Thinking about Turnover and Next Years Lineup

[CuseFaninVT]

He hasn't played sustained minutes ever, including HS, and, when he has, he's been about as effective as JBA, Chinonso Obokoh, and worse than Hima. He's a tall dude who is kinda athletic.

Forgot he’s injured again. That happens when you haven’t watched any of the last 8-10 games.

 

[Cuse181]

So Maliq would leave to show solidarity and just uproot after two years? I don’t know, just sounds weird.

You can call it what it is, stupid.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

For Bell it's really a question of how he's going to respond to a challenge. I'd tell him no guarantees on playing time. He's going to have to bust his tail defensively and as a rebounder if he wants minutes, because we're bringing in a couple starting caliber portal guys and he has to earn playing time.

If his response to that is negative, then tell him he's probably better off elsewhere then. If his response to that is anywhere from, "Awesome, I want to win and I'll earn my minutes," to "You think they're better than me? I'll show you and earn my minutes!" we can work with that.

But I feel like from what we've seen this year, his response would not be ideal.

Did Bell not prove how he responds to a challenge when he sat games last season and came back into the starting lineup when he returned?

 

[HoustonCuse]

Bell just seems aggressively unhappy to me. That’s maybe a “body language” take, and it’s potentially very unfair. Just what concerns me about him going forward.

 

[Newhouser]

He’s had two or fewer turnovers in nine straight league games. He does get loose with the ball at times and there will be the occasional brutal turnover, but he’s also our most creative offensive player by a mile.

The problem with this board is that so many folks make declarations like he’s not starting talent. Copeland could start and be part of a very good team here. Same for Brown and JJ. Bell might be more of offense/shooting off the bench, but he could be part of a good team as well. Judah is frustrating but he’s a very, very good player nonetheless.

What we need to be able to do is find the right mix and next season with a few additions and likely a few departures and hope Red makes some progress as well. Will it happen? Not sure. Is red the guy Lon term? Jury remains out. Will we be basking in the glow of our return to prominence next season, I doubt it.

But people need to stop writing off every player who’s not Carmelo or sherm. We have some pieces, we need some more but we’re really not THAT far away from this team being in the tourney conversation. A healthy westry could make a bit of a difference. Freeman could make a bit of a difference. Maybe Brown continues to grow. Maybe we add a key portal piece or two. But swapping the entire roster down the toilet and bringing in 11 transfers doesn’t guarantee us a thing.

Qs biggest problem is his handle and his shot. Both take fundamental work.

 

[MikeSU02]

Did Bell not prove how he responds to a challenge when he sat games last season and came back into the starting lineup when he returned?

He’s been gift wrapped a starting position for 56 games. I have no idea how he’s had any challenges.

He’s out here getting in spats on social media calling out his stats while he’s been on two of the worst-ever Syracuse teams in the history of the program while starting.

Out of 26 games he’s started this year, he has had 1 or 0 assists in 23, with a season high of 3 in a game. He has more turnovers than assists this season.

Out of 26 games this season as a starting forward, he has 23 with 4 or fewer rebounds.

This is all on top of the rumblings of not exactly being the best locker room guy.

I like Bell. I think he’s gotten better. However, I think he’s been graded on a curve bc of how bad we are and guys like JT.

He hasn’t been challenged at all. He’s still starting every game. He’s getting in arguments with his teammates on camera, he’s calling out his scoring totals on social media. And, again, he’s still starting and has been.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Bell just seems aggressively unhappy to me. That’s maybe a “body language” take, and it’s potentially very unfair. Just what concerns me about him going forward.

His attitude reminds me of a starting teammate I had on JVs. If he got his points he was a good teammate and listened to the coaches. If he was having difficulties, he was a cancer. He also decided to walk out of practice sometimes and enlist another teammate to go up to the Hill and catch a couple SU games.

 

[UpstateSM]

Bell would nuts to leave on his own volition. There isn't a serious P6 program in the country that would give him the burn he gets here. He has it made.

