This season was incredibly disappointing

[dasher]

I know the history watch Requiem for the Big east.
Gtown has anti-establishment. Thompson would allow interviews but Mike Gorman said in the documentary that Gtown would watch them before they aired.
Thompson loosened up after the Sweater game in 1985. He was Darth Vader but he was a PC alumna and loyal to Dave Gavitt.

LOL a 90 minute doc doesn't tell near the whole story.

 

[dasher]

SU was a strong regional program when JB took over and St. Bonaventure was one of our bigger rivals. His recruitment of Bouie and Orr helped put SU on the national map for good and the rest is history. I'm not sure things would have turned out as well as they have with another coach (or series of coaches) at the helm.

They wouldn't have. those of us that were here from the start know that. Those that came once the hard work was done, don't.

 

[Alsacs]

LOL a 90 minute doc doesn't tell near the whole story.

Watch it. It explained the BE perfectly.

 

[dasher]

Our power program in 1974-75.

Our finish reminds me of George Mason and Florida Gulf Coast.

Dasher is suffering from selective amnesia in which he remembers the NCAAT and forgets losses to Penn State.

OPPONENT
Buffalo W
Cornell W
Army W
St. John's W
Providence L
Penn State W
Georgetown L
Rochester W
Pittsburgh W
Bowling Green W
Northeastern W
American W
Temple W
Boston College L
Penn State L
LaSalle W
St Bonaventure W
Rutgers L
West Virginia L
Colgate W
Canisius L
George Washington W
Niagara W
Manhattan W
Fordham W
Niagara W
St Bonaventure W
LaSalle W
North Carolina W
Kansas State W
Kentucky L

by the way, we had a more talented team in '74 than we did in '75

 

[dasher]

Watch it. It explained the BE perfectly.

LOL I have seen it. I lived it. I remember when the league (catholic schools) didn't want Penn state.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Our power program in 1974-75.

Our finish reminds me of George Mason and Florida Gulf Coast.

Dasher is suffering from selective amnesia in which he remembers the NCAAT and forgets losses to Penn State.

OPPONENT
Buffalo W
Cornell W
Army W
St. John's W
Providence L
Penn State W
Georgetown L
Rochester W
Pittsburgh W
Bowling Green W
Northeastern W
American W
Temple W
Boston College L
Penn State L
LaSalle W
St Bonaventure W
Rutgers L
West Virginia L
Colgate W
Canisius L
George Washington W
Niagara W
Manhattan W
Fordham W
Niagara W
St Bonaventure W
LaSalle W
North Carolina W
Kansas State W
Kentucky L

What's the point? This is who your beloved Georgetown played:

St. Bonaventure W
Maryland L
Eastern Kentucky W
Syracuse W
Dartmouth L
St Johns W
BU W
Fairfield L
Seton Hall W
American L
Holy Cross L
St Peter's L
Penn State W
Fairleigh Dickinson W
St Joes W
BC W
St Francis (PA) W
Manhattan W
GW L
Fordham W
GW W
WVU W
CMU L(NCAA Tourney)

 

[Townie72]

I didn't even know I was in a match. the idea that G-town has more advantages than us by virtue of location alone is short sighted in my opinion. Otherwise, the NYC schools would be dominant as well.

SU "advantages" are largely artificial and easily subject to change.

GU's problem is that it cannot fire a coach that is there because of who his father is. And because it is an academically elite school that does not want to return to the embarrassments of the past.

Maryland and Georgetown are always going to be an easier sell because of where they are. There are no NYC schools in the mix except for SJU and a tour of their campus doesn't exactly holler out "college environment".

 

[dasher]

Watch it. It explained the BE perfectly.

back then, I knew a lot of the players. Mike T was from nearby, and WAS married to a friends sister. I talked with him a lot. I also knew people with eastern Basketball magazine. Long before your time but it was a great basketball mag.

 

[Alsacs]

LOL I have seen it. I lived it. I remember when the league (catholic schools) didn't want Penn state.

Just because you lived it doesn't mean my points are off.
That documentary explained the Big East perfectly.
Listen if you saw it you wouldn't have said what you have. Thompson wasn't an ahole to Gavitt.
He did make his program the enemy for everyone but Mike Gorman says the program was tough to get access but they did get access.

 

[OttoMets]

LOL I have seen it. I lived it. I remember when the league (catholic schools) didn't want Penn state.

(This is the second Pee Wee quote that's been put on a tee in the last month. Crazy times we're living in...)

 

[dasher]

SU "advantages" are largely artificial and easily subject to change.

GU's problem is that it cannot fire a coach that is there because of who his father is. And because it is an academically elite school that does not want to return to the embarrassments of the past.

Maryland and Georgetown are always going to be an easier sell because of where they are. There are no NYC schools in the mix except for SJU and a tour of their campus doesn't exactly holler out "college environment".

Funny, I thought there was a coach at g-twon who also failed between the Thompson's.

