Ticket/Attendance Madness

[PhatOrange]

stupid reason or not but I know a lot of people who don't go to games because it's simply a pain in the arse to find parking - and they dont want to park and then have to take a shuttle.

there are neighborhoods within walking distance where they cone off both sides of the streets. why would the city do that?

 

[sutomcat]

everyone knows the basketball fan base and the football fan base aren't the same

upstate new york football fans already have favorite professional teams. upstate new york basketball fans don't have favorite pro teams.

right there is your difference. rochester is hopeless. football fans there buy tickets for the bills. they're not going to two games in a weekend. maybe you can go after them when wilson finishes decomposing in detroit and they sell

I guess that would make sense if the Bills didn't exist when Syracuse was averaging 48K or so back in the McNabb era.

This is a complex issue, there are lots of factors. But the one I hear over and over from people I know who used to go to football games and don't any more is that they are sick of losing and don't want to go to games to see Syracuse get beaten all the time.

 

[Millhouse]

I guess that would make sense if the Bills didn't exist when Syracuse was averaging 48K or so back in the McNabb era.

This is a complex issue, there are lots of factors. But the one I hear over and over from people I know who used to go to football games and don't any more is that they are sick of losing and don't want to go to games to see Syracuse get beaten all the time.

obviously losing hurts attendance. but we lose more because people have other alternatives and the overall fan base is smaller. even during the mcnabb years, we were a basketball school.

 

[rrlbees]

There are plenty of non-preferred sideline seats that are vacant. Last 10 rows of the upper deck between the 15's.

Aren't those seats reserved for the coaches in waiting carrying pizza boxes?

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[rrlbees]

obviously losing hurts attendance. but we lose more because people have other alternatives and the overall fan base is smaller. even during the mcnabb years, we were a basketball school.

But there are more college football fans than basketball fans. The attendance numbers alone say that.

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[Millhouse]

But there are more college football fans than basketball fans. The attendance numbers alone say that.

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not in CNY

 

[xc84]

obviously losing hurts attendance. but we lose more because people have other alternatives and the overall fan base is smaller. even during the mcnabb years, we were a basketball school.

There have always been other alternatives. The fanbase is smaller because they have lost so much in the past decade. Being a basketball school during the McNabb years did not hurt football attendance.

 

[xc84]

not in CNY

I think the point is that even when the average paid attendance is low (e.g. 40k), it's still higher than the number of folks that can fit in a basketball game. In fact, if you look at % of capacity, football crowds are better than basketball crowds.

 

[OttoMets]

Suppose I don't get that mentality. If you're seeing a great show or your team is in a dog fight or at least within striking distance why not stay? You've already committed the money and some of your time to the cause. What is that extra half hour gaining you unless you've got young kids to get to bed or somewhere to go early the next day if it's a night game?

Dunno. Unless you've got kids to rush out of there, I don't get it. I've left two Syracuse football games early (Miami in about 2000, Pittsburgh in 2010). Not proud of that. When I enter the Dome, I'm there to see four quarters of football and the team singing the alma mater. That's important to me, and I get the sense (supported in some small part by Lemon's remark) that it's important to the team.

 

[OttoMets]

... attendance in basketball shows that if you put a quality product out on the floor on a consistent basis, people will come to watch. I think it will literally take several years of solid winning seasons before people really come back in the large numbers we all want.
...

I think that basketball is a good counterexample, but this assessment isn't quite accurate.

Our basketball team does win, and does tend to draw well. Like football, though, that isn't enough. There exists a core of diehards and many thousands of people who come out for Big Event Games but no-show in droves throughout the first three months of the year.

We've spent three years playing some of the best basketball of Boeheim's tenure and we've seen increasingly many December games with fewer than 10,000 in actual attendance (you've even noted this in your 'My Take' recaps).

I agree that several years of winning football will produce a bump over what we're seeing now. I also think that a .600 winning percentage in the next five or so years would still result in sub-35,000 crowds for the D-IAAs and sub-40,000 for non-name opponents (including half the ACC).

I'm not passing any sort of value judgment on Central New York fans, nor am I comparing them to fans elsewhere. But I think basketball is a great example of what the population as a whole thinks of a winning team.

 

[OttoMets]

Most everyone has a donation program. We need to have one, it is a lot of money, especially if it grows. The problem we have is getting a LOT more people bought in. With most of the seats being good in the Dome, its hard for the fan to differentiate between an A level seat and a C level. Not sure the typical fan cares if they sit at the 40 or the 25.

But a broader issue is how donations are valued. It was a big mistake to change the construct from one that valued both longevity and what have you done for me this year, to one that places far greater importance on what did you do for me this year. I know people personally that dropped out for that very reason. It gave them the appearance that SU was catering to the johnny come lately and not their long standing donors. There has to be a fair and equitable way. Currently...

1yr @ 10k > 20yrs @ 5k/yr

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If that's true, that's a failing on the part of the athletic department.

I don't regard them with the animus you seem to - people make mistakes, after all - but that's something they ought to reconsider (and should have reconsidered before it became policy).

SU doesn't "owe" its fans anything, per se, but it's good business to value long-term customers. They should appreciate and acknowledge people who have been consistent donors for years

 

[SmilinBob]

I agree otto and that is a problem for a lot of businesses, doing something nice for long term customers especially when they have offers to the new ones that give a better deal.

 

[rrlbees]

not in CNY

30k for bball rocks. 30k for fball sucks.

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[orangecuse]

I guess that would make sense if the Bills didn't exist when Syracuse was averaging 48K or so back in the McNabb era.

This is a complex issue, there are lots of factors. But the one I hear over and over from people I know who used to go to football games and don't any more is that they are sick of losing and don't want to go to games to see Syracuse get beaten all the time.

