There is no question whatsoever that the next HC is going to have a season or two where we are worse than a bubble team

[SWC75]

Prepare to be shocked.

 

[SWC75]

If you think that about me you couldn’t be more wrong.
I don’t care if people disagree with me as long as they are disagreeing with the argument and not just looking to fight me.

Sorry. i guess I misinterpreted your saying that there was no question, whatsoever.

 

[hungrychuck]

Said this last night and will repeat it.

It will be very difficult if not impossible for the next coach to be better than JB.

It won't be that difficult to be better than JB at age 74.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I’m all in on Nate Oats

What is your obsession with that tool?

 

[SWC75]

Said this last night and will repeat it.

It will be very difficult if not impossible for the next coach to be better than JB.

It won't be that difficult to be better than JB at age 74.

When he turned 70 he'd just coached three teams that achieved a #1 ranking in five years plus another team that reached the Final Four. So the onset of his coaching dementia much have been in the last four years.

 

[OrangeFoo]

When he turned 70 he'd just coached three teams that achieved a #1 ranking in five years plus another team that reached the Final Four. So the onset of his coaching dementia much have been in the last four years.

"What have NCAA sanctions and the rise of the three done to the Syracuse mens basketball program, Alex?"

 

[SWC75]

"What have NCAA sanctions and the rise of the three done to the Syracuse mens basketball program, Alex?"

The real problem is that we haven't had a quality enter since Rakeem Christmas in 2015 and we haven't had a quality point guard since Tyler Ennis in 2014. We've had quality players who weren't centers or point guards playing those positions, (Gbinije, Battle, Lydon, Dolezaj), but that's not the same thing. I watch the NCAA games and I keep saying "Boy i wish we had that guy!" It's always a center or a point guard.

 

[Funk Doc]

I really think the recruiting for the zone thing is way overbaked. All of these kids play primarily m2m before they get here and if the coach knows how to teach, can have them playing it well relatively quickly. Length translates well to any defense.

I totally agree the zone v man argument fit is overrated, but the main argument about recruiting for the zone, is it appears length seems to takes precedence over other offensive skills(primarily shooting and ball handling).

 

[kcsu]

Then why use the word loyalists, which some others do too.

Bees that is a good point. I bleed orange like you however my commitment has always been to the school. Ben Frank Mac Paul Greg Doug Dino in football and of Course Roy and Jim in basketball. JB and Ben are im a league of their own but they are still not anywhere near as important as the school. Jim is an amazing coach but isn't above criticism. We all have our opinion on how the Hop situation went down or recruiting or the Zone or any other number of issues relating to SU basketball. Being critical of a coach doesn't mean you are not loyal to the school. Heck it doesn't mean you dont like the coach. Blind loyalty is dangerous. It often results in the actual demise of the individual or institution you are trying to defend.
My opinion on JB is that things have been off since he lost his partner. Hop was not just an assistant coach but he was his compass. Hop provided balance. The two worked in harmony and built an amazing program. The friction that was created when it became evident that Jim didnt want to retire on the date provided by the Chancellor was the start of the programs demise. Hop leaving was like a divorce or death of a spouse. The dynamics of the program at that point changed dramatically. Nothing was and never will be the same again. It is apparent that JB has tried to fill the Hop void with Gmac but as in almost all successful collaborations the replacement will never equal the replacement. It would be like Johnny Carson trying to replace Ed. Mick trying to replace Keith..
So back to our differing opinions of loyalty. I will continue to support the school and program while reserving the right to criticize any individual who represents it. I also respect your opinion to express your loyalty as you wish. Be it to the coach first or institution first is simply a matter of opinion. We are both Huge SU fans which at the end of the day is what truly matters.

