The truth about Trevor

[Flacusian]

Right up front I have to say that I've been a huge fan of Trevor Cooney from the day he committed to play for Syracuse and instantly bought into the notion of a bigger, faster, GMAC was coming to town. I've also supported him when he has been criticized by many people some of whom frequent this forum.

The meme has been that last season Trevor was victimized by the fact he was essentially the only 3 point shooter we had and anyone who watched the games saw a kid who was run ragged trying to get open and to get a screen allowing for an open shot. He played a ton of minutes and was covered so closely is looked like someone was chasing him for having murdered someone in their family. He was bumped, pushed, shoved and by seasons end appeared to be exhausted. I suppose all of that is true and as the season wore on even when Trevor managed to get a shot off it looked like it was rushed, often off balance, and with little or no lift from tired legs.

So now it's a new year and a different team which has been advertised as having more shooters (five I've been told) and as such, Trevor would benefit from the additional shooters and opposing teams not being able to concentrate so much on Cooney would create more open looks for him. Now it's early... real early and we don't have a reliable sample size, but what my eyes tell me is that Trevor looks pretty much like the same player as last year when he puts up a shot. It almost seems like he's been rushed so much and that the window of opportunity for putting up a shot has been so minuscule that he has become habituated to rushing his shots.

The stats don't lie so I decided to take a look at Trevor's 3 pt shooting since he arrived here

In 2011 -2012 he did not compile any stats
In 2012- 2013 28 for 105 = .267
In 2013- 2014 90 for 340 = .375
In 2014- 2015 71 for 230 = .309
===============================
Totals 189 for 575 = .329

From 2012 to 2013 James Southerland and Brandon Triche were on the team and Southerland was ostensibly was Syracuse's biggest 3 point weapon/ specialist.

Southerland 2012 -13 84 for 211 = .398 and was .370 for Career
Triche 2012-13 49 for 170 = .288 and was .333 for Career

And just for good measure, GMAC's high water mark was .389 his sophomore season and for career he was .354

2013-14 was by far Cooney's best season for 3 pt. shooting and the cast he had around him was Christmas, Fair, Grant, and Ennis for starters and from the bench was Baye, Buss, BJ , Silent, and Roberson. The record shows that Ennis put up 30 for 85 or .353 so he was a legitimate threat and an option and Silent was 15 for 43 / .349. So it would appear that when Cooney has at least some other players around him who are capable of making a 3 he benefits from it.

GMAC'shigh water mark was his sophomore season and his percentage decreased in each of the following 2 seasons. He was also victimized by the fact he had become the teams primary offensive weapon and other teams were pretty much playing in the same pair of shorts he was during games.

Looking at the numbers Cooney is pretty much in the middle of the pack as far as efficiency as a 3 point shooter. That means... he is AVERAGE. At least during games he is average. This years team would certainly benefit if he were to be a bit better than average but my concern is that his point shot has been fundamentally changed as a result of the manner in which he has been forced to play and shoot in the past season. His shooting and shot against Lehigh did not look good and the defenders he will face as the season progresses will undoubtedly get much better. If this years team is going to be successful it is abundantly apparent that they will need to shoot the ball well from the perimeter and we will need Trevor to shoot more like he did as a sophomore than he did as a Jr. Trevor could actually contribute more if he were able to finish more effectively when he takes it to the basket and by drawing fouls when doing so. The numbers don't lie and I don't think we can rely on Trevor to significantly raise his 3 point shooting efficiency. I'd be surprised if he can finish around .360 for the season and a lot of it will depend on how well Gbinije, Malachi, and Kaleb Joseph do so as to provide Trevor with the time to get good looks and the time to get his shot off.

 

[Brooky03]

I'll take 3-9 in the first game of the season. It's too early to tell how he'll perform this year, but 3-9 isn't a bad start, or a particularly good start. The thing that worries me is the fact that Cooney's shooting might be more predicated on having a reliable PG who can set up the offense and distribute than it is on having shooters around him. I'm going to throw away his Freshman stats since he basically didn't play and it's tough to get in a rhythm in like 5 mpg. Sophomore year, he had Ennis getting him the ball. Junior year, he had Joseph. I think that's as far as we need to drill down.

Will G be good enough as a distributor at PG to bring back Ennis-level Cooney? I hope so, but I'm cautiously optimistic. It looks like the passing will be more of a team effort this year, so let's hope Malachi and G can get Cooney the ball in good spots. He did have open looks last night, which might be a good omen of things to come. As Malachi draws more and more attention, G's and Cooney's games should improve. Or teams could focus on the 5th year seniors and let Malachi drop 20 on them. I'm good with either.

