Thinking about Turnover and Next Years Lineup

[Niastri]

Every off season from now on is going to be like watching your pro team navigate free agency. Except, as a fan, you don't know the salary cap, the teams available budget or player salary requests, because everything that is happening is technically illegal. NIL had made recruiting and roster building more of a black box than ever.

It's very hard to care about the roster until the games start these days. That said, let's give it a prediction.

With nobody graduating, and the team coming off a big win, it's easy to start getting optimistic about the future. But we will still have turnover, maybe a lot of it.

I think it's likely we get two new players in the portal. Then we have two freshman recruits.

Right now, we only have one opening... Every player on the team will have a decision to make this off season.

Some will be recruited to play elsewhere. Hopefully none of those guys accept... But we could have another Edwards situation. Williams and Mintz both came back last season, though, so Red has a couple solid points when it comes to keeping his guys. (The fact Williams didn't work out isn't reflective of how valuable it was for Red to recruit him back.)

Some of our players will not want to come back into low playing time. Who knows if Red will give of them nudges towards the door.

It's possible some might stop playing basketball voluntarily, and stay on scholarship at Syracuse without being part of the team.

My boldest prediction is that Mintz figures out he makes more money here than he could overseas, and decides to stick around.

McLeod recovers, and takes his natural place backing up Brown. A young portal big man comes in for limited minutes to replace Hima. Maybe a freshman redshirt somewhere else gets recruited over.

Starling, Bell, Westry and Copeland all come back a little bigger and a little better, and a little better paid.

Carey sticks around, and we eventually get to see if he's actually got real potential.

An Senior out Grad portal wing/big comes in to replace Williams, knowing he's got a battle to beat out Freeman as a starter. He figures his experience will help, and the money is way better than being the best player in a little conference.

I'd be excited if we had:

5 McLeod, portal, Patterson
4-5 Brown, Carey
4 Freeman
3-4 portal
3 Bell
2-3 Copeland, Westry
2 Moore
1-2 Starling, Mintz

Hima stays at Syracuse, but his injuries are just too severe to play any more college basketball.

Cuffe and Taylor go to a lower level of D1.

Starters: Brown, Mintz, Starling, Bell,Freeman

Rotation: 3-4Portal, Copeland, McLeod, Westry, Moore (starters and reserves in order of minutes)

End of bench: Carey, Patterson, 5 Portal

Replacing Taylor in the starting lineup with Freeman solves so many of the teams problems.

If Mintz leaves, if Carey leaves, that's two more guys who will either be late high school recruits or transfer players.

 

[dasher]

Every off season from now on is going to be like watching your pro team navigate free agency. Except, as a fan, you don't know the salary cap or player salary requests, because everything that is happening is technically illegal.

It's very hard to care about the roster until the games start these days. That said, let's give it a prediction.

With nobody graduating, and the team coming off a big win, it's easy to start getting optimistic about the future. But we will still have turnover, maybe a lot of it.

I think it's likely we get two new players in the portal. Then we have two freshman recruits.

Right now, we only have one opening... Every player on the team will have a decision to make this off season.

Some will be recruited to play elsewhere. Hopefully none of those guys accept... But we could have another Edwards situation. Williams and Mintz both came back last season, though, so Red has a couple solid points when it comes to keeping his guys. (The fact Williams didn't work out isn't reflective of how valuable it was for Red to recruit him back.)

Some of our players will not want to come back into low playing time. Who knows if Red will give of them nudges towards the door.

It's possible some might stop playing basketball voluntarily, and stay on scholarship at Syracuse without being part of the team.

My boldest prediction is that Mintz figures out he makes more money here than he could overseas, and decides to stick around.

McLeod recovers, and takes his natural place backing up Brown. A young portal big man comes in for limited minutes to replace Hima. Maybe a freshman redshirt somewhere else gets recruited over.

Starling, Bell, Westry and Copeland all come back a little bigger and a little better, and a little better paid.

Carey sticks around, and we eventually get to see if he's actually got real potential.

An Senior out Grad portal wing/big comes in to replace Williams, knowing he's got a battle to beat out Freeman as a starter. He figures his experience will help, and the money is way better than being the best player in a little conference.

I'd be excited if we had:

5 McLeod, portal, Patterson
4-5 Brown, Carey
4 Freeman
3-4 portal
3 Bell
2-3 Copeland, Westry
2 Moore
1-2 Starling, Mintz

Hima stays at Syracuse, but his injuries are just too severe to play any more college basketball.

