This season was incredibly disappointing

[HoustonCuse]

Our power program in 1974-75.

Our finish reminds me of George Mason and Florida Gulf Coast.

Dasher is suffering from selective amnesia in which he remembers the NCAAT and forgets losses to Penn State.

OPPONENT
Buffalo W
Cornell W
Army W
St. John's W
Providence L
Penn State W
Georgetown L
Rochester W
Pittsburgh W
Bowling Green W
Northeastern W
American W
Temple W
Boston College L
Penn State L
LaSalle W
St Bonaventure W
Rutgers L
West Virginia L
Colgate W
Canisius L
George Washington W
Niagara W
Manhattan W
Fordham W
Niagara W
St Bonaventure W
LaSalle W
North Carolina W
Kansas State W
Kentucky L

Oh no, another Syracuse Final Four that doesn't count. Crap. How many do we have left now?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I hope you are right. But I have serious doubts because the pillars of our past success were The Big East, ESPN and Boeheim and coaching continuity.

All filled arenas have great atmospheres. The Dome is no better than Maryland's arena when they are both packed. And the CNY crowd shows up for winners only (as the football crowd sizes demonstrate.)

Many teams have great practice facilities.

The history is connected to the Boeheim regime, I think. Once that's gone there's a break or at least a partial break with the past. If Hop tries and fails and we bring in the "new hot coach", than the history is even more remote.

I think the future is in serious doubt.

If you listen to the critics on here, we have been trending down for five years and next year, the claim is, it'll be even worse.

The flip side is...recruits may come because Boeheim is leaving. Hopkins is a young guy that connects with kids. We have the history, the brand, TV, facilities and the ACC behind us. Change may be great for the program.

 

[HoustonCuse]

The flip side is...recruits may come because Boeheim is leaving. Hopkins is a young guy that connects with kids. We have the history, the brand, TV, facilities and the ACC behind us. Change may be great for the program.

I am certainly expecting an uptick in the energy level of the program - specifically in the area of recruiting.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

So, you don't believe folks who took time off from work and spent their hard earned dollars to travel to NYC to support the team have a right to vent?

I'm just glad I didn't waste a vacation day to see us lose yet another first game of an ACC tournament. Maybe someday Jim will get his first.

It comes down to this with Jim- his offense is as poor as I have ever seen it. It's not because he has necessarily gotten worse as a coach it's just that basketball nowadays, is very detail oriented especially when it comes to the pick and roll. His offense STINKS because teams are putting a lot more attention into their ball screen coverages defensively because a lot of teams run a pick and roll style offense. Combine the increased awareness/teaching of the PnR defensively, and JBs ZERO tactics he employs in his pick and roll offense, it results in it being a 1 on 1 drive or jack just about every time down. I saw someone say well in basketball you don't have a lot of plays so it's not the offense that's the problem. Well yes, that can be true to an extent (some coaches have a lot and prefer a set offense style. Tom Izzo comes to mind. Usually has 50-60 total sets) while we may not run many sets which I am actually not against, its JBs execution that does not change at all with his PnR offense depending on how he is being guarded. There are specific attacks you should employ depending on how teams are hedging, tagging, and going over/under bball screens. We have none. Literally none. I watch the euroleague all the time (basically the Chmpions League for basketball) and all teams do is PnR but they consistently get outstanding looks because the players realize how they are being guarded and execute the attack from how they are coached. Many times you will hear that basketball is a simple but very complex game. It's simple in that nowadays many teams are running ball screens, but it's very complex because actually executing the PnR requires a lot of intelligence from the coaches and execution from the players. We create zero offensive advantages for our players. It will hurt the Boeheim crazies but it's the truth. Basketball is a PnR game and our next hire needs to be an individual that understands that and can teach the concepts offensively and defensively if we want sustained success as a top 5 ACC team. That's the bottom line truth. I do not think Mike Hopkins is that and that's the reason I want a national search.

I listened to Mark Few the other day talk about his loss to BYU. First thing he said was that they had too many breakdowns in their ball screen coverages and that's why they lost. How you execute ball screens offensively and defensively often determine if you win or lose. Jay Wright has employed the Spread PnR recently and they have had tremendous success with it.