 

[Alsacs]

Bees that is a good point. I bleed orange like you however my commitment has always been to the school. Ben Frank Mac Paul Greg Doug Dino in football and of Course Roy and Jim in basketball. JB and Ben are im a league of their own but they are still not anywhere near as important as the school. Jim is an amazing coach but isn't above criticism. We all have our opinion on how the Hop situation went down or recruiting or the Zone or any other number of issues relating to SU basketball. Being critical of a coach doesn't mean you are not loyal to the school. Heck it doesn't mean you dont like the coach. Blind loyalty is dangerous. It often results in the actual demise of the individual or institution you are trying to defend.
My opinion on JB is that things have been off since he lost his partner. Hop was not just an assistant coach but he was his compass. Hop provided balance. The two worked in harmony and built an amazing program. The friction that was created when it became evident that Jim didnt want to retire on the date provided by the Chancellor was the start of the programs demise. Hop leaving was like a divorce or death of a spouse. The dynamics of the program at that point changed dramatically. Nothing was and never will be the same again. It is apparent that JB has tried to fill the Hop void with Gmac but as in almost all successful collaborations the replacement will never equal the replacement. It would be like Johnny Carson trying to replace Ed. Mick trying to replace Keith..
So back to our differing opinions of loyalty. I will continue to support the school and program while reserving the right to criticize any individual who represents it. I also respect your opinion to express your loyalty as you wish. Be it to the coach first or institution first is simply a matter of opinion. We are both Huge SU fans which at the end of the day is what truly matters.

Things have become clearer since Hop left.
JB and Hop were in an awful transition that JB was going to thru with but clearly wasn’t happy about it.

Our program is fine in that we are competitive every year the problems are the HC doesn’t adapt and we need atleast one assistant coach who can challenge JB. Hop wasn’t JB at the end. Hop was just a better recruiter.

We need an assistant who can be given the task of fixing the offense just like Michigan/Beilein did for his defense.

 

[CuseMan4]

What is your obsession with that tool?

I don’t know, he only wins basketball games and took mighty Buffalo to a 6 seed and possible sweet sixteen, beat Cuse and is younger in coaching terms. Now if he did come to Cuse and won us a lot of games, won some conference championships, made a few final fours, won a natty or two. For some reason I don’t think you would be calling him a tool. Also just my prediction but if Vegas had a line today on who our next coach would be, I’m throwing my money on Oats.

 

[manleyzoo]

Wow. The loyalist are down to
" at least we make a 68 team tournament" unreal.
We are Syracuse. Not Fing Georgia north texas liberty south prairie attct
Central east west Western college of the city college of mothers of St Francis Sons of City college of Bradley

We used to be Syracuse. Now we're just a bubble team with double digit losses every year.

 

[manleyzoo]

I did a study a decade ago, (when people wanted JB fired), in which studied what happened after the top 25 winnigest major college football and basketball coaches retired, (or got fired or died). 84% of the time his successor had a lower winning percentage. The key is to be the next guy after that.

Even great programs don't go from one Hall of Famer to another. UCLA has had 10 coaches scine John Wooden retired in 1975. The one with the most wins is Ben Howland. North Carolina didn't go from dean Smith to Roy Williams. kentucky didn't go directly from Rick Pitino to John Calipari. there are exceptions: Louisville went from Denny Crum to Pitino and Kansas went from Williams to Bill Self. They had the courage to bring in a guy who had been a successful head coach elsewhere.

In my study, new coaches with prior experience as head coaches replaced 'legends' with an average winning percentage of .714 and had a winning percentage of their own of .665. Coaches with no previous head coaching experience replaced legends with a .710 winning percentage and had a .573 percentage of their own.

Still, I'll be shocked if JB's successor isn't a current member of the staff. if that doesn't work out, then we'll look elsewhere.

You've put numbers behind what I thought was true but was too lazy to back it with data. Thanks for doing the work.