 

[pokercuse08]

Did Bell not prove how he responds to a challenge when he sat games last season and came back into the starting lineup when he returned?

I don't think starting on this team this year proves much of anything. He's the only guy taking a volume of 3's who can shoot over 33% from 3, and we're literally running out of bodies.

I'm more interested in, did he get better as a player year over year?

His rebounds/minute are down, and he hasn't developed anything to his game other than the outside shot - which is better this year than last year.

Overall Reb/40min
Maliq 9.8
Cope 8.7
Taylor 7.1
Cuffe 4.1
Judah 3.8
JJ 3.7
Bell 3.5

That's just poor effort, given his size.

 

[Red2003]

Absolutely would not be scooped by every other P5 team. Come on.

He can shoot threes. He's a two-dribble player. Any teams that already have shooting wouldn't risk their lineup to grab him, especially since he may not exactly be an awesome locker room guy.

I like Bell. I think he should stay. He has work to do, though. He isn't remotely close to being good enough to have started every single game of his career here.

He's a 3 year starter in the ACC. This isn't just oh there's a few guys graduating type of year, most teams are losing almost all of their production with the Seniors and Super Seniors leaving. I'm not saying he'll start at a blue blood, but that phone will be ringing. First call will come from Brownell down in Klemson country.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He’s been gift wrapped a starting position for 56 games. I have no idea how he’s had any challenges.

He’s out here getting in spats on social media calling out his stats while he’s been on two of the worst-ever Syracuse teams in the history of the program while starting.

Out of 26 games he’s started this year, he has had 1 or 0 assists in 23, with a season high of 3 in a game. He has more turnovers than assists this season.

Out of 26 games this season as a starting forward, he has 23 with 4 or fewer rebounds.

This is all on top of the rumblings of not exactly being the best locker room guy.

I like Bell. I think he’s gotten better. However, I think he’s been graded on a curve bc of how bad we are and guys like JT.

He hasn’t been challenged at all. He’s still starting every game. He’s getting in arguments with his teammates on camera, he’s calling out his scoring totals on social media. And, again, he’s still starting and has been.

I mean, first off, it's ridiculous SYRACUSEFAN.COM POSTERS are running with the social media spat stuff. Like, just a hilarious lack of collective self-awareness from our community here.

Second, I'm not actually defending Bell's game. What I'm getting really cranky about is how quickly and accepted it has become for some of our fans to make limitations to a player's game into evidence of a lack of character for some of our players.

That's a big jump to conclusions, and also, weirdly not universally applied.

 

[pokercuse08]

I mean, first off, it's ridiculous SYRACUSEFAN.COM POSTERS are running with the social media spat stuff.

It's ridiculous that fans have an opinion on a player getting into arguments in DMs with fans of other teams on social media and bragging about his numbers? As we're not even on the bubble? And the team he's talking trash about is a 1/2 seed?

I mean, is your opinion that we should shut down the forum in between games and only do gameday threads?

That's a big jump to conclusions

We're all watching this guy's lack of effort rebounding, right?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I mean, is your opinion that we should shut down the forum in between games and only do gameday threads?

You're really not following what I'm saying.

 

[Fly Rodder]

That's a big jump to conclusions, and also, weirdly not universally applied.

Because Taylor? This is a weird hill you're choosing to attack. Taylor significantly lacks skill. Few people on here are defending his role and that he just needs a little encouragement and next season he could be a big time player. Most seem to expect that he transfers as a given. Though he still has a starting spot (and earlier this season, that was over Maliq Brown. Let that sink in).

I think that there are three main issues with this team preventing them from being tourney bound: 1) weak offensive philosophy whether attributable to Red's plan, or players not executing, or both; 2) lack of productive players in key roles; and 3) injuries (part of 2 as well). I really don't care how Red chooses to address those issues, only that he does.