Another thing is that in our offense It's honestly baffling how poor our spacing is as times. We will run a middle ball screen and have Tyler Roberson posting up down low where the roller will be rolling to. It has happened all year. Spread them out and have your ball screener be TT or TRob and force teams to tag the roller and create a closeout for one of our shooters in the PnR

 

[Townie72]

The flip side is...recruits may come because Boeheim is leaving. Hopkins is a young guy that connects with kids. We have the history, the brand, TV, facilities and the ACC behind us. Change may be great for the program.

Change may or may not be good for the program.

And change may not cause recruits to come. It's a huge crap shoot in which the future is anything but certain.

Plenty of other schools have history, brand, TV and even membership in the ACC.

 

[Ghost]

Another thing is that in our offense It's honestly baffling how poor our spacing is as times. We will run a middle ball screen and have Tyler Roberson posting up down low where the roller will be rolling to. It has happened all year. Spread them out and have your ball screener be TT or TRob and force teams to tag the roller and create a closeout for one of our shooters in the PnR

This always befuddles me...it seems designed to fail, but I figure there is some larger plan at work!

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Change may or may not be good for the program.

And change may not cause recruits to come. It's a huge crap shoot in which the future is anything but certain.

Plenty of other schools have history, brand, TV and even membership in the ACC.

Yeah...I don't really think it's a crapshoot. Hop can recruit, which is important. We'll see how good of a coach he is. The future is anything but certain for anyone, but I doubt it's all doom and gloom because Boeheim is retiring. Things may get better. I see guys like Steve Kerr, Sean Miller, and Steve Alford being very successfull. Hopkins may be too.

 

[SoBeCuse]

It comes down to this with Jim- his offense is as poor as I have ever seen it. It's not because he has necessarily gotten worse as a coach it's just that basketball nowadays, is very detail oriented especially when it comes to the pick and roll. His offense STINKS because teams are putting a lot more attention into their ball screen coverages defensively because a lot of teams run a pick and roll style offense. Combine the increased awareness/teaching of the PnR defensively, and JBs ZERO tactics he employs in his pick and roll offense, it results in it being a 1 on 1 drive or jack just about every time down. I saw someone say well in basketball you don't have a lot of plays so it's not the offense that's the problem. Well yes, that can be true to an extent (some coaches have a lot and prefer a set offense style. Tom Izzo comes to mind. Usually has 50-60 total sets) while we may not run many sets which I am actually not against, its JBs execution that does not change at all with his PnR offense depending on how he is being guarded. There are specific attacks you should employ depending on how teams are hedging, tagging, and going over/under bball screens. We have none. Literally none. I watch the euroleague all the time (basically the Chmpions League for basketball) and all teams do is PnR but they consistently get outstanding looks because the players realize how they are being guarded and execute the attack from how they are coached. Many times you will hear that basketball is a simple but very complex game. It's simple in that nowadays many teams are running ball screens, but it's very complex because actually executing the PnR requires a lot of intelligence from the coaches and execution from the players. We create zero offensive advantages for our players. It will hurt the Boeheim crazies but it's the truth. Basketball is a PnR game and our next hire needs to be an individual that understands that and can teach the concepts offensively and defensively if we want sustained success as a top 5 ACC team. That's the bottom line truth. I do not think Mike Hopkins is that and that's the reason I want a national search.

I listened to Mark Few the other day talk about his loss to BYU. First thing he said was that they had too many breakdowns in their ball screen coverages and that's why they lost. How you execute ball screens offensively and defensively often determine if you win or lose. Jay Wright has employed the Spread PnR recently and they have had tremendous success with it.

