This place is turing into Syracuse.com

[OrangeXtreme]

I'm going to keep saying it until it sinks in - if you want a full Dome, you better have a team with some style points.

Putting on a show > really sincerely asking people to come to games.

What does "putting on a show" mean to you?

Installing Jack Pardee's run-and-shoot offense and sending 4 WR's on every play? It might be a problem since we don't have any WR's that can consistently get open.

Through 6 games we're at 189 rushes, and 194 passes. I don't expect the balance to change.

At the end of the day, fans won't remember the show, they'll only remember who won.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

At the end of the day, fans won't remember the show, they'll only remember who won.

There are 12,000 empty seats in the Carrier Dome that suggest otherwise.

I'm really getting tired of how statements like that get tossed around. The fan isn't so simple minded. The fan is a sophisticated consumer. They should be treated as such. Any old product isn't good enough - if you want to attract fans you need to offer the best product.

Is the offense we trot out the best product we can? Judging it against the general landscape in college football right now I would have to say it is not.

My definition of putting on a show is playing high scoring aesthetic football. Due to the conditions in which we're privileged to play, I am not content with any offense that does that - I think we need to play to our institutional strengths and adopt a pass happy, high paced offense. Do fans even realize that we're the only BCS program lucky enough to play in the stable conditions of a Dome? The only one, and we leave so much benefit on the table by not playing to the strengths of a Dome.

 

[Scooch]

At the end of the day, fans won't remember the show, they'll only remember who won.

Not Syracuse fans.

Over the past 19 games we're 12-7, and yet Gross will need to run our usual promotion of free tickets with unlimited vodka and handies to get more than 35K to turnout next Friday.

 

[Scooch]

And FWIW, it's an insult to the people who run this site to call say it's like Syracuse.com.

 

[storange]

Posts suggesting that Marrone be fired and posts suggesting that as long as we win, no criticism is valid are equally ridiculous.

agree

 

[Bayside44]

There are 12,000 empty seats in the Carrier Dome that suggest otherwise.

I'm really getting tired of how statements like that get tossed around. The fan isn't so simple minded. The fan is a sophisticated consumer. They should be treated as such. Any old product isn't good enough - if you want to attract fans you need to offer the best product.

Is the offense we trot out the best product we can? Judging it against the general landscape in college football right now I would have to say it is not.

My definition of putting on a show is playing high scoring aesthetic football. Due to the conditions in which we're privileged to play, I am not content with any offense that does that - I think we need to play to our institutional strengths and adopt a pass happy, high paced offense. Do fans even realize that we're the only BCS program lucky enough to play in the stable conditions of a Dome? The only one, and we leave so much benefit on the table by not playing to the strengths of a Dome.

If the fan is so sophisticated, they would realize that they are lucky enough to be one of the 65 or so places in the country that play BCS football. For you to say that this is any old product is simplistic. Like it or lump it, we've undergone a huge roster overhaul in the past couple of seasons, and that we're churning out wins and headed towards another bowl eligible year is a huge positive.

We have two with an emerging third upperclassmen at WR, an undersized RB, took on a few losses (Sales, PTG, I guess Timbers), a pretty average yet durable QB. And apparently a lot of kids not field-ready. Not sure what the sophisticated class is expecting with that.

 

[qdawgg]

There are 12,000 empty seats in the Carrier Dome that suggest otherwise.

I'm really getting tired of how statements like that get tossed around. The fan isn't so simple minded. The fan is a sophisticated consumer. They should be treated as such. Any old product isn't good enough - if you want to attract fans you need to offer the best product.

Is the offense we trot out the best product we can? Judging it against the general landscape in college football right now I would have to say it is not.

My definition of putting on a show is playing high scoring aesthetic football. Due to the conditions in which we're privileged to play, I am not content with any offense that does that - I think we need to play to our institutional strengths and adopt a pass happy, high paced offense. Do fans even realize that we're the only BCS program lucky enough to play in the stable conditions of a Dome? The only one, and we leave so much benefit on the table by not playing to the strengths of a Dome.

