Three road games, how do we do?

[HOFCeluck]

I don’t disagree. Scholarship sanctions were a piece but not the entirety. We missed on kids, others didn’t/haven’t developed and others left unexpectedly. Every case is a separate one and can be viewed as an independent instance but when there’s a trend of these sorts of things, shouldn’t we take a look at how things are done?

A lot of people forget that sanctions were announced in March of 2015. So whatever was going on predates sanctions.

 

[Townie72]

You are really something. I never had Boeheim’s head on a pike. Talk about creating a false narrative. I called for something to change on the coaching staff, whether assistant or head coach. You also overvalue the conference toughness as the Big East was just as tough. Outside of UNC & Duke, what other program gets the press Syracuse does? Florida State, who has been consistently above us? Clemson? No and no. Not on the basketball side, not even close.

Georgetown and Syracuse are apples and oranges. Yes, they were rivals but the two schools and fanbases are a lot different. Syracuse basketball was built by Jim Boeheim, yes. And could there be a drop off when he leaves? Absolutely. But it also has a ton of support - RE: 21,000 on an off night - and is in a premier conference, unlike your example.

Forget Press. Forget attendance. That stuff can fall off very quickly like SU football crowds. Big crowds are an indicator of success and not the cause of it. You have the cart and horse switched around.

You get upset when SU loses some games. What are guys like you going to do when the program sinks down a level? You don't like the Georgetown example? How about St John's after Carneseca or Maryland after Driesel or Indiana after Knight?

Killing the goose that lays the golden eggs is never a good strategy.

 

[CousCuse]

A lot of people forget that sanctions were announced in March of 2015. So whatever was going on predates sanctions.

Your smarter than this Celuck. The NCAA intentionally dragged its feet on finishing up the investigation to shadow sanction program for as long as possible which also had its effect. And there was also the baseless Fine incident which was investigated by the feds who left no stone unturned and found nothing.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Maryland after Driesel

Probably not the best example. For a couple reasons.

 

[OrangeDW]

Forget Press. Forget attendance. That stuff can fall off very quickly like SU football crowds. Big crowds are an indicator of success and not the cause of it. You have the cart and horse switched around.

You get upset when SU loses some games. What are guys like you going to do when the program sinks down a level? You don't like the Georgetown example? How about St John's after Carneseca or Maryland after Driesel or Maryland after Knight?

Killing the goose that lays the golden eggs is never a good strategy.

St. John’s problem was they built dorms and could no longer pay elite NYC players who already had housing, a “housing stipend”. Jarvis was winning there in the late 90s.

Indiana is probably the best example of a historically strong program that has only been successful in fits and starts the last 20 years, and really can’t seem to find the right coach.

Maryland had a heck of a run under Gary Williams?

 

[Townie72]

Probably not the best example. For a couple reasons.

You'll never get an "apples to apples" comparison.

Well the circumstances required Lefty to go. But the records of those who replaced him over a pretty long period of time (Wade - Williams - Turgeon) are facts. Maryland is in an absolute prime recruiting area, has fabulous facilities and location and has a big fan base.

Boeheim's building of the team to meet his strategy will also make replacing him harder. A new coach with very different strategies will have to get the people he needs to execute them. Just like Babers, who has transitioned the team faster than anyone expected.

 

[HOFCeluck]

You'll never get an "apples to apples" comparison.

Well the circumstances required Lefty to go. But the records of those who replaced him over a pretty long period of time (Wade - Williams - Turgeon) are facts. Maryland is in an absolute prime recruiting area, has fabulous facilities and location and has a big fan base.

Boeheim's building of the team to meet his strategy will also make replacing him harder. A new coach with very different strategies will have to get the people he needs to execute them. Just like Babers, who has transitioned the team faster than anyone expected.

Maryland hired a high school coach after Lefty was forced out after his star player Od and died, then the program was placed on a probation that’s as close as possible to the death penalty as you’ll get these days.

And then as Dw pointed out Bob Wades successor had a pretty nice run for about a decade capped off with a final four, national title, and an ACCT championship.

So yeah it’s a terrible comparison.

 

[Townie72]

St. John’s problem was they built dorms and could no longer pay elite NYC players who already had housing, a “housing stipend”. Jarvis was winning there in the late 90s.

Indiana is probably the best example of a historically strong program that has only been successful in fits and starts the last 20 years, and really can’t seem to find the right coach.

Maryland had a heck of a run under Gary Williams?

Statistically, Williams wasn't as good as Lefty. But almost.

But look at where Maryland got Williams from. He had been very successful at BC then had a great job at Ohio State. In a move that confounded just about everyone he left OSU and came back to his alma mater, Maryland. I don't know of any other example that is even close to this. Williams came back to a debacle willingly replacing completely unqualified and unsuccessful Bob Wade.

Williams leaving OSU to come back to the near ruins of Maryland still makes no sense. But it's one of the reasons the Terp fans still love the guy even though he too had his problems.

 

[SUFan44]

Just stop.

No thanks. But appreciate your need to respond constructively.

 

[OrangeDW]

You'll never get an "apples to apples" comparison.

Well the circumstances required Lefty to go. But the records of those who replaced him over a pretty long period of time (Wade - Williams - Turgeon) are facts. Maryland is in an absolute prime recruiting area, has fabulous facilities and location and has a big fan base.

Boeheim's building of the team to meet his strategy will also make replacing him harder. A new coach with very different strategies will have to get the people he needs to execute them. Just like Babers, who has transitioned the team faster than anyone expected.

I think Syracuse basketball is in a fine recruiting area. Reasonably close to a number of major cities.

Plus unlike football, even Upstate NY produces a good number solid players and occasional elite players.

