This is way more difficult than most think

[kcsu]

I watched the game for a second time early this morning and came away with these thoughts. First of all LV has much better talent across the board than we do. It is obvious to see that they are in the top 5 teams in the entire ACC not just our division as they are loaded. Bobby hate him or not is a great coach. There is not doubt that he is also top 5 in the ACC so getting our arses handed to us didnt surprise me. Still if ED doesnt throw the six pick i think that we hang with these guys and possibly win. MO is huge with young kids and another score at that point was what we needed. Why the heck Lester called an out pattern with 2nd and 1 is beyond me. Get the first down and run clock doing so by running the ball. After that pick the team just went flat you could see it on the sideline shots and you could see it in the effort. They simply had the wind knocked out of them almost like oh sh... t here we go again.

As to our coaching i stand by what i have posted before. HCSS and his guys know how to coach D. They are simply out gunned. Next year as these kids grow up it will be a much different story. As to Lester i think it might be some of the same. He is playing with true frosh at key positions and we are thin. I know that i keep bitching about the Oline but they are pathetic. WR is weak as Bris is playing out of position and Ish has nobody to take the pressure off. Not sure why we dont give Custis a go as he can match up physically with anyone on any team. Head scratcher for sure.

Now onto the big picture. I believe that the decision to keep Shafer is beyond huge. Bees posted that we cant make a move just to make a move and he is 1000% correct. Change for change sake is never a good thing. It might feel good for a season but long term if Coyle doesnt get this right it is going to set up back 5 years.

Unless the team just gives up on HCSS i stand by my position that he should be given one more year as well as a public statement regarding an extension. The extension can be 1 year with a very low buyout say 250-500k max. In addition if im Coyle i dont place any demands on Shafer relative to replacing coaches. Let him make his own bed. If he wants to retain the band even though Adam and Reed in my opinion should be let go so be it. I know that everyone wants a public hanging and i agree that it is warranted. But again for the programs sake i believe that after next year we will be in much better strategic position to make that move. Kids are not going to transfer after their Soph year, we keep this class together, we dont eat a buyout and most importantly Coyle has time to truly plan and make a solid pick. There are just too many better jobs available this year and i dont want to make change for change sake.

I hope that the team pulls off a miracle and plays Clemson tough, as well as wins the last two as it will make everything easier for Coyle.

Go Orange!!

 

[CaliBob'63]

A reasonable assessment.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I watched the game for a second time early this morning and came away with these thoughts. First of all LV has much better talent across the board than we do. It is obvious to see that they are in the top 5 teams in the entire ACC not just our division as they are loaded. Bobby hate him or not is a great coach. There is not doubt that he is also top 5 in the ACC so getting our arses handed to us didnt surprise me. Still if ED doesnt throw the six pick i think that we hang with these guys and possibly win. MO is huge with young kids and another score at that point was what we needed. Why the heck Lester called an out pattern with 2nd and 1 is beyond me. Get the first down and run clock doing so by running the ball. After that pick the team just went flat you could see it on the sideline shots and you could see it in the effort. They simply had the wind knocked out of them almost like oh sh... t here we go again.

As to our coaching i stand by what i have posted before. HCSS and his guys know how to coach D. They are simply out gunned. Next year as these kids grow up it will be a much different story. As to Lester i think it might be some of the same. He is playing with true frosh at key positions and we are thin. I know that i keep bitching about the Oline but they are pathetic. WR is weak as Bris is playing out of position and Ish has nobody to take the pressure off. Not sure why we dont give Custis a go as he can match up physically with anyone on any team. Head scratcher for sure.

Now onto the big picture. I believe that the decision to keep Shafer is beyond huge. Bees posted that we cant make a move just to make a move and he is 1000% correct. Change for change sake is never a good thing. It might feel good for a season but long term if Coyle doesnt get this right it is going to set up back 5 years.

Unless the team just gives up on HCSS i stand by my position that he should be given one more year as well as a public statement regarding an extension. The extension can be 1 year with a very low buyout say 250-500k max. In addition if im Coyle i dont place any demands on Shafer relative to replacing coaches. Let him make his own bed. If he wants to retain the band even though Adam and Reed in my opinion should be let go so be it. I know that everyone wants a public hanging and i agree that it is warranted. But again for the programs sake i believe that after next year we will be in much better strategic position to make that move. Kids are not going to transfer after their Soph year, we keep this class together, we dont eat a buyout and most importantly Coyle has time to truly plan and make a solid pick. There are just too many better jobs available this year and i dont want to make change for change sake.

