the zone

[CusefanATL]

No, usually more than one guy has to rotate. Not sure how doubling would positively affect rebounding.

But your a genius and only opinion that matters

Night bud

even with double it only has 2 men on 1 guy. and 3 guys on 3 guys. so its much easier for the 4 guys (1 of the doubling) and the other 3 to box out their own men. And now only 1 has to find a man to box out.

in a zone, ALL FIVE have to find a guy to box out.

Make more sense for ya?

 

[CusefanATL]

It's a cat and mouse game with the zone. You give up some things and take away others. In the past two seasons we have given up a lot of open threes, there is no denying that. In years past however the zone has forced teams to shoot themselves out of the game. This team may have been better suited for m2m if we started playing m2m from day one...but we didn't. Put us in a man defense now and our slides would be God awful which means we would give up a ton of layups. I would rather have teams jacking threes than getting layups. Yes, we practice man in practice but you don't really get slides down until you do them in games. At this point, stick with the zone and work the underclassmen for next year when we will have a strong front court. Switching to man now would be fatal in my opinion.

but the 4 teams we have lost to get their layups on easy put backs ONLY because of the zone.

The zone defense has been good. Im not saying it hasn't been. But our rebounding is a result strictly of the zone. Its time to see that.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

The zone is a liability, but thinking we can just switch to a defense we no longer practice is completely unrealistic, unfortunately.
• JB hasn't coached a decent m2m defense in years, even when we did practice it
• We are still going to have guys playing out of position
• It's wayyy late in the season for a complete defensive overhaul
• We aren't tough enough - mentally, not assertive, and physically not strong, unless you consider DC's 'bull' act an indication of strength.
• Man would put even more miles on TC and MG, and they're already being run ragged.
• The psych damage of trying to switch and not being immediately competent would be painful...

I hate the zone. But we aren't set up for anything else. Sadly. All eggs... one leaky basket.

 

[Eagles20]

even with double it only has 2 men on 1 guy. and 3 guys on 3 guys. so its much easier for the 4 guys (1 of the doubling) and the other 3 to box out their own men. And now only 1 has to find a man to box out.

in a zone, ALL FIVE have to find a guy to box out.

Make more sense for ya?

Im soo enlightened... Thanks. Considering we are kind of out sized on our front line I still think we get out rebounded in man.

 

[CusefanATL]

The zone is a liability, but thinking we can just switch to a defense we no longer practice is completely unrealistic, unfortunately.
• JB hasn't coached a decent m2m defense in years, even when we did practice it
• We are still going to have guys playing out of position
• It's wayyy late in the season for a complete defensive overhaul
• We aren't tough enough - mentally, not assertive, and physically not strong, unless you consider DC's 'bull' act an indication of strength.
• Man would put even more miles on TC and MG, and they're already being run ragged.
• The psych damage of trying to switch and not being immediately competent would be painful...

I hate the zone. But we aren't set up for anything else. Sadly. All eggs... one leaky basket.

we did it in 2009 because paul harris and johnny flynn wanted too.

We sit in the zone and there is almost no shot of making the tournament sans a miracle. Is that what we should do? Whats the worst a man2man does for us? me thinks it easily gets us in tourney because we have tournament talent by far. we are a top 25 team IMO. but we have lost to 3 average at best major conference teams and 1 horrific major conf team.

 

[Cuse House]

but the 4 teams we have lost to get their layups on easy put backs ONLY because of the zone.

The zone defense has been good. Im not saying it hasn't been. But our rebounding is a result strictly of the zone. Its time to see that.

I don't entirely agree that it is all the zone. We are slender down low, period. We would be in any defense. You can't tell me it is all the zone that forces us to be out rebounded by 30 in 2 games. The zone has a part to play in it, absolutely but it is mostly personnel. Next year we will play zone with Chukwu at the five and an additional body with Moyer and we will not get out rebounded like we are this year because we will have the horses. We have a slender 4 who plays a lot of 5 and shooting guards playing down low. To me that is more of the issue than the zone itself.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Whats the worst a man2man does for us?