Strong facilities, history, and the location is fine. Top conference. Good coaches will want this job, and a good coach will do well here.

 

[SUFan44]

Forget Press. Forget attendance. That stuff can fall off very quickly like SU football crowds. Big crowds are an indicator of success and not the cause of it. You have the cart and horse switched around.

You get upset when SU loses some games. What are guys like you going to do when the program sinks down a level? You don't like the Georgetown example? How about St John's after Carneseca or Maryland after Driesel or Maryland after Knight?

Killing the goose that lays the golden eggs is never a good strategy.

No, I don’t get upset when the program loses a few games. I get upset when the program begins to deteriorate like it did when older coaches go beyond their prime.

Sanctions are a factor, yes, and again - maybe I don’t value that excuse as much as you do - but the recruiting misses, the continued bubbles and lack of player development are worriesome trends over the last 5 years.

 

[Townie72]

So show me the case where a long time successful coach was replaced by a coach from a mid-major and did markedly better? Especially in the short (2-3 year) timeframe.

And a coach from a mid-major is who we will get. Because SU is hardly an upgrade for a successful major coach. Because of JB's unique strategies, it's going to take a re-engimeering of the squad to adapt to a more standard basketball approach.

Of course, if you think Jay Wright or Tony Bennett will want the job --- as has been suggested on here more than once --- there' isn't much help for you. You are operating in La-La land.

Goose?
Golden Egg?

 

[CousCuse]

No, I don’t get upset when the program loses a few games. I get upset when the program begins to deteriorate like it did when older coaches go beyond their prime.

Sanctions are a factor, yes, and again - maybe I don’t value that excuse as much as you do - but the recruiting misses, the continued bubbles and lack of player development are worriesome trends over the last 5 years.

Duke misses, KU misses, UK misses, MSU misses. They have more scholarships which gives them extra chances when they miss on a player.

 

[rrlbees]

I’m rooting for 2-1. Expecting a loss today tbh.

Also this thread is like a young Hakim Warrick. Oozing with potential.

If we lose tonight, I’m predicting the board will be lit.

 

[Lucid]

you can win by shooting well, but if you play good D and rebound you can make up for shooting.. the games we lose we tend to do all 3 poorly at the same time. a couple games the D was solid but the other 2 failed to show up..

lets hope we see at least two tomorrow.

I like this take. Of the three, I feel like good D is the most "controllable" and also has a huge effect on the other two. When this team plays lock-down defense, it translates to more rebounds and better shots.

LGO!!!!

 

[HOFCeluck]

If we lose tonight, I’m predicting the board will be lit.

I mean it shouldn’t be but you’re probably right.

 

[Townie72]

I think Syracuse basketball is in a fine recruiting area. Reasonably close to a number of major cities.

Plus unlike football, even Upstate NY produces a good number solid players and occasional elite players.

Strong facilities, history, and the location is fine. Top conference. Good coaches will want this job, and a good coach will do well here.

I'm sure we will be able to attract a Mid-Major coach whith a good resume.

Facilities are great as is the history and the conference. Location might be a problem.

But lots of schools have great facilities, are in great conferences and are in better locations. In the ACC, only VT is in a bad geographic area.
.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Why does every thread turn into some kind of bitching about the past 5 years FFS?

 

[Chip]

I’m rooting for 2-1.

You’re rooting for a loss?

Had to.

 

[Chip]

If we lose tonight, I’m predicting the board will be lit.

This board would be lit if we lost to UNLV in 1990 or 91. On a half court buzzer beater.

 

[Townie72]

I mean it shouldn’t be but you’re probably right.

Probably? Probably?

The reaction might be tempered by people feeling they just might have overreacted after Georgia Tech just a tad.

 

[OrangeDW]

I'm sure we will be able to attract a Mid-Major coach whith a good resume.

Facilities are great as is the history and the conference. Location might be a problem.

But lots of schools have great facilities, are in great conferences and are in better locations. In the ACC, only VT is in a bad geographic area.
.

Agreed for the most part. But I do think that after 35-40 years, it’s safe to say that the size and passion of the SU basketball fanbase is a major plus and is not going away anytime soon.

Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Boston College...nobody really cares.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

This board would be lit if we lost to UNLV in 1990 or 91. On a half court buzzer beater.

JB's fault for not guarding the inbounds pass.

 

[SUFan44]

I'm sure we will be able to attract a Mid-Major coach whith a good resume.

Facilities are great as is the history and the conference. Location might be a problem.

But lots of schools have great facilities, are in great conferences and are in better locations. In the ACC, only VT is in a bad geographic area.
.

You undervalue Syracuse’s brand as a basketball program. That is a fact.

Michigan doesn’t have great weather yet it has done just fine. Kansas is in the middle of nowhere. Duke was not what it is now before K - do you think they will drop to mid-major level when he is done?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I don’t disagree. Scholarship sanctions were a piece but not the entirety. We missed on kids, others didn’t/haven’t developed and others left unexpectedly. Every case is a separate one and can be viewed as an independent instance but when there’s a trend of these sorts of things, shouldn’t we take a look at how things are done?

What would you like to take a look at? Ennis, Grant, Malachi, Lydon and McCullough all going pro? Who didn’t develop? Gbinije? Nope. Tyler Roberson? Maybe that was his own fault. Bad luck? Like DeJaun Coleman getting hurt? Moustapha Diagne not qualifying? Every program misses on kids. Do you see those transfers developing elsewhere? Kaleb Jospeh, Taurean Thompson? Matt Moyer?

But let’s fire a HOF coach after 4 games. Especially after a Sweet 16 run. Makes sense.