 

[Cuse1055]

Bees that is a good point. I bleed orange like you however my commitment has always been to the school. Ben Frank Mac Paul Greg Doug Dino in football and of Course Roy and Jim in basketball. JB and Ben are im a league of their own but they are still not anywhere near as important as the school. Jim is an amazing coach but isn't above criticism. We all have our opinion on how the Hop situation went down or recruiting or the Zone or any other number of issues relating to SU basketball. Being critical of a coach doesn't mean you are not loyal to the school. Heck it doesn't mean you dont like the coach. Blind loyalty is dangerous. It often results in the actual demise of the individual or institution you are trying to defend.
My opinion on JB is that things have been off since he lost his partner. Hop was not just an assistant coach but he was his compass. Hop provided balance. The two worked in harmony and built an amazing program. The friction that was created when it became evident that Jim didnt want to retire on the date provided by the Chancellor was the start of the programs demise. Hop leaving was like a divorce or death of a spouse. The dynamics of the program at that point changed dramatically. Nothing was and never will be the same again. It is apparent that JB has tried to fill the Hop void with Gmac but as in almost all successful collaborations the replacement will never equal the replacement. It would be like Johnny Carson trying to replace Ed. Mick trying to replace Keith..
So back to our differing opinions of loyalty. I will continue to support the school and program while reserving the right to criticize any individual who represents it. I also respect your opinion to express your loyalty as you wish. Be it to the coach first or institution first is simply a matter of opinion. We are both Huge SU fans which at the end of the day is what truly matters.

Very well said.

 

[Cuse1055]

I don’t know, he only wins basketball games and took mighty Buffalo to a 6 seed and possible sweet sixteen, beat Cuse and is younger in coaching terms. Now if he did come to Cuse and won us a lot of games, won some conference championships, made a few final fours, won a natty or two. For some reason I don’t think you would be calling him a tool. Also just my prediction but if Vegas had a line today on who our next coach would be, I’m throwing my money on Oats.

I truly hope you’re right. I think he’s a coaching star and, given our resources and tradition, he could excel with us here.

 

[SWC75]

Bees that is a good point. I bleed orange like you however my commitment has always been to the school. Ben Frank Mac Paul Greg Doug Dino in football and of Course Roy and Jim in basketball. JB and Ben are im a league of their own but they are still not anywhere near as important as the school. Jim is an amazing coach but isn't above criticism. We all have our opinion on how the Hop situation went down or recruiting or the Zone or any other number of issues relating to SU basketball. Being critical of a coach doesn't mean you are not loyal to the school. Heck it doesn't mean you dont like the coach. Blind loyalty is dangerous. It often results in the actual demise of the individual or institution you are trying to defend.
My opinion on JB is that things have been off since he lost his partner. Hop was not just an assistant coach but he was his compass. Hop provided balance. The two worked in harmony and built an amazing program. The friction that was created when it became evident that Jim didnt want to retire on the date provided by the Chancellor was the start of the programs demise. Hop leaving was like a divorce or death of a spouse. The dynamics of the program at that point changed dramatically. Nothing was and never will be the same again. It is apparent that JB has tried to fill the Hop void with Gmac but as in almost all successful collaborations the replacement will never equal the replacement. It would be like Johnny Carson trying to replace Ed. Mick trying to replace Keith..
So back to our differing opinions of loyalty. I will continue to support the school and program while reserving the right to criticize any individual who represents it. I also respect your opinion to express your loyalty as you wish. Be it to the coach first or institution first is simply a matter of opinion. We are both Huge SU fans which at the end of the day is what truly matters.

I recall in the debate over Coach Pasqualoni in football that there seemed to be a split between those who were loyal to the coach and deflected any criticism of him and those who were loyal to the school and thought we could do better. I was in the latter group although i never got to the point of wanting him fired- i thought his record was too good to justify that. I favored changes in the staff. Instead a new AD came in fired him and brought in a guy recommended by a coach he knew from his old job. That was a disaster and we've spent years crawling out of the resulting hole.

There have been several times in JB's history when people have gotten impatient with him being the coach. One was in the late 90's, when recruiting had fallen off. one year our outstanding recruit was James Theus, a good defensive guard who couldn't shoot. Then there was the legendary Greg Davis. We got Ethan Cole to transfer here. JB made Mike Hopkins his lead recruiter and brought in Troy Weaver and we won the national championship a couple years later.

