year was MCW's wingspan made dribble penetration very difficult. The guy looks like a Praying Mantis. Now we have two guys who are barely over 6'.
 
I said from our early cupcake games (some of them didn't seem like it though, remember how close some of those were?), Ennis and Cooney had a lot of work to do to improve at the top of zone, particularly when compared to Triche and MCW.

Some disputed this or thought I was being too overly critical/incorrect in my analysis. I wasn't wrong. The defense at the top of the zone has been incredibly average, recently (I say this without stats, just on what I can see while watching the game).

What makes a zone work is not allowing dribble penetration. The second that happens, it's a massive scramble.

i definitely agree with this. MCW and Triche were the best duo we have ever had at the top of the zone. they were going to be tough to match to begin with. but for accuracy's sake the OP's point about Ennis going under screens is just plain wrong.
 
Last edited:
TheCurtain said:
To paraphrase Wall Street, a correction was overdue, but that felt like the 2008 meltdown. Inevitable. I think many were hoping that they could use a game like BC to snap out of their funk, but hope is not a good leg to stand on. History, both recent and longer term, is the best barometer going forward. The offensive dysfunction is well documented, but I think many are quick to dismiss this year’s defensive shortcomings. The zone is bipolar – the back line is doing well denying points in the paint when there is a breakdown, but the play up top has been weak from day one. Passing lanes are not being contested and opposing guards are penetrating at will. When this happens Cooney and Ennis chase after the dribble penetration (why?) and leave shooters open on kick-outs at an alarming rate. The 3FG% defense of late is atrocious. How often is Ennis going underneath the screen leaving a shooter wide open? MCW and Triche make these guys look like amateurs. This is not last year’s defense and people need to stop saying the defense is great. Offensively we always look better in November and December when the competition is weaker and, more importantly, teams don’t have enough tape to identify individual and team liabilities. Those flaws are out there and we’re not adjusting well. Boeheim talks about getting better as the postseason approaches but how is that possible when you’re playing 5 ½? Sit CJ for a minute when he fails to pass out of a double team. Sometimes these guys need a pattern interrupt. If Roberson is only going to play 3 minutes every other game, then why even bother? Ennis. He’s a great point guard if you’re a Big Ten team. I’m not sure if he’s solely responsible for the tempo, but it starts with him. When your team struggles in the half court the last thing you need is fewer possessions. For comparison’s sake, the 11-12 team that went 30-1 averaged what? 20+ ppg off fast breaks? That’s a high water mark, but it’s the difference between rock fights in the 50s and going on a 15-0 run so the other team can’t play stall ball. I don’t have statistics, but I speculate that our offensive rebounding is starting to suffer because coaches are realizing they don’t have to send 2 guys back the other way. This is the antithesis of Syracuse basketball. Yes, we won 25 games and it may never happen again in our lifetime, but I miss the fact that we don’t strike fear in anyone. If I’m a 15 or 16-seed I pray for Syracuse, and who can blame them? Let’s hope the discussion in April is whether Ennis will turn down being a lottery pick because that will mean his play will have picked up from where it is now. 0 turnovers is great, but empty trips in the half-court are glorified turnovers as well. Those who insist this is a “great team” should wait and see how these next few games play out. Favorable scheduling and a huge helping of luck does not equate to greatness. No team should be anointed anything until the season is over anyway. But consider this, of all the really good SU teams of seasons past, did they ever have a loss as radioactive as this one? The Rutgers debacle in 03 was bad, but 6-19 is in a completely different stratosphere. It’s a huge red flag. Plenty of games to be played, and I’d hate to be limping into Greensboro, but that’s the script that’s sitting on my desk. It's not an over-reaction. I suspect this team needs to be slapped up and humbled a bit more before they take a look in the mirror. Next up - Duke. Good thing Coach K is too proud to pack in their defense and will actually play into SU's hands. SU will score and look functional again on offense (at least for one game), but I have no confidence in our guards tagging their shooters.

1. Ennis is a great ACC point guard. He is showing moments of being a freshman. We went 25-0 playing whatever tempo we needed to win. We played one game where that was off.

2. I'm not sure you can label a team off to the best start in school history as anything other than great. Comparing relative losses is an exercise in futility.