Another thing is that in our offense It's honestly baffling how poor our spacing is as times. We will run a middle ball screen and have Tyler Roberson posting up down low where the roller will be rolling to. It has happened all year. Spread them out and have your ball screener be TT or TRob and force teams to tag the roller and create a closeout for one of our shooters in the PnR

Great post. I really hope coaches aren't using this aspect against us in recruiting. Too many times the defense is dictating too much defending the PnR against us I think. College bball is moving more and more to PnR and I'm often confused why it seems like our offense becomes so discombobulated more than other teams. It doesn't seem to matter who is running the point. These defenses who are at least pretty good stymied Ennis as well as that team the whole 2H of that season. Me thinks there just isn't enough attention to detail in terms of executing those types of plays. The players often look lost, confused, and we end up heaving up a jacked up, contested shot. Mediocre teams are able to get some better offense going against these defenses with 'subpar' players. I don't think the coaches have been putting the players in the best positions with running that kind of offense.

 

[CuseTG2003]

Great post. I really hope coaches aren't using this aspect against us in recruiting. Too many times the defense is dictating too much defending the PnR against us I think. College bball is moving more and more to PnR and I'm often confused why it seems like our offense becomes so discombobulated more than other teams. It doesn't seem to matter who is running the point. These defenses who are at least pretty good stymied Ennis as well as that team the whole 2H of that season. Me thinks there just isn't enough attention to detail in terms of executing those types of plays. The players often look lost, confused, and we end up heaving up a jacked up, contested shot. Mediocre teams are able to get some better offense going against these defenses with 'subpar' players. I don't think the coaches have been putting the players in the best positions with running that kind of offense.

We also didn't use the personnel best suited for the PnR this year. What's the point of setting a pick for Gillon or Howard or having Robey set the pick? Opposing teams want those players to do what they're supposed to do in those situations because they're bad at them. A Battle-Lydon PnR should've been lethal this year yet it never seemed to happen.

 

[orangetrojan]

It comes down to this with Jim- his offense is as poor as I have ever seen it. It's not because he has necessarily gotten worse as a coach it's just that basketball nowadays, is very detail oriented especially when it comes to the pick and roll. His offense STINKS because teams are putting a lot more attention into their ball screen coverages defensively because a lot of teams run a pick and roll style offense. Combine the increased awareness/teaching of the PnR defensively, and JBs ZERO tactics he employs in his pick and roll offense, it results in it being a 1 on 1 drive or jack just about every time down. I saw someone say well in basketball you don't have a lot of plays so it's not the offense that's the problem. Well yes, that can be true to an extent (some coaches have a lot and prefer a set offense style. Tom Izzo comes to mind. Usually has 50-60 total sets) while we may not run many sets which I am actually not against, its JBs execution that does not change at all with his PnR offense depending on how he is being guarded. There are specific attacks you should employ depending on how teams are hedging, tagging, and going over/under bball screens. We have none. Literally none. I watch the euroleague all the time (basically the Chmpions League for basketball) and all teams do is PnR but they consistently get outstanding looks because the players realize how they are being guarded and execute the attack from how they are coached. Many times you will hear that basketball is a simple but very complex game. It's simple in that nowadays many teams are running ball screens, but it's very complex because actually executing the PnR requires a lot of intelligence from the coaches and execution from the players. We create zero offensive advantages for our players. It will hurt the Boeheim crazies but it's the truth. Basketball is a PnR game and our next hire needs to be an individual that understands that and can teach the concepts offensively and defensively if we want sustained success as a top 5 ACC team. That's the bottom line truth. I do not think Mike Hopkins is that and that's the reason I want a national search.

I listened to Mark Few the other day talk about his loss to BYU. First thing he said was that they had too many breakdowns in their ball screen coverages and that's why they lost. How you execute ball screens offensively and defensively often determine if you win or lose. Jay Wright has employed the Spread PnR recently and they have had tremendous success with it.

Another thing is that in our offense It's honestly baffling how poor our spacing is as times. We will run a middle ball screen and have Tyler Roberson posting up down low where the roller will be rolling to. It has happened all year. Spread them out and have your ball screener be TT or TRob and force teams to tag the roller and create a closeout for one of our shooters in the PnR