I hope that the team pulls off a miracle and plays Clemson tough, as well as wins the last two as it will make everything easier for Coyle.

Go Orange!!

I believe you have defined the path of insanity, my friend. It's over. It's time to move forward.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Oh stop. It isn't that difficult. Coyle needs to do his job and go hire a good football coach. Geeze. This isn't an issue of national security. Shafer has had his shot, he's turrible.

The university can get it done as well.

 

[Cusefan78]

I watched the game for a second time early this morning and came away with these thoughts. First of all LV has much better talent across the board than we do. It is obvious to see that they are in the top 5 teams in the entire ACC not just our division as they are loaded. Bobby hate him or not is a great coach. There is not doubt that he is also top 5 in the ACC so getting our arses handed to us didnt surprise me. Still if ED doesnt throw the six pick i think that we hang with these guys and possibly win. MO is huge with young kids and another score at that point was what we needed. Why the heck Lester called an out pattern with 2nd and 1 is beyond me. Get the first down and run clock doing so by running the ball. After that pick the team just went flat you could see it on the sideline shots and you could see it in the effort. They simply had the wind knocked out of them almost like oh sh... t here we go again.

As to our coaching i stand by what i have posted before. HCSS and his guys know how to coach D. They are simply out gunned. Next year as these kids grow up it will be a much different story. As to Lester i think it might be some of the same. He is playing with true frosh at key positions and we are thin. I know that i keep bitching about the Oline but they are pathetic. WR is weak as Bris is playing out of position and Ish has nobody to take the pressure off. Not sure why we dont give Custis a go as he can match up physically with anyone on any team. Head scratcher for sure.

Now onto the big picture. I believe that the decision to keep Shafer is beyond huge. Bees posted that we cant make a move just to make a move and he is 1000% correct. Change for change sake is never a good thing. It might feel good for a season but long term if Coyle doesnt get this right it is going to set up back 5 years.

Unless the team just gives up on HCSS i stand by my position that he should be given one more year as well as a public statement regarding an extension. The extension can be 1 year with a very low buyout say 250-500k max. In addition if im Coyle i dont place any demands on Shafer relative to replacing coaches. Let him make his own bed. If he wants to retain the band even though Adam and Reed in my opinion should be let go so be it. I know that everyone wants a public hanging and i agree that it is warranted. But again for the programs sake i believe that after next year we will be in much better strategic position to make that move. Kids are not going to transfer after their Soph year, we keep this class together, we dont eat a buyout and most importantly Coyle has time to truly plan and make a solid pick. There are just too many better jobs available this year and i dont want to make change for change sake.

I hope that the team pulls off a miracle and plays Clemson tough, as well as wins the last two as it will make everything easier for Coyle.

Go Orange!!

as far as coaching changes I really feel at this point shafer has made his bed. If he comes back he will be a lame duck unless he wins next year. No good coach will come for a one off job. I hope you're right but if coyle does make a change I feel better about it then I would if gross was still in charge.

 

[Vorony]

If Coyle gives him 1 more year with an announcement of an extension, that will be it for the fanbase. There's the small percentage of diehards who will continue to support the program through thick and thin. And then there's the general fanbase - who has all but jumped off the train. 14 years of football ranging from truly abysmal to just mediocre... the general fanbase is done with it. If the university wants to get people back in the dome for games, they need to make the change now. People have seen enough.

 

[Cusefan78]

If Coyle gives him 1 more year with an announcement of an extension, that will be it for the fanbase. There's the small percentage of diehards who will continue to support the program through thick and thin. And then there's the general fanbase - who has all but jumped off the train. 14 years of football ranging from truly abysmal to just mediocre... the general fanbase is done with it. If the university wants to get people back in the dome for games, they need to make the change now. People have seen enough.

Can't make a change now. That would be way too much of a disruption. Have to get replacement pieces lined up first. Hiring a coach without a plan got us here.

 

[Vorony]

Can't make a change now. That would be way too much of a disruption. Have to get replacement pieces lined up first. Hiring a coach without a plan got us here.

Sorry... Meant "now" as in this year. When the season is over.

 

[donniesyracuse]

It is a reasonable position, but also filled with wishful thinking.