 

[dasher]

Just because you lived it doesn't mean my points are off.
That documentary explained the Big East perfectly.
Listen if you saw it you wouldn't have said what you have. Thompson wasn't an ahole to Gavitt.
He did make his program the enemy for everyone but Mike Gorman says the program was tough to get access but they did get access.

LOL he was incredibly disrespectful to Gavitt. I take it as disrespectful when year after year his teams showed up late to the banquet. Small thing but it sends everyone a message. I take it that that wasn't in the doc. And everyone else in the league's office. And for that matter, in the league. He had his players toss Leslie Visser of the Globe out of their locker room. I liked the doc but it had only so much time and it didn't show all of G-towns bad deeds. Quite frankly, what I liked about the doc the most, was how little UConn was mentioned.

 

[Cusefan0307]

SU "advantages" are largely artificial and easily subject to change.

GU's problem is that it cannot fire a coach that is there because of who his father is. And because it is an academically elite school that does not want to return to the embarrassments of the past.

Maryland and Georgetown are always going to be an easier sell because of where they are. There are no NYC schools in the mix except for SJU and a tour of their campus doesn't exactly holler out "college environment".

Georgetown is recruiting quite well. The Academics aren't hurting them. The coach, well you're right.

You're really overvaluing Georgetown's prospects. They have a better chance of turning into St. Johns than they do passing Syracuse. 18 year olds don't remember Ewing/Mourning/Mutombo/Iversen. If Syracuse didn't exist in the college basketball landscape, I wouldn't even consider them if I was a recruit. I'd want to go to an ACC school first and Big 10 second. If I was picking a BE school Nova would be at the top of my list.

 

[Townie72]

Funny, I thought there was a coach at g-twon who also failed between the Thompson's.

Five years of Esherick and a lot of NIT appearances. But he was just there as a placeholder until JTIII could take the reins.

Like I said, those who think JT's leaving is a good thing are most likely going to be crying crocodile tears in a few years.

The magic formula of Big East and ESPN and Boeheim will be gone. The idea that SU basketball has so much stature and so much going for it that things must get better (and can't possible get any worse) is IMO pure wishful thinking.

 

[Townie72]

Georgetown is recruiting quite well. The Academics aren't hurting them. The coach, well you're right.

You're really overvaluing Georgetown's prospects. They have a better chance of turning into St. Johns than they do passing Syracuse. 18 year olds don't remember Ewing/Mourning/Mutombo/Iversen. If Syracuse didn't exist in the college basketball landscape, I wouldn't even consider them if I was a recruit. I'd want to go to an ACC school first and Big 10 second. If I was picking a BE school Nova would be at the top of my list.

You guys are taking this down a different path than I intended.

The idea is that there are plenty of schools with advantages over Syracuse in facilities, in location and in the size of their potential fan base.

When I get on these other campuses, I'm amazed that SU has been able to do what it has.

 

[Townie72]

Georgetown is recruiting quite well. The Academics aren't hurting them. The coach, well you're right.

You're really overvaluing Georgetown's prospects. They have a better chance of turning into St. Johns than they do passing Syracuse. 18 year olds don't remember Ewing/Mourning/Mutombo/Iversen. If Syracuse didn't exist in the college basketball landscape, I wouldn't even consider them if I was a recruit. I'd want to go to an ACC school first and Big 10 second. If I was picking a BE school Nova would be at the top of my list.

"If Syracuse didn't exist in the college basketball landscape, I wouldn't even consider them if I was a recruit. I'd want to go to an ACC school first and Big 10 second. If I was picking a BE school Nova would be at the top of my list."

BINGO.

We agree.

 

[dasher]

Five years of Esherick and a lot of NIT appearances. But he was just there as a placeholder until JTIII could take the reins.

Like I said, those who think JT's leaving is a good thing are most likely going to be crying crocodile tears in a few years.

The magic formula of Big East and ESPN and Boeheim will be gone. The idea that SU basketball has so much stature and so much going for it that things must get better (and can't possible get any worse) is IMO pure wishful thinking.

????? Why is this linked to me? I didn't say JB leaving is a good thing. I have said that the next 41 years probably won't be near as good as the last 41 years. I also agree that JT3 leaving won't be a good thing because i think he is a horrible coach. However, Esherick certainly didn't think he was a place holder. And they didn't win. Really, they didn't win at the end of the first Thompson. other than the Ewing and Mourning years, what was G-town? that is the point that i will stick with. In the Big East, they should be at or neat the top. In the ACC, they wouldn't be anywhere near it.

 

[dasher]

You guys are taking this down a different path than I intended.

The idea is that there are plenty of schools with advantages over Syracuse in facilities, in location and in the size of their potential fan base.

When I get on these other campuses, I'm amazed that SU has been able to do what it has.

size of their potential fan base? We get 30k at games. Yes, we have a bg that holds that. But we still get it. Very few other schools would.

