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the star system

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upperdeck

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is this system to rate kids where they are now or where they will be?

Pretty clear listening to Dino he is trying to find the best kids who can be what they want in yr 2-3-4 which is vastly different than what most of the recruiting sites are trying to do.
 
Other than a good % of the top blue chip, 5* talent in the rankings, most recruits and their respective rankings are a complete crap-shoot.

Fitting into a system is WAY more important than anything. The top guys typically have elite athletic abilities that will legit work anywhere, but most kids need to play in a system that plays to their skill set.

Our S&C guys have done a great job with the kids when they get on campus. I'm excited to see what these current recruits look like in 2-3 years.
 
Rocco said:
Other than a good % of the top blue chip, 5* talent in the rankings, most recruits and their respective rankings are a complete crap-shoot.

Fitting into a system is WAY more important than anything. The top guys typically have elite athletic abilities that will legit work anywhere, but most kids need to play in a system that plays to their skill set.

Our S&C guys have done a great job with the kids when they get on campus. I'm excited to see what these current recruits look like in 2-3 years.
Expand...
And I think that some 4* guys may be the ones that developed early but have maxed out or are close to it. It's important that coaches know how to spot guys that still have room to grow physically or athletes that can develop their skill set.
 
upperdeck said:
is this system to rate kids where they are now or where they will be?

Pretty clear listening to Dino he is trying to find the best kids who can be what they want in yr 2-3-4 which is vastly different than what most of the recruiting sites are trying to do.
Expand...
 
PAcuse said:
How did that work out for FSU this year...
Expand...
Agree with you 100%. How has it worked for Florida State the last two years, Miami this year? It's more about how you coach and develop the player. A talented high school player will never improve without good coaching and the right physical development. I trust Coach Babers and his staff to recognize talent and develop it to it's maximum potential. Go Orange!!!!!
 
Let's not forget that kids that fit winning coaches' systems tend to get ratings boosts, too. Thus, when Saban Meyers and Swinney recognize talent for their systems' the kids are rated high, and quickly. There is circular reasoning to the process and most of the people performing the ratings are not the talent scouts they believe themselves to be.

Elite coaches recognize talent that works in their system. They don't waste time with kids that will fill the needs of their team. Elite coaches on their way up are able to recognize talent and develop talent. As their teams get better, they can recruit better talent (let's be honest, kids want to win, too).

HCDB has the system, the recognition of who fits his system and can win at the highest level. He will recruit a lot of talent. We are only part way up the hill HCDB has SU climbing, not near the top. His recruits in the next cycle will receive much more recognition.
 
Our recent DB recruits might as well be 4 and 5 stars from my angle.

I think we have pretty good depth and noone can get complacent there are always interesting guys redshirting ready to challenge.

We need to sign some good young talent for the front 7 but the rest of the roster looks very good going forward.
 
I am no expert so I look at who offered our recruits and I look at their height and weight. From those indicators, for most positions, I can tell we are doing vastly better than two years ago. Running backs and athletes are a little different for the height/weight considerations.
 
upperdeck said:
is this system to rate kids where they are now or where they will be?

Pretty clear listening to Dino he is trying to find the best kids who can be what they want in yr 2-3-4 which is vastly different than what most of the recruiting sites are trying to do.
Expand...
Rocco said:
Other than a good % of the top blue chip, 5* talent in the rankings, most recruits and their respective rankings are a complete crap-shoot.

Fitting into a system is WAY more important than anything. The top guys typically have elite athletic abilities that will legit work anywhere, but most kids need to play in a system that plays to their skill set.

Our S&C guys have done a great job with the kids when they get on campus. I'm excited to see what these current recruits look like in 2-3 years.
Expand...
HOFCeluck said:
Yeah cool. Give me a team of four and five star talent and it’ll probably be pretty good.
Expand...

I can't figure out why people get so hung up on the system one way or another. We've been ranked horribly the past few years and put no one in the pros (which would suggest the rankings were roughly accurate). But then we just finished second in the tougher of the two divisions and were pretty damn close to an incredibly special season (Clemson could have happened and you could argue that Pitt should have happened) with that same talent.

The point is there are so many variables that the only way the rankings make much sense (outside the top 100 or 200 prospects) is if they essentially rank the power programs in the top 15 and then some of the hotter programs or staffs with reputations as top recruiters in the next 15 spots.

So at the end of the day, we will get ranked once we put together a couple really good seasons. It won't mean anything either way. Yes, of course if we were hammering out classes full of five stars and high-4 stars, that would be great. But we have never done that so where we are ranked is far less important than what type of athletes we are getting, what type of S&C program we have in place, what type of coaching we have, how many guys stay with the program for 3-4 years ...