 

[baggerbob]

I watched the game for a second time early this morning and came away with these thoughts. First of all LV has much better talent across the board than we do. It is obvious to see that they are in the top 5 teams in the entire ACC not just our division as they are loaded. Bobby hate him or not is a great coach. There is not doubt that he is also top 5 in the ACC so getting our arses handed to us didnt surprise me. Still if ED doesnt throw the six pick i think that we hang with these guys and possibly win. MO is huge with young kids and another score at that point was what we needed. Why the heck Lester called an out pattern with 2nd and 1 is beyond me. Get the first down and run clock doing so by running the ball. After that pick the team just went flat you could see it on the sideline shots and you could see it in the effort. They simply had the wind knocked out of them almost like oh sh... t here we go again.

As to our coaching i stand by what i have posted before. HCSS and his guys know how to coach D. They are simply out gunned. Next year as these kids grow up it will be a much different story. As to Lester i think it might be some of the same. He is playing with true frosh at key positions and we are thin. I know that i keep bitching about the Oline but they are pathetic. WR is weak as Bris is playing out of position and Ish has nobody to take the pressure off. Not sure why we dont give Custis a go as he can match up physically with anyone on any team. Head scratcher for sure.

Now onto the big picture. I believe that the decision to keep Shafer is beyond huge. Bees posted that we cant make a move just to make a move and he is 1000% correct. Change for change sake is never a good thing. It might feel good for a season but long term if Coyle doesnt get this right it is going to set up back 5 years.

Unless the team just gives up on HCSS i stand by my position that he should be given one more year as well as a public statement regarding an extension. The extension can be 1 year with a very low buyout say 250-500k max. In addition if im Coyle i dont place any demands on Shafer relative to replacing coaches. Let him make his own bed. If he wants to retain the band even though Adam and Reed in my opinion should be let go so be it. I know that everyone wants a public hanging and i agree that it is warranted. But again for the programs sake i believe that after next year we will be in much better strategic position to make that move. Kids are not going to transfer after their Soph year, we keep this class together, we dont eat a buyout and most importantly Coyle has time to truly plan and make a solid pick. There are just too many better jobs available this year and i dont want to make change for change sake.

I hope that the team pulls off a miracle and plays Clemson tough, as well as wins the last two as it will make everything easier for Coyle.

Go Orange!!

One thing no one has touched upon, and needs to be addressed. Since Rob Moore left our receivers have been bad. He might have been a bad recruiter, but he could coach the position. He took 2 guys with average talent in Lemon, and Sales. and put them among the career leaders in receptions, and TD's. They were as much the key to the 2012 offense as Ryan was. West never got better after Rob left, pretty much stayed the same.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

One thing no one has touched upon, and needs to be addressed. Since Rob Moore left our receivers have been bad. He might have been a bad recruiter, but he could coach the position. He took 2 guys with average talent in Lemon, and Sales. and put them among the career leaders in receptions, and TD's. They were as much the key to the 2012 offense as Ryan was. West never got better after Rob left, pretty much stayed the same.

From what I gather, Moore was a terrible recruiter. We can't really afford that.

 

[Willy75]

Our HC would get an interview for which open P5 job(s)? But we should be talking about an extension? This is alternate universe stuff.
The thing that's more difficult than people think is coming up with arguments for keeping Shafer.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Our HC would get an interview for which open P5 job(s)? But we should be talking about an extension? This is alternate universe stuff.
The thing that's more difficult than people think is coming up with arguments for keeping Shafer.

I think the thing that's way more difficult to do than most people think is us being this bad for this long.

 

[kcsu]

Oh stop. It isn't that difficult. Coyle needs to do his job and go hire a good football coach. Geeze. This isn't an issue of national security. Shafer has had his shot, he's turrible.

The university can get it done as well.

IB is is really difficult. Take a look at other schools. I would say a 50% success rate at best and it doesnt really seem to matter what you pay. My point is simple. If he can get his guy this year of course go for it. If Coyle isnt 100% sure about the next guy this year i believe that we are better off waiting. I have been going to games since i could walk. I think 62 was my first year. I hate what has become of this program and i have zero doubt that HCSS is not our long term solution. I just want to make sure that the next move is a great one.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

IB is is really difficult. Take a look at other schools. I would say a 50% success rate at best and it doesnt really seem to matter what you pay. My point is simple. If he can get his guy this year of course go for it. If Coyle isnt 100% sure about the next guy this year i believe that we are better off waiting. I have been going to games since i could walk. I think 62 was my first year. I hate what has become of this program and i have zero doubt that HCSS is not our long term solution. I just want to make sure that the next move is a great one.

My bar is a lot lower.

I want somebody that has college offense as their top priority. Pretty straightforward. Would be nice to give that a try at least. Closest we ever got was a coach that knew some stuff about good NFL offense. I'm willing to tolerate bad but different at this point.