Then in the late 2000's, we had a series of disappointing years: two first round NCAA losses, (it would have been three in a row without GMAC going off on BYU in 2004), followed by two NIT years. I still remember
the trip home from the UMASS loss in the 2008 NIT, where we'd somehow blown a 24 point second ahlf lead to lose to the Minutemen for the second time that year in the Dome. I stayed away from the board for a week because the people who wanted Boeheim out were in command. Their arguments were exactly what we have been hearing now.

People like to break seasons up to turn them into streaks. We were 19-8 late in the 2008-9 season when we started playing the sort of fanatical defense that has keyed our best post season runs., (we beat St. John's by 29, Cincinnati by 24 and Rutgers by 30 while holding them to an average of 54 points). That keyed a 9-2 finish, including the 6OT game, which was the beginning of a 155-28 run through the 25-0 start of 2013-14. The biggest change during that time was the switch to 100% zone, which appeared to be a great idea.

In both the 1990's slump and the current one we were coming off a probation, which can have an impact for years after it's over. You don't want to do anything wrong again or get worse penalties. We've also had things happen like DaJuan tearing up his knee and Darius Bazley opting for the G league, as well as guys who were not quite blue chip talents opting for the NBA before they had maximized their skills.

It think the idea that JB could coach at 70 but not at 74 is a bunch of crap. We've made two strong NCAA runs and beaten Duke several times in this "bad" era. I'm more receptive to the idea that the current group of recruiters might not be the right guys. head coaches are always heavily dependent on their staffs to line up the right recruits for them to 'close'. Everybody loses some of them. Maybe we need another Troy Weaver on the staff. There's nothing wrong with this program that wouldn't be solved if we could just recruit at least a good college center and point guard.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I recall in the debate over Coach Pasqualoni in football that there seemed to be a split between those who were loyal to the coach and deflected any criticism of him and those who were loyal to the school and thought we could do better. I was in the latter group although i never got to the point of wanting him fired- i thought his record was too good to justify that. I favored changes in the staff. Instead a new AD came in fired him and brought in a guy recommended by a coach he knew from his old job. That was a disaster and we've spent years crawling out of the resulting hole.

There have been several times in JB's history when people have gotten impatient with him being the coach. One was in the late 90's, when recruiting had fallen off. one year our outstanding recruit was James Theus, a good defensive guard who couldn't shoot. Then there was the legendary Greg Davis. We got Ethan Cole to transfer here. JB made Mike Hopkins his lead recruiter and brought in Troy Weaver and we won the national championship a couple years later.

Then in the late 2000's, we had a series of disappointing years: two first round NCAA losses, (it would have been three in a row without GMAC going off on BYU in 2004), followed by two NIT years. I still remember
the trip home from the UMASS loss in the 2008 NIT, where we'd somehow blown a 24 point second ahlf lead to lose to the Minutemen for the second time that year in the Dome. I stayed away from the board for a week because the people who wanted Boeheim out were in command. Their arguments were exactly what we have been hearing now.

People like to break seasons up to turn them into streaks. We were 19-8 late in the 2008-9 season when we started playing the sort of fanatical defense that has keyed our best post season runs., (we beat St. John's by 29, Cincinnati by 24 and Rutgers by 30 while holding them to an average of 54 points). That keyed a 9-2 finish, including the 6OT game, which was the beginning of a 155-28 run through the 25-0 start of 2013-14. The biggest change during that time was the switch to 100% zone, which appeared to be a great idea.

In both the 1990's slump and the current one we were coming off a probation, which can have an impact for years after it's over. You don't want to do anything wrong again or get worse penalties. We've also had things happen like DaJuan tearing up his knee and Darius Bazley opting for the G league, as well as guys who were not quite blue chip talents opting for the NBA before they had maximized their skills.

It think the idea that JB could coach at 70 but not at 74 is a bunch of crap. We've made two strong NCAA runs and beaten Duke several times in this "bad" era. I'm more receptive to the idea that the current group of recruiters might not be the right guys. head coaches are always heavily dependent on their staffs to line up the right recruits for them to 'close'. Everybody loses some of them. Maybe we need another Troy Weaver on the staff. There's nothing wrong with this program that wouldn't be solved if we could just recruit at least a good college center and point guard.