Really good post. I love JB but I've always felt that our offense was elementary but worked when we had truly gifted offensive talent. It sucks but the last few years show the flaws of a program like Syracuse in the current state of college bball - we want the top classes and talent, except SU is not built like a duke, Kentucky or UNC where we get enough McD's AAs every year to fill the gaps. So SU ends up in a situation where we can have great years and then really bad ones if the recruiting falls short. We're really a program that should focus on developing talent over 3-4 years with the occasional top recruit (thinking more of Jay Wright's strategy) rather than try to compete toe to toe with bball royalty. Of course that would require the staff to be good at player development, which unfortunately I'm not really sure is their strong suit.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Really good post. I love JB but I've always felt that our offense was elementary but worked when we had truly gifted offensive talent. It sucks but the last few years show the flaws of a program like Syracuse in the current state of college bball - we want the top classes and talent, except SU is not built like a duke, Kentucky or UNC where we get enough McD's AAs every year to fill the gaps. So SU ends up in a situation where we can have great years and then really bad ones if the recruiting falls short. We're really a program that should focus on developing talent over 3-4 years with the occasional top recruit (thinking more of Jay Wright's strategy) rather than try to compete toe to toe with bball royalty. Of course that would require the staff to be good at player development, which unfortunately I'm not really sure is their strong suit.

Yep- I agree. The recruiting has been down recently which has resulted in more regular seasons losses. This team has to have players that can break their man down one on one. Mali and Silent G excelled in that. Cooney shooting percentage was always low because he was rarely ever open. AW3 is shooting a low 43% from the field. These guys are way better shooters than their percentages but are forced to consistently take tough shots because of all what I stated above. I really hope the next coach has a solid understanding of all screen concepts on both ends of the floor. If it's Hopkins, I really hope he is studying that aspect of the game big time

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Yep- I agree. The recruiting has been down recently which has resulted in more regular seasons losses. This team has to have players that can break their man down one on one. Mali and Silent G excelled in that. Cooney shooting percentage was always low because he was rarely ever open. AW3 is shooting a low 43% from the field. These guys are way better shooters than their percentages but are forced to consistently take tough shots because of all what I stated above. I really hope the next coach has a solid understanding of all screen concepts on both ends of the floor. If it's Hopkins, I really hope he is studying that aspect of the game big time

I think recruiting has been fine. Losing kids like Flynn, Waiters, Ennis, Grant, McCullough, and Mali after 1 or 2 years is tough. Have to continuously replace talent.

 

[tbonezone]

I think recruiting has been fine. Losing kids like Flynn, Waiters, Ennis, Grant, McCullough, and Mali after 1 or 2 years is tough. Have to continuously replace talent.

now try selling that same sad song to every other major NCAA program. it's called college hoops reality 2000 +.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

now try selling that same sad song to every other major NCAA program. it's called college hoops reality 2000 +.

99% of schools aren't losing 1st and 2nd year players to the. NBA draft on a regular basis. There's a handful of schools that are, and we are one of them, because we have recruited so well.

 

[br801]

Yep- I agree. The recruiting has been down recently which has resulted in more regular seasons losses. This team has to have players that can break their man down one on one. Mali and Silent G excelled in that. Cooney shooting percentage was always low because he was rarely ever open. AW3 is shooting a low 43% from the field. These guys are way better shooters than their percentages but are forced to consistently take tough shots because of all what I stated above. I really hope the next coach has a solid understanding of all screen concepts on both ends of the floor. If it's Hopkins, I really hope he is studying that aspect of the game big time

You do realize that White's "low" 43% from the field is a function of the fact that he attempts 8.2 3-point shots per game and only 5.2 2-point shots, don't you? He is actually an extremely efficient scorer who shoots about 40% from deep and 50% from inside arc, as well as 83% from the line. You're barking up the wrong tree if you believe the coaching staff has not maximized his talents.

 

[NineOneSeven]

You do realize that White's "low" 43% from the field is a function of the fact that he attempts 8.2 3-point shots per game and only 5.2 2-point shots, don't you? He is actually an extremely efficient scorer who shoots about 40% from deep and 50% from inside arc, as well as 83% from the line. You're barking up the wrong tree if you believe the coaching staff has not maximized his talents.

Which is amazing considering some of the shots he has made this year. Insanely difficult.

 

[OrangeDW]

I hope you are right. But I have serious doubts because the pillars of our past success were The Big East, ESPN and Boeheim and coaching continuity.

