This years biggest disappointment is the OL

[DomeStranger]

I think you have to consider that the main reason we had such a large, experienced, and healthy line was partly due to the free covid year giving them all an extra year. But they were facing defensive lines and backers all with an extra year of experience as well. I think it nullifies some of the advantages we were counting on.

 

[kcsu]

You were at preseason practices? You should have let us know.

Ok

 

[IthacaBarrel]

that’s the only wake game you’ve watched I guess.

it 100% is But he’s been watching syracuse since 1958. syracuse down to reserves at d line going against the wake running game and this guy is amazed that we aren’t holding up at the point of attack. Seriously? 65 years of watching Football, amazing

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If those guys hadn’t shown they could be very good run blocking last year I’d agree. I think Ellis getting heavy, Bliech surgery, and Davis at tackle are bigger reasons than lack of talent.

The signs were there for this being a disappointing OL. Having Vet at C has always been an issue. No surprise it was an issue this year. He should have been RT. Ellis came in late last year where we struggled to run the ball. On top of that he doesn't look like he can move. Davis should have been LG, he is not a good RT. Bleich wasn't good last year but the excuse was he was playing injured. This year he wasn't any better.

We had no C so we were forced to play Vet there. By moving Vet, we had no RT so we were forced to move our best G there. ideally we would have been...

Berg - Davis - ??? - Bleich/Ellis - Vet

But we had no C.

 

[Dcuse]

The signs were there for this being a disappointing OL. Having Vet at C has always been an issue. No surprise it was an issue this year. He should have been RT. Ellis came in late last year where we struggled to run the ball. On top of that he doesn't look like he can move. Davis should have been LG, he is not a good RT. Bleich wasn't good last year but the excuse was he was playing injured. This year he wasn't any better.

We had no C so we were forced to play Vet there. By moving Vet, we had no RT so we were forced to move our best G there. ideally we would have been...

Berg - Davis - ??? - Bleich/Ellis - Vet

But we had no C.

I was going to mention what a nice job Ilaio did at C but was afraid Bees was going to throw his grade at me.

 

[hplare]

It's funny that in all the threads post WF there hasn't been much mention of the improvement of the OL. Many less penalties, room for Tucker and a consistent pocket for Shrader to get off accurate deep throws. In particular...Bradford. I watched him on replays and he was really good. I think Bleich has been Blech!

Two of those "Accurate deep throws" Were overthrows over open receivers. The completions were great catches while fighting for the ball.

 

[Chip]

I was going to mention what a nice job Ilaio did at C but was afraid Bees was going to throw his grade at me.

I'm kind of curious how that grading works. Are they extra penalized for a really bad play? On the pick 6, Ilaoa and Bradford messed up, the DT went right through them, and it led to disaster.

If they had 9 plays that were ok to good, and that 1 play that led to a pick 6, does it drop them below 90%?

Honestly don't know how they do it. But that was the theme, and it's to be expected when you throw several inexperienced offensive linemen into the fire like that.

 

[Millhouse]

it 100% is But he’s been watching syracuse since 1958. syracuse down to reserves at d line going against the wake running game and this guy is amazed that we aren’t holding up at the point of attack. Seriously? 65 years of watching Football, amazing

the giants have never faced wake's offense so it's very strange to see it work

 

[Millhouse]

I'm kind of curious how that grading works. Are they extra penalized for a really bad play? On the pick 6, Ilaoa and Bradford messed up, the DT went right through them, and it led to disaster.

If they had 9 plays that were ok to good, and that 1 play that led to a pick 6, does it drop them below 90%?

Honestly don't know how they do it. But that was the theme, and it's to be expected when you throw several inexperienced offensive linemen into the fire like that.

I just highly doubt any website is devoting that much time to any of this.

Tell me your business plan - we are going to devote hours to grading offensive linemen on teams that no one watches. How will this make money? sorry, you're ckckckckckc breaking up ckckckckckckck on me

 

[Goin' Deep]

If we're going to be honest, the Oline was mediocre. But with Shrader healthy, ready and able to run an RPO, Tucker healthy for L'ville only and Gadsden an emerging force, that mediocrity was somewhat hidden. With Tucker dinged up, Shrader injured, the offense lost some options and THIS Oline was not good enough to grind out yardage. What did we do, go 2 1/2 games with no TDs? Above average talent, just wasn't there...