Thank you, SWC. In your own inimitable way and backed by solid recollection of facts and data, you’ve expressed what I, a so-called “ JB loyalist”... whatever that means, have tried to say.
First and foremost my loyalty is to my alma mater. But, I’ve seen enough over the years with the “torches and pitchforks” segment of our fanbase to know that maintaining perspective is of primary importance.
Why does defending JB over what i consider an over-the-top onslaught, somehow seen as being mutually exclusive from acknowledging that the program has struggled lately? Why can’t the two coexist w/out the absolutist rhetoric from the peanut gallery? Why arent both things seen as true?
I was one of those who clamored for Pasqualoni’s ouster. In retrospect I still stand by that decision, but 15 years of football Siberia have shown me that simply wanting change, doesn’t mean you get the “right ” change.
In any case, JB will be gone in a few years. And i fully expect that some in our fanbase will begin to fully realize what we’ve enjoyed here all these years. Warts and all.

 

[kcsu]

I recall in the debate over Coach Pasqualoni in football that there seemed to be a split between those who were loyal to the coach and deflected any criticism of him and those who were loyal to the school and thought we could do better. I was in the latter group although i never got to the point of wanting him fired- i thought his record was too good to justify that. I favored changes in the staff. Instead a new AD came in fired him and brought in a guy recommended by a coach he knew from his old job. That was a disaster and we've spent years crawling out of the resulting hole.

There have been several times in JB's history when people have gotten impatient with him being the coach. One was in the late 90's, when recruiting had fallen off. one year our outstanding recruit was James Theus, a good defensive guard who couldn't shoot. Then there was the legendary Greg Davis. We got Ethan Cole to transfer here. JB made Mike Hopkins his lead recruiter and brought in Troy Weaver and we won the national championship a couple years later.

Then in the late 2000's, we had a series of disappointing years: two first round NCAA losses, (it would have been three in a row without GMAC going off on BYU in 2004), followed by two NIT years. I still remember
the trip home from the UMASS loss in the 2008 NIT, where we'd somehow blown a 24 point second ahlf lead to lose to the Minutemen for the second time that year in the Dome. I stayed away from the board for a week because the people who wanted Boeheim out were in command. Their arguments were exactly what we have been hearing now.

People like to break seasons up to turn them into streaks. We were 19-8 late in the 2008-9 season when we started playing the sort of fanatical defense that has keyed our best post season runs., (we beat St. John's by 29, Cincinnati by 24 and Rutgers by 30 while holding them to an average of 54 points). That keyed a 9-2 finish, including the 6OT game, which was the beginning of a 155-28 run through the 25-0 start of 2013-14. The biggest change during that time was the switch to 100% zone, which appeared to be a great idea.

In both the 1990's slump and the current one we were coming off a probation, which can have an impact for years after it's over. You don't want to do anything wrong again or get worse penalties. We've also had things happen like DaJuan tearing up his knee and Darius Bazley opting for the G league, as well as guys who were not quite blue chip talents opting for the NBA before they had maximized their skills.

It think the idea that JB could coach at 70 but not at 74 is a bunch of crap. We've made two strong NCAA runs and beaten Duke several times in this "bad" era. I'm more receptive to the idea that the current group of recruiters might not be the right guys. head coaches are always heavily dependent on their staffs to line up the right recruits for them to 'close'. Everybody loses some of them. Maybe we need another Troy Weaver on the staff. There's nothing wrong with this program that wouldn't be solved if we could just recruit at least a good college center and point guard.