All filled arenas have great atmospheres. The Dome is no better than Maryland's arena when they are both packed. And the CNY crowd shows up for winners only (as the football crowd sizes demonstrate.)

Many teams have great practice facilities.

The history is connected to the Boeheim regime, I think. Once that's gone there's a break or at least a partial break with the past. If Hop tries and fails and we bring in the "new hot coach", than the history is even more remote.

I think the future is in serious doubt.

If you listen to the critics on here, we have been trending down for five years and next year, the claim is, it'll be even worse.

"Better" is subjective, but the Dome is certainly unique. There is no place out there comparable to the Dome when it has 30,000 and is rocking. The smaller arenas might get just as loud, but it's still...different.

I've been to some other arenas. Been to UNC quite a few times including when there were 21,000 going wild against Duke. Extremely loud, great atmosphere...it just wasn't like the Dome when there's 30,000 and it gets going.

And I think this season disproves the "CNY only shows up for winners" stuff. We were an awful team for a couple months of this season and people were still showing up. The crowds were great this year. This isn't college football. SU basketball is enormous in CNY, and yes 40 years of success built that. But it's ingrained at this point.

SU football never had anywhere close to a run like that to build up a fanbase like that, and frankly Syracuse is just more of a basketball city than a football one.

 

[br801]

Which is amazing considering some of the shots he has made this year. Insanely difficult.

Yes, he takes many high degree of difficulty shots, some of which he forces, and some he gets stuck with at the end of the shot clock. He will make himself a lot of money in Europe with that jumpshot.

 

[OrangeDW]

now try selling that same sad song to every other major NCAA program. it's called college hoops reality 2000 +.

Really...every "major" program? Then by that definition, there aren't that many "major programs" out there?

Losing someone early every year + reduced scholarships due to probation + a couple recruiting misses= the current situation and strategy.

I'm sure we could take a bunch of less talented kids to fill the roster out and have roster continuity and be average at best until they leave and get replaced by better guys. Would you prefer that route?

 

[SoBeCuse]

99% of schools aren't losing 1st and 2nd year players to the. NBA draft on a regular basis. There's a handful of schools that are, and we are one of them, because we have recruited so well.

So we aren't a big boy then? You're just gonna take on all comers who even try to criticize anything, eh? What do you think about Joseph, Howard, Patterson, Chino, BJ, Roberson, etc.? Good recruits? Recruiting is fine? You think we are better than Arizona? Btw, it is laughable that you think Arizona or UCLA will be middle of the pack like a SU/Wake in the ACC. Yes, the PAC-12 is much weaker overall but Arizona/UCLA/Oregon are all national championship contenders and would be terrific in any conference. Bilas said so the other day.

 

[OrangeDW]

So we aren't a big boy then? You're just gonna take on all comers who even try to criticize anything, eh? What do you think about Joseph, Howard, Patterson, Chino, BJ, Roberson, etc.? Good recruits? Recruiting is fine? You think we are better than Arizona. Btw, it is laughable that you think Arizona or UCLA will be middle of the pack like a SU/Wake in the ACC? Yes, the PAC-12 is much weaker overall but Arizona/UCLA/Oregon are all national championship contenders and would be terrific in any conference. Bilas said so the other day.

BJ was a good recruit. He's a very good college bball player now, and would be if he was at SU too. He was on the D. Nichols path. Unfortunate circumstances that he had to leave.

Roberson was a fine recruit too. Almost averaged a double double on a final four team. He's been a valuable player for us. Not everyone is a star.

Joseph especially, and Howard were fine recruits. The problem was/is in their development. But again, Joseph was only here 2 years. In the past, we had some guards come on as upperclassmen. Z Sims, and Allen Griffin come to mind. Obviously Griffin showed more early and was stuck behind Hart, but still he really came on strong as a senior moreso than most thought he would. Would Joseph have done the same? Interested to see how he does at Creighton.

Chino was a project that didn't pan. Did that have something to do with trying to get Thomas Bryant here? Didn't work out obviously. Though you've gotta think with our short benches, it can be tough to bring in someone more touted at a position where we already have guys, to sit the bench for a couple years. Sometimes it's bring in a project, or leave the scholarship empty. I'm curious to their thinking on Chino.