 

[rrlbees]

I was going to mention what a nice job Ilaio did at C but was afraid Bees was going to throw his grade at me.

Actually he did good in pass blocking. Graded 2nd to Vett. But didn’t grade well in run blocking. But nobody really did.

 

[rrlbees]

I just highly doubt any website is devoting that much time to any of this.

Tell me your business plan - we are going to devote hours to grading offensive linemen on teams that no one watches. How will this make money? sorry, you're ckckckckckc breaking up ckckckckckckck on me

They have 600 analysts that look at every player and every play. They have a grading system to determine the overall grade. Those grades come out about 24 hours after a game. Then they have about 20-30 more senior analysts that review everything and will make tweaks if needed and update the grade where necessary. Those final grades come out Monday night or Tuesday. Many former NFL players are involved both as shareholders and as analysts. Every NFL team and 75% of BCS teams have a subscription. But teams can also get an even more detailed report than the average fan can. Cris Collinsworth is the majority shareholder I believe. I don’t know all the shareholders but I know Chip Kelly was a doubter and they invited him to their offices to see how they do the grading etc and besides becoming a user he also decided to become a shareholder. It isn’t a Big Game Boomer website.

Now you know the rest of the story.

 

[Millhouse]

They have 600 analysts that look at every player and every play. They have a grading system to determine the overall grade. Those grades come out about 24 hours after a game. Then they have about 20-30 more senior analysts that review everything and will make tweaks if needed and update the grade where necessary. Those final grades come out Monday night or Tuesday. Many former NFL players are involved both as shareholders and as analysts. Every NFL team and 75% of BCS teams have a subscription. But teams can also get an even more detail report than the average fan. Cris Collinsworth is the majority shareholder I believe. I don’t know all the shareholders but I know Chip Kelly was a doubter and they invited him to their offices to see how they do the grading etc and besides becoming a user he also decided to become a shareholder. It isn’t a Big Game Boomer website.

Now you know the rest of the story.

My story is that this is the worst money making venture since chip's onlyfans . More like lonelyfans

 

[rrlbees]

My story is that this is the worst money making venture since chip's onlyfans . More like lonelyfans

It’s been around for many years. It’s just getting bigger and more refined.

 

[Millhouse]

It’s been around for many years. It’s just getting bigger and more refined.

you're talking about pff, right?

 

[FrancoPizza]

If we're going to be honest, the Oline was mediocre. But with Shrader healthy, ready and able to run an RPO, Tucker healthy for L'ville only and Gadsden an emerging force, that mediocrity was somewhat hidden. With Tucker dinged up, Shrader injured, the offense lost some options and THIS Oline was not good enough to grind out yardage. What did we do, go 2 1/2 games with no TDs? Above average talent, just wasn't there...

Exactly. Expecting the OL to be a strength of a Syracuse team is very curious.

 

[rrlbees]

you're talking about pff, right?

Yes

 

[RF2044]

If we're going to be honest, the Oline was mediocre. But with Shrader healthy, ready and able to run an RPO, Tucker healthy for L'ville only and Gadsden an emerging force, that mediocrity was somewhat hidden. With Tucker dinged up, Shrader injured, the offense lost some options and THIS Oline was not good enough to grind out yardage. What did we do, go 2 1/2 games with no TDs? Above average talent, just wasn't there...

There is definitely some validity to this. Shrader's mobility and playmaking aptitude helped mask some shaky OL play. Same with Dungey a few years ago.

And the same that McNabb did back in the day [although the OL was "better" back then. But QBs being able to get out of the pocket and make plays on the move -- whether running or throwing -- helps mask OL issues. McNabb used to get pressured but would pop out of the pocket and make plays, so nobody paid attention to the OL allowing the pressure.

Same as it ever was.

 

[Millhouse]

There is definitely some validity to this. Shrader's mobility and playmaking aptitude helped mask some shaky OL play. Same with Dungey a few years ago.

And the same that McNabb did back in the day [although the OL was "better" back then. But QBs being able to get out of the pocket and make plays on the move -- whether running or throwing -- helps mask OL issues. McNabb used to get pressured but would pop out of the pocket and make plays, so nobody paid attention to the OL allowing the pressure.