I haven't sat next to too many sophisticated consumers at the dome in my years of attending games, so to imply that some of the fair weather fans are actually sophisticated football consumers is a joke. But at least it makes your point I guess.

If scoring points at will was so easy everyone would be doing it.

 

[Scooch]

One more thought...

I agree that people suggesting Marrone's job should be in jeopardy are insane.

But, aside from those wackadoos, it is possible to both be happy about 4-2 and upset about the play of this team. The comment that "all is well" is just as crazy as someone saying Marrone should be fired.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Is the offense we trot out the best product we can? Judging it against the general landscape in college football right now I would have to say it is not.

My definition of putting on a show is playing high scoring aesthetic football. Due to the conditions in which we're privileged to play, I am not content with any offense that does that - I think we need to play to our institutional strengths and adopt a pass happy, high paced offense. Do fans even realize that we're the only BCS program lucky enough to play in the stable conditions of a Dome? The only one, and we leave so much benefit on the table by not playing to the strengths of a Dome.

Maybe someday when SU has 5 Calvin Johnson clones on the depth chart, you might see the pass happy offense you crave.

In the meantime, Marrone has to make do with the players he has and play to his personnel strenghts and weaknesses.

The last coach tried to run an offense that he didn't have the right players for ... how'd that work out?

 

[baggerbob]

You might not be happy about close wins, but they are wins. Coach is rebuilding a program that was almost at zero. Rome wasn't built overnight and to get back to being a top notch program is still going to take a few more years. Talent over the long haul still beats a special system. We still need 2 or 3 good recruiting classes to get back to being a good but not great program.

 

[Chip]

One more thought...

I agree that people suggesting Marrone's job should be in jeopardy are insane.

But, aside from those wackadoos, it is possible to both be happy about 4-2 and upset about the play of this team. The comment that "all is well" is just as crazy as someone saying Marrone should be fired.

In a strange way I find it refreshing that fans complain about the wins. Do I think some are crazy? Sure, and cleary I'd be right. But we are a winning program again and have expectations.

This place isn't turning into syracuse.com, read one thread under any article and tell me this place isn't 5 million times more realistic and readable. Couple dead branches aren't killing the tree.

There's concern that we can't keep winning these types of games, and losing to Rutgers made people remember that. And yes, it can be frustrating watching WVU's offense go from pedestrian to incredible in one year with the same players and then hearing, it's the talent not the coaching. Umm, say huh? Do people type that with a straight face?

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

why have a board at all. maybe a couple of people can post and the rest of us be lucky to read it. Sounds like a plan. You can be glad your team won but wish they did things differently. That is still okay here isn't it.

^^^^^^^^^+1

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

Today we have people posting that they wish Marrone would step down.
This is just insane.

 

[Scooch]

And yes, it can be frustrating watching WVU's offense go from pedestrian to incredible in one year with the same players and then hearing, it's the talent not the coaching. Umm, say huh? Do people type that with a straight face?

People saying it's entirely about talent are being just as ridiculously black-and-white as those saying Marrone is a meathead who needs firing.

I've seen enough from Nassib, Bailey, Harris, Chew, Lemon and Provo to know that there is *something* there. Not something great, but maybe something average. And we are so far below average at this point it's mind-boggling. People will then leap in to say that it's the terrible OL play that's the bigger problem, and I'd agree. So then we need to get Nassib out of the pocket, or get Bailey on the edges.

I mean it's about being average. Just average. That should be our second half slogan! Say it with me Orange Nation...

"WE CAN BE AVERAGE! WE CAN BE AVERAGE! WE CAN BE AVERAGE!"

 

[qdawgg]

I've watched the last 3 games 2 or more times, depending on the game. People who think the O-Line is the biggest problem aren't watching the games again. Rutgers blitzed us like crazy, the O-Line did a terrible job at times picking everyone up and made Nassib rush. BUT you have a first year center. Rutgers also manhandled Pitt this weekend with the same type of pressure and if you compare the 2 games, our O-Line actually did a decent job. The line has done a much better job run blocking, whether opening holes or getting push off the line. One problem the O-Line has is the lack of a medium to deep passing game to take some pressure off the line.