 

[SoBeCuse]

BJ was a good recruit. He's a very good college bball player now, and would be if he was at SU too. He was on the D. Nichols path. Unfortunate circumstances that he had to leave.

Roberson was a fine recruit too. Almost averaged a double double on a final four team. He's been a valuable player for us. Not everyone is a star.

Joseph especially, and Howard were fine recruits. The problem was/is in their development. But again, Joseph was only here 2 years. In the past, we had some guards come on as upperclassmen. Z Sims, and Allen Griffin come to mind. Obviously Griffin showed more early and was stuck behind Hart, but still he really came on strong as a senior moreso than most thought he would. Would Joseph have done the same? Interested to see how he does at Creighton.

Chino was a project that didn't pan. Did that have something to do with trying to get Thomas Bryant here? Didn't work out obviously. Though you've gotta think with our short benches, it can be tough to bring in someone more touted at a position where we already have guys, to sit the bench for a couple years. Sometimes it's bring in a project, or leave the scholarship empty. I'm curious to their thinking on Chino.

All those players may have been good recruits at the time but that's null and void now and not a given BJ would do much here. We just don't know. They are busts, didn't contribute much here, or are elsewhere. It is what is. All those bodies and not contributing or gone. Haven't you listened to Francis' pods? Come on man. Roberson has been a big disappointment. He's had a few good games sprinkled in here/there but he's been a liability on offense, certainly all of this season and his rebounding has taken a nose dive. Development is part of it. They haven't developed. It's so bad that most of those guys don't even look close to high major players. I'm curious too about Joseph. But, he IS a bust. He was counted upon, never did anything, and is gone. Another man down!

 

[OrangeDW]

All those players may have been good recruits at the time but that's null and void now and not a given BJ would do much here. We just don't know. They are busts, didn't contribute much here, or are elsewhere. It is what is. All those bodies and not contributing or gone. Haven't you listened to Francis' pods? Come on man. Roberson has been a big disappointment. He's had a few good games sprinkled in here/there but he's been a liability on offense, certainly all of this season. Development is part of it. They haven't developed. It's so bad that most of those guys don't even look close to high major players. I'm curious too about Joseph. But, he IS a bust. He was counted upon, never did anything, and is gone. Another man down!

Disagree on Johnson and Roberson(to an extent). Johnson is a good college bball player. No reason to think he wouldn't be here. White and Gillon were good college bball players elsewhere and came here...and were good college bball players. Good players are good players. It took Johnson a few years to do so, which didn't used to be such a big deal. But he's there. And he showed plenty of signs at Cuse of being on the way.

Roberson is a role player. That's his skill level. He can't shoot. He can finish at the rim adequately, is a good athlete and rebounder, and a pretty good defender. Yes it sucks that he didn't develop into more like so many offensively raw but athletic SU forwards have in the past. But still...he's a valuable player. Even this year, he's a valuable player. Not everybody is a star. If you can't shoot, you can't shoot.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

You do realize that White's "low" 43% from the field is a function of the fact that he attempts 8.2 3-point shots per game and only 5.2 2-point shots, don't you? He is actually an extremely efficient scorer who shoots about 40% from deep and 50% from inside arc, as well as 83% from the line. You're barking up the wrong tree if you believe the coaching staff has not maximized his talents.

Laughable comment from you tbh. He shot 41 % from three last year and 48% from the field. The staff has done zilch for AW3. He has made tough shot after tough shot this year. I would reverse what you just said, He has maximized this staff and their efforts.

 

[OrangeDW]

Laughable comment from you tbh. He shot 41 % from three last year and 48% from the field. The staff has done zilch for AW3. He has made tough shot after tough shot this year. I would reverse what you just said, He has maximized this staff and their efforts.

Kid comes to Cuse and plays the whole game and averaged 20 a game in the best conference in the country. Has 40 on senior day in front of 30,000. But yeah, they did "nothing" for him.

You post like the classic obnoxious 5'7 drunk meathead in the bar that never played a lick of hoops beyond 6th grade but identifies as superfan of the team and says stupid s... all night.