Cuffe and Taylor go to a lower level of D1.

Starters: Brown, Mintz, Starling, Bell,Freeman

Rotation: 3-4Portal, Copeland, McLeod, Westry, Moore (starters and reserves in order of minutes)

End of bench: Carey, Patterson, 5 Portal

Replacing Taylor in the starting lineup with Freeman solves so many of the teams problems.

If Mintz leaves, if Carey leaves, that's two more guys who will either be late high school recruits or transfer players.

I was going to do the same thing after the UNC game but thought 1. maybe we should wait for the season to play out to know for sure who we wanted back and 2. maybe we should wait until the end of the year to run guys off. My thoughts right now, we need a good center in the portal. If we could get a kid that averaged 5 to 6 rebounds and 9 to 11 pts. we might be pretty good next year. If we believe in Bell at the 3, okay. And what happens with Mintz. I think the UNC game might have changed what we are going to look like the rest of the year and next year as well. Time will tell.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Completely agree with dasher's sentiments on letting the season play out. The fans are too bipolar depending on the last game.

• Mintz is a SG. We still need to recruit an actual PG who can elevate the rest of the team. 10 years and counting...
• We need a forward who can score at all 3 levels and plays consistent defense. If Bell continues to improve he can be a very good 6th man on a top 25 team, but he should not be promised anything re: next year. We can't overreact to a great shooting night vs UNC. Bottom line is when he isn't shooting well he still doesn't add much else.
• A skilled big man who is a reasonable threat to score. Doesn't have to be a low-post option. A stretch F/C ideally.

Taylor/Cuffe/Hima/Benny = 4 openings.

 

[MikeSU02]

Only limited by who we can get.

Judah I would guess is leaving.

Maliq, JJ, Q, Bell, Donnie and Elijah are here. And I’m not even 100% on that.

Chance is total guess on health.

Then we need to turn over the center position imo. Maybe keep one or two guys. Dunno. Can’t have four that can’t play.

 

[Sbucketball]

McLeod recovers, and takes his natural place backing up Brown. A young portal big man comes in for limited minutes to replace Hima. Maybe a freshman redshirt somewhere else gets recruited over.

If we get a portal center who isn't better than McLeod at what Red wants to do, I'll be very disappointed. We don't need another backup.

 

[Jzsshuttles]

Red loves Taylor. I just don’t see him leaving and I’m good with that. He’s got plenty of time to contribute here.

 

[grepal]

I think you need to be ready to add from 2 to 10 payers every year, coaching may pay well but this part has to stink.

 

[Fly Rodder]

 

[Niastri]

If we get a portal center who isn't better than McLeod at what Red wants to do, I'll be very disappointed. We don't need another backup.

Any center who considers coming to Syracuse will have to consider that Brown played almost all the center minutes this season, on a roster with 4 centers, no less. Also, we have a McDonald's All American coming in at Brown's other position.

Anybody really good won't be too worried about McLeod, I imagine, but might be worried about splitting time with Brown and Freeman.

It would be awesome if Red could overcome these concerns and get a top tier starter at center to come in via the portal, but I'm not optimistic.

 

[OCESIP]

Once you list all the reasons for a player to test the portal,
and they are many and varied, it's easy to match a player
with that particular reason. Players that are totally committed
to any program (including SU) are rare. When you look at the numbers,
the grass is greener elsewhere for a huge portion of college athletes
in today's world.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's interesting because we're having fan conversations about who we want to keep, but I think we'll also need to be wary about the reality that other programs are likely back channeling guys we have that they like a lot.

 

[CardiacCuse]

would like to see a PG, a power forward and a center added on top of the 2 recruits

wouldnt really understand if carey patterson and mcleod are all back fwiw...no way hima is back...wouldnt mind if all 4 backup centers are gone

cuffe isnt playing so not sure why he would even want to come back

taylor cannot continue to be a starter for this team...hes an end of the bench kinda guy, if anything

as far as judah...idk what his position is...and the team needs a PG badly

will certainly b interesting to see how it plays out

need some beef in the paint

 

[billsin01]

Every off season from now on is going to be like watching your pro team navigate free agency. Except, as a fan, you don't know the salary cap, the teams available budget or player salary requests, because everything that is happening is technically illegal. NIL had made recruiting and roster building more of a black box than ever.

It's very hard to care about the roster until the games start these days. That said, let's give it a prediction.

With nobody graduating, and the team coming off a big win, it's easy to start getting optimistic about the future. But we will still have turnover, maybe a lot of it.