 

[Red2003]

Because Taylor? This is a weird hill you're choosing to attack. Taylor significantly lacks skill. Few people on here are defending his role and that he just needs a little encouragement and next season he could be a big time player. Most seem to expect that he transfers as a given. Though he still has a starting spot (and earlier this season, that was over Maliq Brown. Let that sink in).

I think that there are three main issues with this team preventing them from being tourney bound: 1) weak offensive philosophy whether attributable to Red's plan, or players not executing, or both; 2) lack of productive players in key roles; and 3) injuries (part of 2 as well). I really don't care how Red chooses to address those issues, only that he does.

Hah. That is pretty funny actually. Brown watching Taylor, Bell and McLeod start over him.

 

[charleston]

Every off season from now on is going to be like watching your pro team navigate free agency. Except, as a fan, you don't know the salary cap, the teams available budget or player salary requests, because everything that is happening is technically illegal. NIL had made recruiting and roster building more of a black box than ever.

It's very hard to care about the roster until the games start these days. That said, let's give it a prediction.

With nobody graduating, and the team coming off a big win, it's easy to start getting optimistic about the future. But we will still have turnover, maybe a lot of it.

I think it's likely we get two new players in the portal. Then we have two freshman recruits.

Right now, we only have one opening... Every player on the team will have a decision to make this off season.

Some will be recruited to play elsewhere. Hopefully none of those guys accept... But we could have another Edwards situation. Williams and Mintz both came back last season, though, so Red has a couple solid points when it comes to keeping his guys. (The fact Williams didn't work out isn't reflective of how valuable it was for Red to recruit him back.)

Some of our players will not want to come back into low playing time. Who knows if Red will give of them nudges towards the door.

It's possible some might stop playing basketball voluntarily, and stay on scholarship at Syracuse without being part of the team.

My boldest prediction is that Mintz figures out he makes more money here than he could overseas, and decides to stick around.

McLeod recovers, and takes his natural place backing up Brown. A young portal big man comes in for limited minutes to replace Hima. Maybe a freshman redshirt somewhere else gets recruited over.

Starling, Bell, Westry and Copeland all come back a little bigger and a little better, and a little better paid.

Carey sticks around, and we eventually get to see if he's actually got real potential.

An Senior out Grad portal wing/big comes in to replace Williams, knowing he's got a battle to beat out Freeman as a starter. He figures his experience will help, and the money is way better than being the best player in a little conference.

I'd be excited if we had:

5 McLeod, portal, Patterson
4-5 Brown, Carey
4 Freeman
3-4 portal
3 Bell
2-3 Copeland, Westry
2 Moore
1-2 Starling, Mintz

Hima stays at Syracuse, but his injuries are just too severe to play any more college basketball.

Cuffe and Taylor go to a lower level of D1.

Starters: Brown, Mintz, Starling, Bell,Freeman

Rotation: 3-4Portal, Copeland, McLeod, Westry, Moore (starters and reserves in order of minutes)

End of bench: Carey, Patterson, 5 Portal

Replacing Taylor in the starting lineup with Freeman solves so many of the teams problems.

If Mintz leaves, if Carey leaves, that's two more guys who will either be late high school recruits or transfer players.

Cuff has portential...he should not leave ..they need to find a shooter and a center/rebounder

 

[djcon57]

Cuff has portential...he should not leave ..they need to find a shooter and a center/rebounder

Believe Cuffe is technically, basically a freshman as well...which people tend to forget (I know I do). He's got 3 years left. We should absolutely try to keep him.

 

[Red2003]

Believe Cuffe is technically, basically a freshman as well...which people tend to forget (I know I do). He's got 3 years left. We should absolutely try to keep him.

Yea good call. he’s not going anywhere anyway I don’t think. Autry needs to figure out his role. He had that huge dunk when he finally got in and I was like ok we got this. Then just fizzled out. Don’t need him taking 3’s that’s for sure.