We get in more foul trouble and lose games by 20 points instead of 10?

 

[CusefanATL]

You can't tell me it is all the zone that forces us to be out rebounded by 30 in 2 games.

But if we were out rebounded by 15 in 2 games, we win both. Thats the point and the reason to switch it up.

 

[CusefanATL]

We get in more foul trouble and lose games by 20 points instead of 10?

probably not. we are only in foul trouble because we are so far out of position in the zone.

Again, we know the zone is not going to work for us this year. Why not try SOMETHING.? How can anyone disagree? Especailly while chastising Lydon and our centers IN THE ZONE!? Am i in lala land???

 

[Cuse House]

But if we were out rebounded by 15 in 2 games, we win both. Thats the point and the reason to switch it up.

That's an easy statement but how many more baskets would we give up in m2m? It's not as easy as switching defenses and we magically give up less rebounds AND less easy buckets. It's more complicated than that. We would give up less rebounds but we would also give up more easy buckets because we haven't played a second of m2m in a game in 5 years.

 

[Eagles20]

But if we were out rebounded by 15 in 2 games, we win both. Thats the point and the reason to switch it up.

I think we roll out the not practiced/ refined man to man defense. What do we have to lose

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Make more sense for ya?

"Sense" is not a relevant term.

It didn't make sense when we were far more talented than the early season cupcakes we played in semi-recent years, yet couldn't even play them even when we were in man to man defenses.

Doesn't make sense to have a high profile, successful program that can seemingly never shoot free throws.

I just don't believe we are well-coached. I do believe that naming JB to the hall o fame during his active career is the worst thing to happen to reasonable discourse.

Unfortunately, the most 'sensible' thing is to stay the course, expect (hope for) maturation and improvement from the kids, some quick learning from Hop, and to develop everyone who will be back next year while trying to steal a few games with hit shooting. The acc may be deep, but I don't think we are going to the real tournament this year. Switching to man would be like giving up a lot more, and unless you believe we are going to play it a lot next year, what's the point?

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I think we roll out the not practiced/ refined man to man defense. What do we have to lose

I think we can beat the bottom third of the conference with the sucky zone. I don't think we can beat Colgate with a JB- led M2M. Not this year. Different story, maybe, if you had Chukwu protecting the rim.

Plus, don't you think learning man and failing at it will have a negative effect on offensive development?

 

[We Are Syracuse]

It's a cat and mouse game with the zone. You give up some things and take away others. In the past two seasons we have given up a lot of open threes, there is no denying that. In years past however the zone has forced teams to shoot themselves out of the game. This team may have been better suited for m2m if we started playing m2m from day one...but we didn't. Put us in a man defense now and our slides would be God awful which means we would give up a ton of layups. I would rather have teams jacking threes than getting layups. Yes, we practice man in practice but you don't really get slides down until you do them in games. At this point, stick with the zone and work the underclassmen for next year when we will have a strong front court. Switching to man now would be fatal in my opinion.

Well at the end of the day, the whole point of defense, is to get a defensive rebound... SU cannot do that. Therefore something needs to change. Letting up 20 offensive rebounds is legit insane.

 

[Kowbelkat]

Im soo enlightened... Thanks. Considering we are kind of out sized on our front line I still think we get out rebounded in man.

not by 25 a game

 

[We Are Syracuse]

I think we can beat the bottom third of the conference with the sucky zone. I don't think we can beat Colgate with a JB- led M2M. Not this year. Different story, maybe, if you had Chukwu protecting the rim.

Plus, don't you think learning man and failing at it will have a negative effect on offensive development?

Hahahaha You guys are hilarious. You can't honestly think that. Man to man is like a sin to some of you guys yet literally 95% of D1 teams play it. They play it for a reason.