I think it's likely we get two new players in the portal. Then we have two freshman recruits.

Right now, we only have one opening... Every player on the team will have a decision to make this off season.

Some will be recruited to play elsewhere. Hopefully none of those guys accept... But we could have another Edwards situation. Williams and Mintz both came back last season, though, so Red has a couple solid points when it comes to keeping his guys. (The fact Williams didn't work out isn't reflective of how valuable it was for Red to recruit him back.)

Some of our players will not want to come back into low playing time. Who knows if Red will give of them nudges towards the door.

It's possible some might stop playing basketball voluntarily, and stay on scholarship at Syracuse without being part of the team.

My boldest prediction is that Mintz figures out he makes more money here than he could overseas, and decides to stick around.

McLeod recovers, and takes his natural place backing up Brown. A young portal big man comes in for limited minutes to replace Hima. Maybe a freshman redshirt somewhere else gets recruited over.

Starling, Bell, Westry and Copeland all come back a little bigger and a little better, and a little better paid.

Carey sticks around, and we eventually get to see if he's actually got real potential.

An Senior out Grad portal wing/big comes in to replace Williams, knowing he's got a battle to beat out Freeman as a starter. He figures his experience will help, and the money is way better than being the best player in a little conference.

I'd be excited if we had:

5 McLeod, portal, Patterson
4-5 Brown, Carey
4 Freeman
3-4 portal
3 Bell
2-3 Copeland, Westry
2 Moore
1-2 Starling, Mintz

Hima stays at Syracuse, but his injuries are just too severe to play any more college basketball.

Cuffe and Taylor go to a lower level of D1.

Starters: Brown, Mintz, Starling, Bell,Freeman

Rotation: 3-4Portal, Copeland, McLeod, Westry, Moore (starters and reserves in order of minutes)

End of bench: Carey, Patterson, 5 Portal

Replacing Taylor in the starting lineup with Freeman solves so many of the teams problems.

If Mintz leaves, if Carey leaves, that's two more guys who will either be late high school recruits or transfer players.

Interesting take, particularly on Mintz.

I see it differently and I’m going to try and refrain from saying X player will leave, with two exceptions. I’ll also toss out the disclaimer that some one or two players we definitely want back could pull a Jesse Edwards and leave anyway, which would suck but is a potential reality.

So with that:

Very likely to return: Brown (we at least want him back), Cope, Starling — all three due to their play. Cuffe, Westry, McCleod because they have burned the free transfer. Patterson because I doubt he’d leave after redshirting. Possible, but doubtful.

New additions: Freeman, Moore, two or three others.

Gone: Benny, obviously

Likely gone: Mintz, Hima

Wild cards: Taylor, Bell, Carey

Analysis: Red likely needs to find a resolution with Hima because a good percentage of the fanbase was convinced he wasn’t the man for the job to begin with and another chunk can’t believe we don’t have 25 wins right now. So I’m not sure he can burn a scholly on a kid too injured to play. Crappy situation, but you need to find some sort of solution.

Cuffe missed two years with injury, didn’t play a ton this year and then would have to sit a year to transfer? Don’t see that happening. Think he stays. McCleod, not sure how much of a factor he’ll be but doubt he leaves before being a grad transfer at least.

Mintz — maybe the NIL money convinces him to stay but feel like a professional opportunity somewhere is the next step for him so he’s gone, IMO.

Could Brown get poached? I hope not.

The interesting group is Carey/Bell/Taylor and my gut says we only bring back 1. Carey still intrigues me, but I wonder about the injuries. Like, do they feel they can trust him to have a healthy off-season, preseason and season? I would kinda like to see him back b/c I think his profile is interesting for this system, but not sure.

Taylor/Bell are opposites in many ways but the same in one key way — they’re players with big holes in their games. My guess is the staff chooses one and encourages another to find a better opportunity elsewhere. To that end, my feeling is Taylor could really benefit from being somewhere where he can get touches. Needs confidence in his offense.

Bell I could see returning but what’s interesting is does he want to be somewhere where he plays 35 mpg and gets a ton of shots. Not sure that will be here. Maybe, but not sure.

Will be interesting to watch.

 

[billsin01]

Any center who considers coming to Syracuse will have to consider that Brown played almost all the center minutes this season, on a roster with 4 centers, no less. Also, we have a McDonald's All American coming in at Brown's other position.

Anybody really good won't be too worried about McLeod, I imagine, but might be worried about splitting time with Brown and Freeman.