3. I think they've been humbled.

4. Defensively - I agree 100%. Cooney and Ennis are missing the subtle way teams are attacking us. It started with Duke. K broke down the zone in a way that hasn't been explored fully. BC played the same script to get open looks. Time for HOF tweaks, JB.
 
I want to be clear- I am not saying that our guards' D has been poor all around all year, that is blatantly incorrect (they are 1/2 in the league in steals, I believe).

What hurt us vs Duke was the dribble drive, causing our guards to try to recover and turn their backs to the top of the key where the ball handler would kick it back out to an open three.

Keep an eye for that this Saturday.

One of the best passes in bball is passing the ball directly back to where it came from (personal experience). It might sound strange, but it gets the defender to turn 180 degrees.
 
i definitely agree with this. MCW and Triche were the best duo we have ever had at the top of the zone. they were going to be tough to match to begin with. but for accuracy's sake the OP's point about Ennis going under screens is just plain inaccurate.

I'm not sure it's inaccurate. I've seen Ennis fight over screens or go under. JB has lit into him periodically when not fighting over screens when that was obviously the game plan.
 
I'm not sure it's inaccurate. I've seen Ennis fight over screens or go under. JB has lit into him periodically when not fighting over screens when that was obviously the game plan.
When you're gassed, going under a screen requires less effort.
 
When you're gassed, going under a screen requires less effort.

I'm sorry this is wrong. You don't think there are scouting reports? I guarantee JB during walk throughs, and preparation that this is covered. you practice guarding the other teams offensive sets in the practices before hand. this stuff is addressed i guarantee you. this isn;t Ennis decision. the way screens are covered are very detailed. there are many ways to cover ball screens, and off the ball screens. there are techniques that go along with all of them
 
I'm not sure it's inaccurate. I've seen Ennis fight over screens or go under. JB has lit into him periodically when not fighting over screens when that was obviously the game plan.

he fights over, or goes under pending on the scouting report for that player.
 
I'm sorry this is wrong. You don't think there are scouting reports? I guarantee JB during walk throughs, and preparation that this is covered. you practice guarding the other teams offensive sets in the practices before hand. this stuff is addressed i guarantee you. this isn;t Ennis decision


He's saying that when a player like Ennis gets tired, they tend to go under screens rather than putting out the effort to fight over them.
 
He's saying that when a player like Ennis gets tired, they tend to go under screens rather than putting out the effort to fight over them.

i know what he is saying, it's just not right. how to cover screens are broken down in pretty great detail. there are many different techniques and ways to cover them. at the college level i guarantee you this is game planned for. i know if i was doing them where i played that Syracuse definitely is. If Ennis is going under ball screens when he should be going over JB would have his head
 
i know what he is saying, it's just not right. how to cover screens are broken down in pretty great detail. there are many different techniques and ways to cover them. at the college level i guarantee you this is game planned for. i know if i was doing them where i played that Syracuse definitely is. If Ennis is going under ball screens when he should be going over JB would have his head

Yeah, I follow you too. I also realize there is a game plan to go under or over them... but when fatigue plays a role, you don't think there's a tendency to go under screens sometimes?
 
Yeah, I follow you too. I also realize there is a game plan to go under or over them... but when fatigue plays a role, you don't think there's a tendency to go under screens sometimes?

it's definitely easier, i just couldn't see it happening all that often, especially with a heady player like Ennis. plus I think we would see Boheim chewing a hole in him, and certainly if it costs us a 3. The OP made it seem like it was Ennis decision alone to play it that way and was leading to opponents hitting a high 3 point % because of it
 
it's definitely easier, i just couldn't see it happening all that often, especially with a heady player like Ennis. plus I think we would see Boheim chewing a hole in him, and certainly if it costs us a 3. The OP made it seem like it was Ennis decision alone to play it that way and was leading to opponents hitting a high 3 point % because of it

I agree but I have seen it happen a few times. Part of the problem is also even when our guards try to fight over screens sometimes the fact that they are moving screens makes it very difficult.
 
I agree but I have seen it happen a few times. Part of the problem is also even when our guards try to fight over screens sometimes the fact that they are moving screens makes it very difficult.

i actually think that's a good way to attack the zone. i am surprised more teams don't try to screen the top of the zone with both the picker, and the ball handler being good shooters. it occupies 2 defenders in a relatively close space, and forces other help defenders to be aware of the roller/flare
 

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