But the bottom line is always the same -- we need good athletes. We might have to develop them, but we just need athletes and we appear to have that. Saying we'd like to have 5-stars is fine, but pointless.
 
I definitely feel like some here discount the impact of 4 & 5 Stars, because we don’t get many (or any 5*).

I’ll take those guys any day and you all should too.

Miami has been a QB away from doing damage. Rosier has really killed that team.

That being said, I trust Dino and I really trust our S&C program. 3* recruits can be Andre Cisco’s or never see the field. I’d put my money on this staff taking these guys closer to the level of a Cisco than a recruit that doesn’t pan out.
 
One interesting thing this year that I haven't seen prior is that the staff referenced stars and player rankings at ESPN 300 in certain recruit videos they released on signing day. By doing that the staff/program gives the "star system" some credibility unless it's just a marketing angle.

Bottom line is altho star rankings are not equal to wins on the field there is a direct correlation with recruiting rankings and higher ranked programs. Dino has said himself he wants to get a seat at the table with more talented players (i.e. 4 and 5 stars)

We broke the ranking model this year for a variety of reasons showing it can be done. Seeing if we can outperform our talent on a consistent basis based on scheme is all of our hope.
 
Rocco said:
Other than a good % of the top blue chip, 5* talent in the rankings, most recruits and their respective rankings are a complete crap-shoot.

Fitting into a system is WAY more important than anything. The top guys typically have elite athletic abilities that will legit work anywhere, but most kids need to play in a system that plays to their skill set.

Our S&C guys have done a great job with the kids when they get on campus. I'm excited to see what these current recruits look like in 2-3 years.
Expand...

IIRC, you were the guy who had the inside story on Hemphill-Mapps in the recruiting forum when there was rumour he was coming here. Whatever happened there? Still a chance? Appreciate the general story if you cant provide details.

Sorry OT just wondering.
 
my sense is 4-5 stars give you a shot at a higher end, less misses on athletism, and better chance to play early. less stars usually means you have to more accurate and usually allow more time to develop.

as he says they need more depth, more depth means you can give some kids more time to find their way.

we dont need 7-8 Fr to help every year, but 1-3 would be nice.
 
Louie and Bouie said:
IIRC, you were the guy who had the inside story on Hemphill-Mapps in the recruiting forum when there was rumour he was coming here. Whatever happened there? Still a chance? Appreciate the general story if you cant provide details.

Sorry OT just wondering.
Expand...

Definitely interested to see if anyone has a scoop on this.
 
HtownOrange said:
Let's not forget that kids that fit winning coaches' systems tend to get ratings boosts, too. Thus, when Saban Meyers and Swinney recognize talent for their systems' the kids are rated high, and quickly. There is circular reasoning to the process and most of the people performing the ratings are not the talent scouts they believe themselves to be.

Elite coaches recognize talent that works in their system. They don't waste time with kids that will fill the needs of their team. Elite coaches on their way up are able to recognize talent and develop talent. As their teams get better, they can recruit better talent (let's be honest, kids want to win, too).

HCDB has the system, the recognition of who fits his system and can win at the highest level. He will recruit a lot of talent. We are only part way up the hill HCDB has SU climbing, not near the top. His recruits in the next cycle will receive much more recognition.
Expand...

This is so true and something that I think gets misunderstood by so many fans. Coaches don't recruit based on rankings, rankings are based on who is recruiting who.

That's why when all of a sudden you see Saban, Dabo, Urban or Coach K, Calipari, etc. offer a kid and they jump from a relatively unknown 3 star to a high 4 star or higher it's because recruiting sites know that these guys are worlds better at evaluating talent than they are. The best coaches don't pay attention or particularly care about how ESPN or 2for7 have kids ranked because they have their own recruiting boards that they value infinitely more.
 
I feel like there was a story about Miami at the end of the Coker era, where the staff was actively using Rovals rankings to help guide their recruiting. And then they fell off a cliff.
 
Rivals does a point system so they can muck with the ratings that way to. Makes no sense that Andrew Tuazama was rated lower this year than last year and they also don't account for Jawhar Jordan - when and if they do he should have the same rating as last year.

Then a kid like Tisdale who has 5 or 6 power 5 offers is a low 2 star. It makes no sense really. It's fun for the fans to win paper battles I guess. The one problem I have with it is negative public perception and it's basically a corrupt system as bcubs points out.

The coaches reference it because the fans worship it. In reality they don't give a rats @ss about it, they sure don't recruit because of it.
 
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