 

[kingottoiii]

I've seen enough from Nassib, Bailey, Harris, Chew, Lemon and Provo to know that there is *something* there. Not something great, but maybe something average. And we are so far below average at this point it's mind-boggling.

That is the main issue.

I don't get the use of some of our players either. Most teams do not use a FB. Yet we insist on having one in so often that we have two FBs getting significant PT. I like Harris very much. But there is no way we should be using him so often that he needs a rest and then we have Kose in.

I like Stevens. But do we need to really play 2 TEs so often? Is he really one of our 5 best skill position players? And there is no way in passing situations we should have him in the slot over a WR. That is just insane.

Bailey is a decent RB who should be used to the outside or misdirection. Yet we insist on pounding him up the middle time and again. I would bet that the runs up the gut he averages 1.0 ypc. And the rest of his runs he averages over 5.0 ypc. So if the OL ain't opening holes on the run up the middle and Bailey ain't moving the pile, why run those plays at all?

Then we have the use of Rene this game. I like what Rene brings. But why did he have a couple of up the middle carries in short yardage situations? He is a small speedy guy. Those were dumb, wasted plays IMO.

The play calling and personnel decisions are mind boggling at times.

 

[AZOrange]

I dont think Otto's point regarding the importance of the quality of the product is that off base. I mean lets be honest, we are not a school with a dyed in the wool fanbase like Michigan or Notre Dame that can churn 100k in the seats regardless of what is taking place on the field. Those teams have been awful but year after year they get that. With a school like Syracuse I think quality becomes a much more important factor. I also dont think you can overlook cost of games, a depressed economy, and the availability of TV in the market.

On a personal note, I have generally followed ND football since I was young. I have however given my ties to the area been a tremendous fan of Syracuse football (please note that I bleed Orange literally when it comes to SU hoops). I will say that since 2002 or so I have moved away from the product that is SU football (in part because of relocation) but in reality if I am going to spend time watching a game it was more fun to watch USC move the ball all around than Cuse (and I have not affiliation to USC). Since Marrone took over I have reverted back to Syracuse games to watch them every week. And if i am being honest, the last few weeks the University should be concerned about what is being put out there in terms of product. I mean even allowing Tulane to be scheduled in that facility with that crowd (or lack thereof) really underscores the fact that I dont think most of the people involved with SU football (or that are close to it) understand the perception. The perception of that game...from execution to the crowd was horrible.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If the fan is so sophisticated, they would realize that they are lucky enough to be one of the 65 or so places in the country that play BCS football.

I can easily argue that what we play doesn't resemble BCS football if you really want to go down that road.

For you to say that this is any old product is simplistic. Like it or lump it, we've undergone a huge roster overhaul in the past couple of seasons, and that we're churning out wins and headed towards another bowl eligible year is a huge positive.

I'm not stating that it isn't a huge positive. I'm stating that it isn't a big enough positive to put butts in seats. Again, people can argue all they want about what should suffice, but all of that pales in comparison to the reality that the Dome is not full - which is something the staff has stated is an enormous problem for the program. So I stand by my statement that what we have is any old product, because that's the amount of appeal it holds.

We have two with an emerging third upperclassmen at WR, an undersized RB, took on a few losses (Sales, PTG, I guess Timbers), a pretty average yet durable QB. And apparently a lot of kids not field-ready. Not sure what the sophisticated class is expecting with that.

These are all excuses. Syracuse is not so special that it's the only program with deficiencies. Other programs find a way to make football fun.

 

[AZOrange]

I've watched the last 3 games 2 or more times, depending on the game. People who think the O-Line is the biggest problem aren't watching the games again. Rutgers blitzed us like crazy, the O-Line did a terrible job at times picking everyone up and made Nassib rush. BUT you have a first year center. Rutgers also manhandled Pitt this weekend with the same type of pressure and if you compare the 2 games, our O-Line actually did a decent job. The line has done a much better job run blocking, whether opening holes or getting push off the line. One problem the O-Line has is the lack of a medium to deep passing game to take some pressure off the line.