 

[Crusty]

Lester's offense is a failure. Only BC is worse in the ACC. As noted in another thread, McDonald's offense in 2013 has better stats in almost every category. We are 117th out of 128 nationally.

Have you noticed how every DC makes adjustments to which Lester has no answer? He is not a D1 OC.

Nuff said?

 

[orangepassion]

I just want to make sure that the next move is a great one.

There's never a guarantee, even if you wait a year

 

[bevosu]

It is a reasonable position, but also filled with wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking is the thing that has kept all of us diehards watching (and hoping) for the past 15 years. The "general" fan left the stage a few years ago. I don't blame them.

Wishful thinking hasn't done the trick. The university has to get serious about backing a competitive football program...not sure they see it that way?

 

[Chip]

I don't get this change for change's sake talk. What does that even mean?

If Coyle decides to make a change, I'm sure he has a plan and process for how it will go.

If the next guy fails, it will be unfortunate, but it won't be because he said I'll take anyone different at this point and settled.

 

[elimunelson]

Difficult is watching this staff.

Enjoying is watching something grow even if it's a rebuild. Not sure how much a rebuild will b when it's already burnt to ground

 

[upperdeck]

we lack an oline and a #1 Wr. no offense is going to work without both no matter how much millhouse says we should just pass pass pass.. did you see anyone open yesterday? estime is fine in space, but below avg hands and runs horrible routes. ish has decent hands but cant get off the line, our RB are ok but the oline creates no space so we have to run crazy plays just to try and get a decent run, but any time the D thinks the run is coming we are dead. this is the worst oline in years. phillips is good in space too , but drops half the passes, big drop yesterday led to a FG and not a 14-7 lead.


but really the game turned at 10-7 but not on the pick, it was the play before. we were moving it a bit and phillips had a nice gain, but as our RBs have shown they have HS instincts. he should have finished the play for the first down but tried to undercut the play and left us in 2nd down and the QB made a poor decision on the out route. . still there is no reason for a DB to be jumping that route except he wasnt scared of us going deep at all.

we cant get behind anyone without a complete breakdown, we need speed at WR in the worst way

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Don't get the drama of the whole scenario. We fire the current coach, buy him out and hope we hire a better one, which shouldn't be too difficult l. I don't get why people feel like coyle has a gun to his head. If we stink 3 years from now you repeat the process. It's not s big deal

 

[Deano]

Don't get the drama of the whole scenario. We fire the current coach, buy him out and hope we hire a better one, which shouldn't be too difficult l. I don't get why people feel like coyle has a gun to his head. If we stink 3 years from now you repeat the process. It's not s big deal

Yeah Kansas is good at it.

 

[Alsacs]

I mean seriously. What universe do we live in. A coach that has gone 6-15 and we are suggesting even a phony extension.
Our program is an afterthought and we want to stay the course.
We need change and not more of the same thing.

I think SS is likable man but nothing screams HC about the man. I will wish the best in his future endeavors but if he is the HC next year then we will have a complete apathetic program.

 

[leftytg]

I don't get this change for change's sake talk. What does that even mean?

If Coyle decides to make a change, I'm sure he has a plan and process for how it will go.

If the next guy fails, it will be unfortunate, but it won't be because he said I'll take anyone different at this point and settled.

I'm seeing this "don't make change for change's sake" bubble up as a rationale to keep Shafer, and it is just astounding to me the lengths some will go to rationalize keeping an obviously failed coach.

The admonition to not make change for change's sake makes sense in certain contexts. For instance, I'm good friends with hard core Georgia fans. They've wanted to dump Richt for the past six or seven years. They felt that, sure, Richt can be counted on for 8-10 wins a year, but he had a ceiling and the team would never win the big prize under Richt. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but in that situation you could warn such fans against making change for change's sake, as one is making the assumption that just any coach will keep up the consistent standard that Richt set.

Put another way - there isn't a whole lot of room for a new coach to be worse than Shafer.

The Syracuse program is a dumpster fire right now. Shafer has shown that he is a failed head coach, and somehow the argument becomes that because the next coach may possibly also not be 100% guaranteed to be successful, that keeping (the already proven to be inept) Shafer is the right move. That's nuts!

It is a false dichotomy to suggest that the only options are 1) Someone Coyle feels 100% good about and 2) Shafer.

The list of coaches Coyle, or anyone, would feel could do a better job than what Shafer is doing now is a very, very long one.