Same as it ever was.

i bet there is a correlation between having the ability to make plays with your legs and hanging on to the ball forever

all those highlights where you wait for someone to get open and then scramble are more easily remembered than the times you eat it waiting forever.

shrader eats it so much

McNabb is the 20th most sacked NFL QB. 22nd in attempts.

Vick 50th most sacked. 91st in attempts. Lamar Jackson 165th and 193rd respectively

I'm mr air raid around here but good air raid offenses have guys that unload the ball quick, that's the best way to avoid sacks

 

[RF2044]

i bet there is a correlation between having the ability to make plays with your legs and hanging on to the ball forever

all those highlights where you wait for someone to get open and then scramble are more easily remembered than the times you eat it waiting forever.

shrader eats it so much

McNabb is the 20th most sacked NFL QB. 22nd in attempts.

Vick 50th most sacked. 91st in attempts. Lamar Jackson 165th and 193rd respectively

I'm mr air raid around here but good air raid offenses have guys that unload the ball quick, that's the best way to avoid sacks

Interesting question.

I was referring more to routine plays. As in, the OL doesn't block effectively, so McNabb [or Dungey, Shrader, or whoever] gets flushed out of the pocket. But since they are so mobile / athletic, they make a play and to the lay observer it isn't readily apparent that the protection broke down.

NFL might be a bit tougher to compare against, given that every college team's biggest, fastest, best technique guy is in the NFL -- so the athletic disparity isn't as apparent or as much of a competitive advantage as it is at the collegiate level.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

There is definitely some validity to this. Shrader's mobility and playmaking aptitude helped mask some shaky OL play. Same with Dungey a few years ago.

And the same that McNabb did back in the day [although the OL was "better" back then. But QBs being able to get out of the pocket and make plays on the move -- whether running or throwing -- helps mask OL issues. McNabb used to get pressured but would pop out of the pocket and make plays, so nobody paid attention to the OL allowing the pressure.

Same as it ever was.

Coach P days we had good run blockers. Pass blocking was masked with mobile QBs.

Dino era they aren’t even good at run blocking.

 

[Millhouse]

Interesting question.

I was referring more to routine plays. As in, the OL doesn't block effectively, so McNabb [or Dungey, Shrader, or whoever] gets flushed out of the pocket. But since they are so mobile / athletic, they make a play and to the lay observer it isn't readily apparent that the protection broke down.

NFL might be a bit tougher to compare against, given that every college team's biggest, fastest, best technique guy is in the NFL -- so the athletic disparity isn't as apparent or as much of a competitive advantage as it is at the collegiate level.

tackles for loss explain this weird season where our average yards per play on both sides is fine, our turnovers are fine

but 7 tackles for loss per game against p5. drive killers... ranked 112th in conference games (7.5)

 

[OttoinGrotto]

i bet there is a correlation between having the ability to make plays with your legs and hanging on to the ball forever

all those highlights where you wait for someone to get open and then scramble are more easily remembered than the times you eat it waiting forever.

shrader eats it so much

McNabb is the 20th most sacked NFL QB. 22nd in attempts.

Vick 50th most sacked. 91st in attempts. Lamar Jackson 165th and 193rd respectively

I'm mr air raid around here but good air raid offenses have guys that unload the ball quick, that's the best way to avoid sacks

Shrader also seems to want to roll outside, even if the blocking is pushing the defensive end outside.

It's weird. But happens 2 or 3 times a game.

Just like, take a step behind where your tackle is, bro.

 

[JeremyCuse]

the DL wasnt expected to be a strength this year

100%, they actually held up a little bit better early then we expected but wore down as teh season went on and obviously injuries as well. That said after the back and forth all off-season on DT size, I think it's clear that even if we are bringing in lighter DL for the 3-3-5 we need 1 or 2 big DT's against power run teams because the lighter DT's clearly will not hold up.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

100%, they actually held up a little bit better early then we expected but wore down as teh season went on and obviously injuries as well. That said after the back and forth all off-season on DT size, I think it's clear that even if we are bringing in lighter DL for the 3-3-5 we need 1 or 2 big DT's against power run teams because the lighter DT's clearly will not hold up.

I think DT is fine, if healthy. The 2nd DE is the issue. We need a guy there. That and having one DE the size of a S. Plus we used Thompson at the LOS a lot. Huge difference not having him this year.