 

[Flacusian]

I'll take 3-9 in the first game of the season. It's too early to tell how he'll perform this year, but 3-9 isn't a bad start, or a particularly good start. The thing that worries me is the fact that Cooney's shooting might be more predicated on having a reliable PG who can set up the offense and distribute than it is on having shooters around him. I'm going to throw away his Freshman stats since he basically didn't play and it's tough to get in a rhythm in like 5 mpg. Sophomore year, he had Ennis getting him the ball. Junior year, he had Joseph. I think that's as far as we need to drill down.

Will G be good enough as a distributor at PG to bring back Ennis-level Cooney? I hope so, but I'm cautiously optimistic. It looks like the passing will be more of a team effort this year, so let's hope Malachi and G can get Cooney the ball in good spots. He did have open looks last night, which might be a good omen of things to come. As Malachi draws more and more attention, G's and Cooney's games should improve. Or teams could focus on the 5th year seniors and let Malachi drop 20 on them. I'm good with either.

Pretty much the way I see it as well.

 

[tbonezone]

trevor came here as a highly touted 3 point shooter. hasn't really panned out to date.
malachi comes here as a highly touted 3 point shooter. so far so good. that's a good thing.

 

[jekelish]

I swear, I think he really just overthinks his shot. Like, he looks so mechanical and like he's reminding himself what his form is supposed to look like. When you think about your form while shooting, it goes to crap.

Watch Malachi's release in comparison to Trevor's. It's so much smoother and easier. Trevor looks like he's over-emphasizing every movement in his jumper.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Trevor is streaky. My hope is that with the roster this year we can ride the hot streaks where he hits 5-8 threes on 12 shots and then bring in someone else on the 2 for 12 nights.

 

[br801]

Trevor is streaky. My hope is that with the roster this year we can ride the hot streaks where he hits 5-8 threes on 12 shots and then bring in someone else on the 2 for 12 nights.

Volume 3-point shooters are streaky at any level of the game. Not sure if TC is "streakier" than most, but I suspect not.

 

[bballbeadle]

Okay, did you guys see this article that describes his obsessive/compulsive working ethic that he has maintained since he was in elementary school? He pushes himself to the point of exhaustion. Theoretically, he's going to take it easier this year and not be in the gym all the time, shooting 3's and building muscle. I am paraphrasing, but he said that if he is not exhausted and aching, he feels like he hasn't worked hard enough. So, how is he going to change that mindset?

I think this came out while I was in Indonesia but a friend sent it to me this week.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...o_take_more_time_off.html#incart_email_mobile

 

[jdubs30]

Anyone remember Trevor in Chapel Hill last year in the 1st half? Or vs. Florida State in the Dome?

Some "3pt shooters" are just streaky, and that's who is. Unfortunately I don't think he's a 39% from the 3 for the year type guy. He's more likely to give you more 2/8 games than not, with a few 7/10 games sprinkled in. If people respect his 3pt shot it will open up things for others from deep and himself on the drive. But at this point to expect Cooney to be a consistent 3pt shooter, I think taht ship has sailed, it's not who he is.

Mal looks like a player who you can reasonably expect him to shoot around 40% from deep for the year and consistently make 3-4 3's a game without firing up 11 or 12 (although he will have those games)

 

[kcsu]

He is not a very good shooter. At this point i dont think there is much debate about that. Streaky yes good solid shooter no.

 

[hoopsupstate]

It's amazing that all the shooting experts have already written Trevor off as only an average shooter after one game. He's been our best shooter over the past three years and it hasn't even been close. I'll say a JB and say we wouldn't have won 10 --- games the last two years without Trevor. People need to give this a rest. I'll take a team of Trevor's any day of the week.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't think he's changed. I think that's just how he shoots.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

His shot has just never looked consistent to me. Either his hands look weird, or he's fading to one side or the other, or forward or back... And seemingly always contested.

I look at a guy like JJ Redick and see what I wish Trevor had become. A guy who always seems to have more space. A guy who is probably less 'athletic,' but uses his athleticism more efficiently. Never seems rushed or harried, while Trevor seems like his hair is on fire. Redick is "mechanical" in a way that is graceful. He shoots the same way every time, without, seemingly, any need to add 'bling' to his shot. He's not trying to make his shot any more dramatic or highlight-worthy than it needs to be. Trevor seems like every shot is a heat check: the kind of shot you take when you feel like you're in the zone or some such.

But, hey, wasn't Gmac like that, as well? Volume guys who are as likely to thrill as frustrate.

Mal, though, seems to have the same stroke, whether it's a standstill or it's a fall-away. The top half is the same either way. That bodes well, except you can still see that immature tendency to want to make a shot a bit more 'fancy' than is necessary when he feels hot. With him, though, he's got legit size. Reminds me of JR Smith, in a way, but JR has quicker 'genius hands,' and could get away with more, preparation-wise.