As always a great post. JB need assistant coaches who compliment him. Recruiting has never been Jims strong suit. The jury is still out but at this point its obvious we are missing Hop.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

No one said JB has "dementia." You don't have to have dementia to have age-related decline in efficacy. // There's a non-JB-related component to what is always attributed to 'JB's consistency': The Dome, which i believe is tremendously underappreciated as a factor in our success. // It's kinda moot, to discuss whether or not we will experience a decline when JB leaves. He will leave, at some point. Wanting to keep him around longer, during his decline years, seems more about fear and sentimentality than pragmatism. // We can't blame not having a quality C or PG and therewith exonerate JB, because part of JB's charge is to have a quality C and PG. Announcing a retirement doesn't help. Being 'super old' in the mindset of a teenager doesn't help. Playing exclusively zone doesn't help. Playing at a super slow, low-scoring pace doesn't help. Quick-yanking players for one ambiguous 'error' and then reaming him out doesn't help. Being known for playing a short bench doesn't help. Not 'playing the NCAA game' and getting harsh sanctions instituted doesn't help. Having a bench staff full of assistants who only know your way might make you comfortable, but it doesn't help. Being ly instead of charming in PCs doesn't help. Not being the big dog in your own, geographically-appropriate conference doesn't help.

Seriously, though, you can quote KenPom til you're blue in the face, about how we rank in terms of 'defense,' but i just don't buy those statistics. The eyes tell me something else. Bottom line, if i'm a top 20 high school player, i cannot imagine saying 'hell yeah' at the prospect of playing for a 74-year old, irascible 'whiner,' committed to playing all zone, with as few offensive possessions as possible. No one—no one—plays hoops for fun and yells out Let's play zone! No one. No one i'd want, anyway. We have had some success doing things that way, and we have gotten some nice players that way. But, as those comments from announcers grew more persistent, we've seen our decline. Too often those successes are attributed to zone, when wins might have come despite zone. Our recruiting has been confused by the fact that we initially lost the battle for Battle, we didn't recruit Gbinije, we didn't recruit Bazely, we didn't recruit Chukwu, we didn't get Elijah. And we've lost some kids who we thought we should have had. Why? We are not as attractive as we have been. We are not as attractive as we, as alums, think we are.

 

[SBU72]

Wow. The loyalist are down to
" at least we make a 68 team tournament" unreal.
We are Syracuse. Not Fing Georgia north texas liberty south prairie attct
Central east west Western college of the city college of mothers of St Francis Sons of City college of Bradley

Why does "we are Syracuse" guarantee a name coach being hired, and that any coach new to the program will be able to do better with the talent on hand. Any coach coming in will have the specter of JB and his record looming over him. (I don't see JB moving to Florida to retire)

 

[SBU72]

I recall in the debate over Coach Pasqualoni in football that there seemed to be a split between those who were loyal to the coach and deflected any criticism of him and those who were loyal to the school and thought we could do better. I was in the latter group although i never got to the point of wanting him fired- i thought his record was too good to justify that. I favored changes in the staff. Instead a new AD came in fired him and brought in a guy recommended by a coach he knew from his old job. That was a disaster and we've spent years crawling out of the resulting hole.

There have been several times in JB's history when people have gotten impatient with him being the coach. One was in the late 90's, when recruiting had fallen off. one year our outstanding recruit was James Theus, a good defensive guard who couldn't shoot. Then there was the legendary Greg Davis. We got Ethan Cole to transfer here. JB made Mike Hopkins his lead recruiter and brought in Troy Weaver and we won the national championship a couple years later.

Then in the late 2000's, we had a series of disappointing years: two first round NCAA losses, (it would have been three in a row without GMAC going off on BYU in 2004), followed by two NIT years. I still remember
the trip home from the UMASS loss in the 2008 NIT, where we'd somehow blown a 24 point second ahlf lead to lose to the Minutemen for the second time that year in the Dome. I stayed away from the board for a week because the people who wanted Boeheim out were in command. Their arguments were exactly what we have been hearing now.

People like to break seasons up to turn them into streaks. We were 19-8 late in the 2008-9 season when we started playing the sort of fanatical defense that has keyed our best post season runs., (we beat St. John's by 29, Cincinnati by 24 and Rutgers by 30 while holding them to an average of 54 points). That keyed a 9-2 finish, including the 6OT game, which was the beginning of a 155-28 run through the 25-0 start of 2013-14. The biggest change during that time was the switch to 100% zone, which appeared to be a great idea.