It would be awesome if Red could overcome these concerns and get a top tier starter at center to come in via the portal, but I'm not optimistic.

I’d think the ideal fit would be a Baye Keita type. I mean, sure, we’d take Kentucky Anthony Davis but that ain’t happening. A center that could reasonably make things tough on smaller players on switches but hold up against bigs reasonably enough would be great. That’s even more true if Brown develops more offensively.

 

[HoustonCuse]

My best guess is Judah leaves, Bell transfers, Hima would have to be asked to leave but it's possible if 7'4 looks solidly healthy, and Brown will get a big bag someplace and could go (just because this is what happens now).

Presume that JJ, Quadir, Westry, Taylor, McLeod, Cuffe stay.

 

[richmondcuse03]

How do we keep Brown and Freeman on the court at same time?

 

[tptcuse]

How do we keep Brown and Freeman on the court at same time?

Good question. Freeman at the 3 or Brown at the 5?

 

[007]

How do we keep Brown and Freeman on the court at same time?

How do we play Brown, Bell and Taylor at the same time currently? Red is playing the combinations he is dealt. Brown and Freeman will be on floor at the same time IF that is the best combination relative to the rest of the roster composition. Whether or not that is an ideal situation is a different debate.

This entire exercise is irrelevant until we know who is staying, leaving, and coming.

 

[longtimefan]

Multiple transfers by a single player:

If this legal decision is extended or made permanent, everything changes.

NCAA athletes who've transferred multiple times can play through the spring semester, judge rules

College athletes who have transferred multiple times but were denied the chance to compete can now play through the remainder of the academic year.

apnews.com

 

[IthacaMatt]

Any center who considers coming to Syracuse will have to consider that Brown played almost all the center minutes this season, on a roster with 4 centers, no less. Also, we have a McDonald's All American coming in at Brown's other position.

Anybody really good won't be too worried about McLeod, I imagine, but might be worried about splitting time with Brown and Freeman.

It would be awesome if Red could overcome these concerns and get a top tier starter at center to come in via the portal, but I'm not optimistic.

I think you're overthinking this. I think if we can get a real center, with some bulk, they will play lots of minutes. At least 20 a game. Brown, Freeman and a third forward (probably Bell, unless we get somebody really good offensively from the Portal), can share most of the minutes at forward. If we do get a 4th forward who is an Elijah Hughes / Andrew White type of scorer, then you still have enough minutes to share among them, with Brown getting 20 minutes at center.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

I was going to do the same thing after the UNC game but thought 1. maybe we should wait for the season to play out to know for sure who we wanted back and 2. maybe we should wait until the end of the year to run guys off. My thoughts right now, we need a good center in the portal. If we could get a kid that averaged 5 to 6 rebounds and 9 to 11 pts. we might be pretty good next year. If we believe in Bell at the 3, okay. And what happens with Mintz. I think the UNC game might have changed what we are going to look like the rest of the year and next year as well. Time will tell.

Agree with everything except invert the center stats. Instead of 9-11 pts and 5-6 rebounds, I'd rather have 9-11 rebounds and 5-6 points. We need possessions more than points from the 5.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

would like to see a PG, a power forward and a center added on top of the 2 recruits

wouldnt really understand if carey patterson and mcleod are all back fwiw...no way hima is back...wouldnt mind if all 4 backup centers are gone

cuffe isnt playing so not sure why he would even want to come back

taylor cannot continue to be a starter for this team...hes an end of the bench kinda guy, if anything

as far as judah...idk what his position is...and the team needs a PG badly

will certainly b interesting to see how it plays out

need some beef in the paint

Everyone is dissing Taylor. Do you realize we only have six players right now that play on the team and he is one of them? Don’t you think deserves some credit for being there every game? Have you ever seen any plays that are run specifically for him? He moves on the floor for both offense and defense, set picks and at least tries for rebounds.

 

[Irt4su]

Why would Bell transfer? Hasn’t started enough games through his first two seasons? Only way he transfers is to go to a better team but he would maybe get less time. I don’t see him transferring. But I am wrong quite often.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Everyone is dissing Taylor. Do you realize we only have six players right now that play on the team and he is one of them? Don’t you think deserves some credit for being there every game? Have you ever seen any plays that are run specifically for him? He moves on the floor for both offense and defense, set picks and at least tries for rebounds.

The best ability is availability.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Everyone is dissing Taylor. Do you realize we only have six players right now that play on the team and he is one of them?

Ideally we have more than 6 players next season. Which this thread is about.