 

[two3zone]

Did Bell not prove how he responds to a challenge when he sat games last season and came back into the starting lineup when he returned?

How many times do you have to challenge someone? Seems like a very high maintenanced situation, if he acts the way he does on tv what is he doing behind the scenes?

 

[two3zone]

He’s been gift wrapped a starting position for 56 games. I have no idea how he’s had any challenges.

He’s out here getting in spats on social media calling out his stats while he’s been on two of the worst-ever Syracuse teams in the history of the program while starting.

Out of 26 games he’s started this year, he has had 1 or 0 assists in 23, with a season high of 3 in a game. He has more turnovers than assists this season.

Out of 26 games this season as a starting forward, he has 23 with 4 or fewer rebounds.

This is all on top of the rumblings of not exactly being the best locker room guy.

I like Bell. I think he’s gotten better. However, I think he’s been graded on a curve bc of how bad we are and guys like JT.

He hasn’t been challenged at all. He’s still starting every game. He’s getting in arguments with his teammates on camera, he’s calling out his scoring totals on social media. And, again, he’s still starting and has been.

Bell really argues on social media? Why haven’t I seen this?

 

[MikeSU02]

I mean, first off, it's ridiculous SYRACUSEFAN.COM POSTERS are running with the social media spat stuff. Like, just a hilarious lack of collective self-awareness from our community here.

Second, I'm not actually defending Bell's game. What I'm getting really cranky about is how quickly and accepted it has become for some of our fans to make limitations to a player's game into evidence of a lack of character for some of our players.

That's a big jump to conclusions, and also, weirdly not universally applied.

I think it’s good you have a flag for people jumping to conclusions. Truly.

But I don’t think Judah or Q or JT are bad character guys. I think Judah is pressing bc of his NBA situation. Q just seems like a vocal/passionate dude. JT, well, he’s in a funk so bad the students booed him (even tho they shouldn’t have) and he’s not producing at all.

And if they were to have had some bad moments, that doesn’t make them bad people. That’s just life.

I’m not saying Bell is a bad character kid. Or that that character is why he’s not a perfect bball player.

My issue with Bell is he was gifted a starting spot from day one. He doesn’t pass. He doesn’t rebound for his position. I’m not really a fan of anyone seen arguing with each other on tv. And it’s not great if he’s calling out his stats on socials for his own well being. I’m measuring more against Bell in terms of expectations because for the others:

Judah still has a PER over 20 and has talent even if he drives me nuts.

Q is the only guard that looks to get more people involved and he’s a bench guy.

JT needs to find the wizard of oz of basketball confidence and ability bc he is broken.

Bell… well, he’s started 56 games. In the two years he’s been starting, we have 25 losses to date. That’s obviously not on him (and Judahs in the same boat), but when you have started every game, had a PER less than 10 last year, still haven’t rounded out your game this year and had to stop downing processed foods and sugar to take ball seriously, I dunno, what do you want me to say?

It’s awesome when he’s on hitting threes. Period.

I’m not giving him a cookie (figuratively) for being moderately more healthy when he’s a bball player in the ACC. Credit to him for hitting threes. Credit to him for at times trying on D and boarding once in a while.

I don’t think he’s a bad kid. All kids that age are dumb, including me.

BUT, if Judah and Bell are giving Red guff during games and not listening, that’s an issue. But, again, it doesn’t make them bad people.

 

[Red2003]

I think it’s good you have a flag for people jumping to conclusions. Truly.

But I don’t think Judah or Q or JT are bad character guys. I think Judah is pressing bc of his NBA situation. Q just seems like a vocal/passionate dude. JT, well, he’s in a funk so bad the students booed him (even tho they shouldn’t have) and he’s not producing at all.

And if they were to have had some bad moments, that doesn’t make them bad people. That’s just life.

I’m not saying Bell is a bad character kid. Or that that character is why he’s not a perfect bball player.