 

[RF2044]

To me the last time I thought our offense was actually fun to watch was 09-10 and even then that seemed like an anomaly, since it was more because of a few play makers than due to the actual philosophy. Since then we have had some very successful teams, but I haven't tuned in to a game because I was excited to see our offense in many years. A lot of years I think we, as fans, overlook our lack of offense because we win games with tough defense. Success and winning makes many of us (myself included, from time to time) forget about the "issues" of the team. Most years for as long as I can remember 20+ years offense has been an issue, other than the years when we have elite level play makers (Carmelo, Devendorf, Flynn, McNamara, Richardson, Hart, etc...) our offense is non-existent. Honestly, during some games this year I was reminded of watching a junior varsity girl's game, with all the dribbling on the perimeter and no progress toward the basket.

So I would argue that our offense has been bad for more than last 5 years...

You know what the funny thing is? That offense had problems, too -- its just that most people have lost sight of that in the rear view mirror. That 09-10 team might have had the best offensive BALANCE we've had since the glory days of the late 80s / early 90s. Inside scoring with Arinze / Rick. Knock down shooters in Andy / Wes. Complimentary shooters. Not a ton of depth, but tremendous position versatility which gave us the illusion of depth. Best interior passing we've had maybe ever.

That team WAS a lot of fun to watch offensive. But there were some negatives, as well. The team was turnover prone -- especially Andy Rautins, who it could be argued was our "primary" ball handler. Other than Scoop, we didn't have anybody who excelled at driving to the basket. Many posters actively railed against Rautins, because he lacked that capability unlike his predecessor, Devendorf. Wes couldn't dribble down his chin.

When that team was hitting shots, we could beat anybody. When Arinze and / or Rick were doing work inside, we were as good as anybody. But a lot of people seem to forget that the 09-10 team had glaring offensive limitations that frustrated the fanbase, too.

 

[Townie72]

????? Why is this linked to me? I didn't say JB leaving is a good thing. I have said that the next 41 years probably won't be near as good as the last 41 years. I also agree that JT3 leaving won't be a good thing because i think he is a horrible coach. However, Esherick certainly didn't think he was a place holder. And they didn't win. Really, they didn't win at the end of the first Thompson. other than the Ewing and Mourning years, what was G-town? that is the point that i will stick with. In the Big East, they should be at or neat the top. In the ACC, they wouldn't be anywhere near it.

Linking to you doesn't mean "you" said those things.

But you can see those sentiments on here over and over again from the usual suspects.

My only point on GU was that they have what I think is a significant advantage over SU in their locations as do Maryland, Georgia Tech, and Villanova and all schools south of the northern border of Virginia.

Which brings us to the discussion we ought to be having. Which is what is the basis of SU basketball success. And how have the things that underlie it changed?

Can we ever be as successful in the ACC as we were in the Big East?

 

[dasher]

Linking to you doesn't mean "you" said those things.

But you can see those sentiments on here over and over again from the usual suspects.

My only point on GU was that they have what I think is a significant advantage over SU in their locations as do Maryland, Georgia Tech, and Villanova and all schools south of the northern border of Virginia.

Which brings us to the discussion we ought to be having. Which is what is the basis of SU basketball success. And how have the things that underlie it changed?

Can we ever be as successful in the ACC as we were in the Big East?

Nova has recruited by the services rankings , very poorly over the past 5 years. As has Virginia. Nova very rarely has got a kid we really wanted. Obviously, we should have wanted more of their kids.

 

[Townie72]

Nova has recruited by the services rankings , very poorly over the past 5 years. As has Virginia. Nova very rarely has got a kid we really wanted. Obviously, we should have wanted more of their kids.

Well, there is no harsher critic of recruiting services than I am. My overall feeling is that they are an outrageous and obvious scam.

And it looks like Jay Wright feels the same way.

 

[Briancuse]

We have everything that a potential recruit would want, 30,000 seat venue, amazing atmosphere for a game, great practice facility, great history, great history of sending guys to the pros, other than some cold weather, what else do you want?

 

[Orange2389]

our program has been in a funk for 3 years

 

[Townie72]

We have everything that a potential recruit would want, 30,000 seat venue, amazing atmosphere for a game, great practice facility, great history, great history of sending guys to the pros, other than some cold weather, what else do you want?

I hope you are right. But I have serious doubts because the pillars of our past success were The Big East, ESPN and Boeheim and coaching continuity.

All filled arenas have great atmospheres. The Dome is no better than Maryland's arena when they are both packed. And the CNY crowd shows up for winners only (as the football crowd sizes demonstrate.)

Many teams have great practice facilities.

The history is connected to the Boeheim regime, I think. Once that's gone there's a break or at least a partial break with the past. If Hop tries and fails and we bring in the "new hot coach", than the history is even more remote.

I think the future is in serious doubt.

If you listen to the critics on here, we have been trending down for five years and next year, the claim is, it'll be even worse.