Please dont interpret this as flippant Q, but what do we need to watch again. The excuse that someone is a first year center doesnt cut it. And a good/average run blocking line can be a bad/below average pass blocking line. You have a chicken and the egg argument going here too with the medium/long range passing game. It is really hard to complete those types of passes if (a) your WRS cannot get open and (b) your line is getting blown up. Of course teams are blitzing us, that is where Cuse if vulnerable. More disturbing that the outside successful rushes are the absolute blow ups in the middle. The DTs are killing the C.

 

[kingtidge]

I dont think Otto's point regarding the importance of the quality of the product is that off base. I mean lets be honest, we are not a school with a dyed in the wool fanbase like Michigan or Notre Dame that can churn 100k in the seats regardless of what is taking place on the field. Those teams have been awful but year after year they get that. With a school like Syracuse I think quality becomes a much more important factor. I also dont think you can overlook cost of games, a depressed economy, and the availability of TV in the market...

While think quality of the product is part of it... as I highlighted in your post... we lack in QUANTITY what many would consider a LOCAL quality, die hard fan...

Many of the die hards of the past have retired and moved to Florida... and their kids that may have been raised on Cuse Fball/Basketball??... many scattered across the country living in cities where they can actually find work...

Economy and local-fanbase-in-attrition issues are as big a part of the problem as the product on the field. Perhaps even moreso..

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I haven't sat next to too many sophisticated consumers at the dome in my years of attending games, so to imply that some of the fair weather fans are actually sophisticated football consumers is a joke. But at least it makes your point I guess.

If scoring points at will was so easy everyone would be doing it.

Two things - yes, you aren't seeing sophisticated consumers at the Dome because they're staying away. They are sophisticated consumers that are not accepting the product. You actually reinforced my point. Thank you.

Second, scoring points is easy. Everyone is doing it. Some people talk like this is impossible - it's not!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

While think quality of the product is part of it... as I highlighted in your post... we lack in QUANTITY what many would consider a LOCAL quality, die hard fan...

Many of the die hards of the past have retired and moved to Florida... and their kids that may have been raised on Cuse Fball/Basketball??... many scattered across the country living in cities where they can actually find work...

Economy and local-fanbase-in-attrition issues are as big a part of the problem as the product on the field. Perhaps even moreso..

I completely agree with you king. That's a major factor - the diehard base is small.

Which to me makes it all the more important that the product be compelling and top notch. You need to build more diehards, and you do that by making it fun and memorable. I don't think that we're either right now.

 

[Scooch]

I've watched the last 3 games 2 or more times, depending on the game. People who think the O-Line is the biggest problem aren't watching the games again. Rutgers blitzed us like crazy, the O-Line did a terrible job at times picking everyone up and made Nassib rush. BUT you have a first year center. Rutgers also manhandled Pitt this weekend with the same type of pressure and if you compare the 2 games, our O-Line actually did a decent job. The line has done a much better job run blocking, whether opening holes or getting push off the line. One problem the O-Line has is the lack of a medium to deep passing game to take some pressure off the line.

I'm far from an X's and O's expert when it comes to the OL, but if it's really true that our OL isn't our biggest problem then that's a massive indictment of the staff and our offensive production. Curious to hear others weigh in though, because as a fan who watches the ball, the OL seems lousy.

 

[GoSU96]

This is not and will not become syracuse.com and some people are close to being jettisoned. But not because they state something negative. It's not always what is said but how it is said. But this place will also never be allowed to be a place where criticism is not allowed or accepted. Not everything is always cookies and ice cream and people have a right to be concerned if it is their opinion. Have no doubt though, if anyone is looking for censorship of anything stated negatively about the team or staff...it's not happening as long as it is said with some sense of maturity. And as always, "agenda's" will not be allowed when that is all they post.

Did I ask for censorship?

 

[GoSU96]

Posts suggesting that Marrone be fired and posts suggesting that as long as we win, no criticism is valid are equally ridiculous.

Not what I said.