My issue with Bell is he was gifted a starting spot from day one. He doesn’t pass. He doesn’t rebound for his position. I’m not really a fan of anyone seen arguing with each other on tv. And it’s not great if he’s calling out his stats on socials for his own well being. I’m measuring more against Bell in terms of expectations because for the others:

Judah still has a PER over 20 and has talent even if he drives me nuts.

Q is the only guard that looks to get more people involved and he’s a bench guy.

JT needs to find the wizard of oz of basketball confidence and ability bc he is broken.

Bell… well, he’s started 56 games. In the two years he’s been starting, we have 25 losses to date. That’s obviously not on him (and Judahs in the same boat), but when you have started every game, had a PER less than 10 last year, still haven’t rounded out your game this year and had to stop downing processed foods and sugar to take ball seriously, I dunno, what do you want me to say?

It’s awesome when he’s on hitting threes. Period.

I’m not giving him a cookie (figuratively) for being moderately more healthy when he’s a bball player in the ACC. Credit to him for hitting threes. Credit to him for at times trying on D and boarding once in a while.

I don’t think he’s a bad kid. All kids that age are dumb, including me.

BUT, if Judah and Bell are giving Red guff during games and not listening, that’s an issue. But, again, it doesn’t make them bad people.

Really interesting offseason coming at the SF position.

Autry is going to have to sit Bell and Chance down to say they’re competing against each other for a starting spot and then he still needs some help rebounding at the 3 so maybe another portal guy will be there too. And let’s not forget Q.

I really have no idea what Bell will do. Right now at the dome he can win us games all on his own shooting but is just a trainwrkeck on the road. Autry is going to be looking for defense over offense and that puts Bell in a tough spot.

 

[tptcuse]

Bell really argues on social media? Why haven’t I seen this?

Chris Bell..

 

[Day2]

I don’t see why people think Brown will leave.? It’s totally against everything he is.

One word: clickbait.

 

[BillSU]

Chris Bell..

I don’t think Mintz is going anywhere, unless he wants to play in the G league or Europe.

So, it’s going to be Starling and Mintz, again. Maybe Judah could lose some of his ego and pass the ball next year. Gerry could work with him about his attitude and 3 PT production.

I think the coaches evaluate the recruits very well and they’ve done that for incoming, IMO.

It’s like a fresh start next year. Red will have the team he kind of wants , hopefully. Not JB’s leftovers.

The departures will be gone but watch out for the incoming. So far we have two four stars, a shooting guard in 6’4” Moore, and 6’ 9” power forward in Donnie Freeman. But, no one can predict how they will react to play at this level.

(ov)= official visit, (uv) unofficial visit, But there is a long list of players we are recruiting, some of whom are close to SU. However it’s a crap shoot to really know who’s going to be here and who’s not. Then, they are all freshman, again. Who knows how they’ll adjust to HIGH LEVEL play?

They are in no particular order: 4 Stars all. SG Kiyan Anthony(ov), PG Nigel James(ov), G Derek Dixon (ov), PF Matthew Gilhool (ov), Sadik White (ov), PG Tyler Jackson (uv), SF London Jamison (uv), PG Jerry Easter, Cam Ward, PG Deron Rippey, visiting Saturday.

Next year will be a good if we bring in, besides the two already signed, one or two of the above trouble is, again, they are all freshman and not half the talent of a Melo.

Out of the portal, we need a BIG, a non – skinny, good one and someone who can play forward shoot 3’s and make them.

I see leaving: Justin Taylor, Cuffe, Clayton, Ruffin, Westry, Gatty, Hima, Carey.

The Caveat here is if Taylor leaves will Brown go with him? I see, as others have, Taylor at the end of the bench, a sub. Perhaps he will get his groove back and play well again. I am not taking chances getting rid of him and his buddy Brown going also – he’s too valuable.

Bell, say what you want about his social media blurts but he's 64 - 163 .393% highest on the team.