In both the 1990's slump and the current one we were coming off a probation, which can have an impact for years after it's over. You don't want to do anything wrong again or get worse penalties. We've also had things happen like DaJuan tearing up his knee and Darius Bazley opting for the G league, as well as guys who were not quite blue chip talents opting for the NBA before they had maximized their skills.

It think the idea that JB could coach at 70 but not at 74 is a bunch of crap. We've made two strong NCAA runs and beaten Duke several times in this "bad" era. I'm more receptive to the idea that the current group of recruiters might not be the right guys. head coaches are always heavily dependent on their staffs to line up the right recruits for them to 'close'. Everybody loses some of them. Maybe we need another Troy Weaver on the staff. There's nothing wrong with this program that wouldn't be solved if we could just recruit at least a good college center and point guard.

For years now I have bounced back and forth over JB. During that time I never thought he was a "bad" coach. I just wished we could see how a specific set of kids would play under a different coach. Therefore I was looking forward to Hop finally taking over. Alas, didn't happen.
We all had high hopes for this team based on the 2018 tourny and the returning players and the incoming players. Then things really fell apart. A top recruit decided to go pro. 1 pg had a medical problem and never played, another had an injury that seemingly put him back all year. A center who didn't to seem to ever get healthy and even play to last years level. And finally a top player who actually regressed! The whole team seem to regress defensively! So I wonder, would a different coach actually done better? Would a new coach with a completely new offense and defense plus new enthusiasm actually got more from this team.

 

[dollarbill44]

As always a great post. JB need assistant coaches who compliment him. Recruiting has never been Jims strong suit. The jury is still out but at this point its obvious we are missing Hop.

I don't think recruiting has never been his strong suit. He accumulated a LOT of talent in the 80s and early 90s.

 

[kcsu]

I don't think recruiting has never been his strong suit. He accumulated a LOT of talent in the 80s and early 90s.

30 or more years ago i had a bag phone.

 

[bozophobe]

*edit*

 

[SWC75]

Just wondering - is there an example, in the history of college basketball, of a team improving or performing well as their head coach progressed into his middle seventies and beyond?

Here is a list of coaches with 600 or more wins. let's take a look.
List of college men's basketball coaches with 600 wins - Wikipedia