I hope JB is going to be flexible with Trevor's minutes this year. Not keep him out here when he's not On, as we have Mal and Lydon and an improved shooting, former starter guard off the bench. Oh, and Howard. Options that should be better than letting Trevor go 'oh' for- for a full game.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Okay, did you guys see this article that describes his obsessive/compulsive working ethic that he has maintained since he was in elementary school? He pushes himself to the point of exhaustion. Theoretically, he's going to take it easier this year and not be in the gym all the time, shooting 3's and building muscle. I am paraphrasing, but he said that if he is not exhausted and aching, he feels like he hasn't worked hard enough. So, how is he going to change that mindset?

I think this came out while I was in Indonesia but a friend sent it to me this week.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...o_take_more_time_off.html#incart_email_mobile

Cool article. I was inclined to be a Trevor fan when we were recruiting him. He went to HS walking distance from where I grew up. I loved the article's reference to my old little league baseball days — Piedmont. Good memories.

Love his work ethic, but you always have to wonder if 'too much' works against him. Work smarter, not necessarily harder, etc. And we need him to be healthy. Hope JB doesn't run him into the ground (further) now that we have options to spell him for rest or for versatility.

 

[General20]

Richardson: 4-9 from three "best shooter ever!"

Cooney: 3-9 from three "worst shooter ever!"

 

[Tony DeFranco]

a very nice role player. but 38 minutes a game? geesh. i guess a heartbeat is a love beat.

Yeah he's fine to be in the mix but jayzus - I'm not saying he sucks - he can shoot - but him handling the ball is embarrassing - Joseph looks vastly improved - get him more minutes

 

[two3zone]

Richardson: 4-9 from three "best shooter ever!"

Cooney: 3-9 from three "worst shooter ever!"

Ones shiny and new, one isn't.

 

[tbonezone]

"Cooney: 3-9 from three "worst shooter ever!"

well malachi is new. cooney is dragging along a heavy body of work that suggests otherwise.

 

[djcon57]

It's amazing that all the shooting experts have already written Trevor off as only an average shooter after one game. He's been our best shooter over the past three years and it hasn't even been close. I'll say a JB and say we wouldn't have won 10 --- games the last two years without Trevor. People need to give this a rest. I'll take a team of Trevor's any day of the week.

A team of Trevors is in the NIT.

 

[orange79]

A team of Trevors is in the NIT.

Well, yeah. You'd have a team of 5 guards.

 

[Ghost]

It's amazing that all the shooting experts have already written Trevor off as only an average shooter after one game. He's been our best shooter over the past three years and it hasn't even been close. I'll say a JB and say we wouldn't have won 10 --- games the last two years without Trevor. People need to give this a rest. I'll take a team of Trevor's any day of the week.

That's not true. Unless we're saying because he's our only "shooter" that's been playing regularly for three years. G isn't even close to Cooney as a three point shooter?

 

[iommi]

It's amazing that all the shooting experts have already written Trevor off as only an average shooter after one game. He's been our best shooter over the past three years and it hasn't even been close. I'll say a JB and say we wouldn't have won 10 --- games the last two years without Trevor. People need to give this a rest. I'll take a team of Trevor's any day of the week.

No, I've maintained he's not a great shooter for 3 years. He's a streaky, high volume shooter. And when he's off, JB never pulls him out of the game, if even to relax and refocus.

 

[Brooky03]

Serious question; what did Triche do that was more impressive than Cooney? I think he's unanimously looked upon more favorably by the fanbase than Cooney and I'm just interested in the reason why. I suspect Cooney is disliked so much because of what he was billed as (a great shooter) coming in, whereas Triche didn't come in with lofty expectations.

The way I see it:

- similar size and athleticism
- similar 3-point shooting
- similar minutes
- similar defense

Triche was arguably more comfortable handling PG duties for short stretches but wasn't considerably proficient at dribbling, passing or finishing at the rim. So what gives?

 

[djcon57]

Serious question; what did Triche do that was more impressive than Cooney? I think he's unanimously looked upon more favorably by the fanbase than Cooney and I'm just interested in the reason why. I suspect Cooney is disliked so much because of what he was billed as (a great shooter) coming in, whereas Triche didn't come in with lofty expectations.

The way I see it:

- similar size and athleticism
- similar 3-point shooting
- similar minutes
- similar defense

Triche was arguably more comfortable handling PG duties for short stretches but wasn't considerably proficient at dribbling, passing or finishing at the rim. So what gives?

Other than that whole helping the team get to the FINAL FOUR?

But seriously...Triche was killed, especially locally for taking mins from MCW and Waiters.

 

[Brooky03]

Other than that whole helping the team get to the FINAL FOUR?.

This doesn't count. It's a team sport. Cooney wouldn't have held those teams back any more than Triche, imo. And I liked Triche, so don't think I'm hating on him.