 

[Kowbelkat]

That's an easy statement but how many more baskets would we give up in m2m? It's not as easy as switching defenses and we magically give up less rebounds AND less easy buckets. It's more complicated than that. We would give up less rebounds but we would also give up more easy buckets because we haven't played a second of m2m in a game in 5 years.

Pitt got plenty of easy buckets the last 5 mins

 

[Cuse House]

Well at the end of the day, the whole point of defense, is to get a defensive rebound... SU cannot do that. Therefore something needs to change. Letting up 20 offensive rebounds is legit insane.

Your right which is why we got a 7'2 transfer and a power forward coming in next year. These coaches have been in the business for a long time and won a lot of games. You don't think they see what you see? There are pieces in place. No one knew what to expect with this group not even JB. Stay the course, switching what you are fundamentally would be a big mistake.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Pitt got plenty of easy buckets the last 5 mins

Pitt was laying the ball up the whole game or shooting wide open shots? They just couldn't make any shots. It didn't matter though. They would just get the offensive rebound. Pitt had a good look on just about every possession in the second half.

 

[Eagles20]

I think we can beat the bottom third of the conference with the sucky zone. I don't think we can beat Colgate with a JB- led M2M. Not this year. Different story, maybe, if you had Chukwu protecting the rim.

Plus, don't you think learning man and failing at it will have a negative effect on offensive development?

I was being sarcastic. I don't think we win a game in the ACC switching to man. Their has been no invested time in teaching man to man. Playing man to man in pick up games and high school is not the same going against ACC talent and offensive schemes

 

[Kowbelkat]

In the zone it looks like our guys seem to look at one another and think the other guy is going to go after the rebound it happened numerous times tonite, they just stood there

 

[Cuse House]

Let's not forget, we were supposed to have Moustapha here as well. Not that it matters any longer but he was another bigger body and had a solid reputation as a rebounder. Just having 1 more big body could have been potentially huge.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

take away the FT's . Take away the non TO's from Hop. Take away Lydon playing like a scardy cat on offense. Take away whatever you think about Cooney (even though he was the best player on the court tonight). Take away Malachi being terrible the last month.

the zone is beyond awful for this team. The rebounding out of it is so bad, its insane. Lydon is not THIS BAD of a player. He is good, but him playing the 5 defensively in the zone is now a joke. They immediately attack him and win. and he can't rebound to save his life out of it.

Can we please just try something else? We tried shooting 25 3's a game earlier in the year. lets try other stuff. We have legit talent on this team. We are not a 16 win team (even though i predicted 17 with Lydon playing C 3 games in).

Really? The zone worked well last night. We has a lead midway through the second half. Then Coleman fouled out and we had no answer...Lyndon m2m would of gotten torched just like Lydon in the zone.

Honestly, we really lost this game on the offensive side of the ball and at the damn free throw line...look at the whole picture. Yes, we are a terrible rebounding team but that is not going to improve drastically. Bottom line, they made plays down the stretch, we didn't! End of story.

 

[CusefanATL]

Your right which is why we got a 7'2 transfer and a power forward coming in next year. These coaches have been in the business for a long time and won a lot of games. You don't think they see what you see? There are pieces in place. No one knew what to expect with this group not even JB. Stay the course, switching what you are fundamentally would be a big mistake.

The 7'2" center plays next year.

Trying man 2 man this year has no bearing what so ever on next year.

 

[CusefanATL]

Really? The zone worked well last night. We has a lead midway through the second half. Then Coleman fouled out and we had no answer...Lyndon m2m would of gotten torched just like Lydon in the zone.

Honestly, we really lost this game on the offensive side of the ball and at the damn free throw line...look at the whole picture. Yes, we are a terrible rebounding team but that is not going to improve drastically. Bottom line, they made plays down the stretch, we didn't! End of story.

The defense is not the issue. Never said the zone defensively was bad.

They out rebounded is 19-17 on their misses. No way that happens in m2m

FT was also a huge issue. If we hit 65% from line in the 1st half (let's call it 3 more points) and rebound like a bad rebounding team we win by 15.