Mike Krzyzewski is 72 and has the #1 overall seed.
Jim Boeheim is 74 and went to the Final Four in 2016, the Sweet 16 in 2018 and got us into the tournament with an injured point guard this year. We competed well against Duke, UNC and even Virginia for 30 minutes.
Bob Knight retired at 67 to give his son the job he had. he was still winning but his last really good season was when he was 52.
Jim Calhoun retired at age 70 having just won the national championship the year before. he left a strong enough program that Connecticut would win another national title two years later. Then it declined badly as his influenced waned.
Dean Smith retired at age 67 to give his long-time assistant. Bill Gutheridge a shot at coaching the team. They went to the Final Four in Smith's last year and in Gutheridge's first.
Adolph Rupp retired at age 70. His last team made it the Elite 8.
Roy Williams is 68 and has a #1 seed. Let's see if he declines in his 70's.
Bob Huggins is 65. They just had a bad season after two Sweet 16 teams. maybe he should hang it up.
Cliff Ellis is 73. He used to coach Clemson and Auburn. he's now at a less demanding job at Coastal Carolina.
Eddie Sutton retired at 72 as an interim coach art USF. He's resigned at Oklahoma State due to substance abuse problems but had coached a Final Four team at 68 and a Sweet 16 team at 69.
Lefty Driesell retired at 71. he'd lost his job at Maryland at age 54 due to scandal but re-surfaced at James Madison and Georgia State, where he had a 29-5 team that pulled an opening round upset of Wisconsin at age 69.
Lute Olson retired at age 72. He's had an Elite 8 team at age 70, then declined to losses in the second then the first round the next two years. he retired due to significant health problems.
Lou Henson retired from Illinois at age 64 and went back to New Mexico State, where he'd first made his name, but was unable to duplicate his previous success and retired at age 73. His last really strong team had been at Illinois in 1989, (the team that beat us in the Elite 8) when he was 58.
Ed Diddle retired at age 69 after two straight 5-16 years. His last really good team had been in 1954, when he was 59. He was replaced by Johnny Oldham, a former player who had been the head coach at Tennessee tech and promptly went 18-9 and then 25-3.
Hank Iba retired from Oklahoma State at 65. He's had an Elite 8 team at age 60 but his teams were mediocre after that. he's primarily known for two things: Winning two national championships with the games first good 7 footer, Bob Kurland in the 40's and being the coach of the first US Olympic team to lose in 1972. He liked a slow pace that helped his usually undermanned teams to stay in the game. it helped the Russian stay in the game until everything hit the fan at the end of the game.
John Beilein is 66 and has a 2 seed this year.
Bo Ryan retired at 68 to give his assistant the job after having an NCAA runner-up the year before.
Phog Allen retired at age 70 He's had an NCAA champion at 66 and a runner-up at 67 but slipped to 11-10 and 14-9 in his last two seasons. But he'd just recruited Wilt Chamberlain and gave his assistant, Dick Harp, the chance to coach him.
Jerry Tarkanian coached until age 71. His glory years at UNLV had ended in controversy at age 61 but he coached Fresno State to a 26-7 record and a first round NCAA win at age 70.
Norm Stewart retired with health issues at 64 with a 20-9 NCAA team.
Ray Meyer retired in favor of his son at age 70, having gone 27-3 in his last year and 180-30 in his last seven seasons.
Don Haskins retired at age 69 having gone 16-12, his first winning season in four years.
John Calipari is 60 and has a 2 seed.
Rick Barnes is 64 and has a 2 seed.
Bill Self is 56. At 26-9 he had his worse team in 5 years.
Mike Montgomery retired at 67 with an NIT team. there had been a controversy after he had shoved a player in the chest.
Denny Crum retired at age 64 with a 12-19 team. His last good team had been five years before. Rick Pitino took over and went 19-13, then 25-7. He was in the Final Four two years later.
Gary Williams retired at age 66 with a 19-14 record. he'd been 24-9 the year before. His national title had been age 55.
John Wooden retired at age 64 with a national championship. he seemed like an old man at the time. I am now 65.
Ralph Miller retired at age 70 with a 22-8 team that lost in the first round.
Rick Pitino was 64 when he was fired over various controversies. His last team was 25-9 and lost in the second round.
Jim Larranaga is 69 and had a 14-18 record this year after two first round losses. he was 27-8 at age 65.
Billy Tubbs retired at age 71 coaching Lamar to a 17-14 season. His last really good team was a 27-6 team at age 63. Jerk.
Dana Altman is age 60 and his team is playing today.
Lon Kruger is 66. His Oklahoma team is playing today.
Hugh Durham finished at age 67 coaching Jacksonville to a 16-13 record. He hadn't made the NCAA tournament in 15 years.
Stew Morrill retired at 62 with an 18-13 team. He's had a 30-4 team at age 58. His NCAA record: 1-9. His NIT record: 0-6. great regular season coach.
Tubby Smith is coaching high point at age 67. They went 16-15. He hasn't had a single digit loss team since he was 53.
Tom Izzo is 64 and has a 2 seed.

The fact is, there just isn't much information available about 74 year old coaches. I guess the big takeaway is that even the greatest coaches are usually retired by then. But here's no evidence here that they "hit the wall" at some specific point. Maybe the best comparison is to Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden in football. Paterno was still winning, (his team was 8-1 when he quit). He was 84 at the time. Bowden was 80. he was still winning, too but was 7-6 in his last year. His last 10 win season had been 6 years before. But football coaches have a much larger staff and can be more the CEO type of leader.

I just think you need to judge each situation individually, instead of declaring that someone can no longer coach because of his numerical age.