I find myself in complete agreement with your posts and I couldn't agree more that the losing is the major culprit in attendance. Start winning and people certainly will again want to be part of it, creating the demand (and all that that emcompasses) that is just not there at the moment. The losing wears on you and takes its toll...people want to feel good about themselves, their team, etc., and the positive sentiment it can create in a community, even in the labeled Debbie Downer market that is Syracuse & vicinity.

 

[OttoMets]

stupid reason or not but I know a lot of people who don't go to games because it's simply a pain in the arse to find parking - and they dont want to park and then have to take a shuttle.

there are neighborhoods within walking distance where they cone off both sides of the streets. why would the city do that?

Those people are making excuses. If they actually wanted to go to the games (rather than saying they want to go to games), they'd find a parking spot. It's really damn easy. Just like every motorist does in every city in the world (better, because very few of the spaces on University Hill are metered).

The parking thing is a canard.

To answer your question about Stratford and Ostrom and some of the other off-limits streets, I'm not sure. Maybe SU pays the city to do that? Maybe the city got lazy with enforcing alternate-side parking, had difficulties with throughput on narrow streets, and decided to ban it altogether?

That eliminates some close-in blocks. But it doesn't mean that parking is hard to find, especially given our smaller crowdsof late. For example, in two home games this season, there's been abundant on-street parking on Walnut Avenue south of Genesee. That's under 15 minutes from the Dome on foot. Free of charge. Same thing with much of Lancaster. Real easy.

 

[OttoMets]

...

Carrier Dome Happy Hour. The hour before kickoff you get 2 for 1 beers, sodas, bottled waters.

That's not even a crazy idea. It's a great idea. How could they not try this?

 

[SmilinBob]

Heck, start putting offers in the dine-a-mates and other area coupon books for the whole state as well.

I agree with you guys that winning cures all ills and it always has. If SU can 3 or 4 and 0 sometime I think it would get a lot of potential front runners/casual and can't miss the happening folks out to the games. Create a positive Buzz (pun intended) about the team.

 

[rrlbees]

stupid reason or not but I know a lot of people who don't go to games because it's simply a pain in the arse to find parking - and they dont want to park and then have to take a shuttle.

there are neighborhoods within walking distance where they cone off both sides of the streets. why would the city do that?

That is a fact. People here think it is a BS factor but for some, especially the older fans, it is an issue. The amount of parking availability around the Dome has slowly decreased. Not every 60 or 70 year old long time fan can handle the hill or the long walk or want to be herded like cattle on a shuttle bus.

It's not an excuse for some people but is a reality for them.

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[orangecuse]

Those people are making excuses. If they actually wanted to go to the games (rather than saying they want to go to games), they'd find a parking spot. It's really damn easy. Just like every motorist does in every city in the world (better, because very few of the spaces on University Hill are metered).

The parking thing is a canard.

Completely agree...it's a nothing more than one's choice. Like in the vast majority of everyday decisions made, if you want to make it happen, you generally can.

 

[rrlbees]

Those people are making excuses. If they actually wanted to go to the games (rather than saying they want to go to games), they'd find a parking spot. It's really damn easy. Just like every motorist does in every city in the world (better, because very few of the spaces on University Hill are metered).

The parking thing is a canard.

To answer your question about Stratford and Ostrom and some of the other off-limits streets, I'm not sure. Maybe SU pays the city to do that? Maybe the city got lazy with enforcing alternate-side parking, had difficulties with throughput on narrow streets, and decided to ban it altogether?

That eliminates some close-in blocks. But it doesn't mean that parking is hard to find, especially given our smaller crowdsof late. For example, in two home games this season, there's been abundant on-street parking on Walnut Avenue south of Genesee. That's under 15 minutes from the Dome on foot. Free of charge. Same thing with much of Lancaster. Real easy.

How old are you? Maybe its real easy for you. Reality is though it is not so easy for some and at the least a real PITA for them.

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[SmilinBob]

That's not even a crazy idea. It's a great idea. How could they not try this?

Now that's thinking!!! Now put bars at each end of the endzone all the way across with stools, popcorn/penauts and beer wenches (Male and Female). Like watching the game on TV from a bar only really being there.

 

[orangecuse]

That is a fact. People here think it is a BS factor but for some, especially the older fans, it is an issue. The amount of parking availability around the Dome has slowly decreased. Not every 60 or 70 year old long time fan can handle the hill or the long walk or want to be herded like cattle on a shuttle bus.

It's not an excuse for some people but is a reality for them.

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Are you refering to the demographic that constantly yells at you to sit down at games as if you were at a tennis match?

 

[SmilinBob]

How old are you? Maybe its real easy for you. Reality is though it is not so easy for some and at the least a real PITA for them.

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I wholeheartedly agree with you that SU should have better parking for those who struggle to walk and to add to that make sure those are the ones parking there. If you're lending out your parking pass for 4 20 year old healthy guys then you may get those privileges revoked.

 

[OttoMets]

How old are you? Maybe its real easy for you. Reality is though it is not so easy for some and at the least a real PITA for them.

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Bees, then why can people manage to get around without adjacent parking every place else in the country?

Your language (herding onto a shuttle bus, 60-year-old people) reveals an odd disconnect with the way many people live.

You consider 60- and 70-year-olds to be old and incapable of walking or bus-riding? I don't know any 60-year-old who is old or too unfit to walk for 15 minutes. I truly can't fathom how an able-bodied 60-year-old could conduct his everyday affairs without that ability (unless, of course, he's actually disabled).

And millions of people just like you (and, in fact, much older than you) actually take buses and other forms of mass transit that are much more crowded than SU's Centro shuttles with regularity. There's no herding or cattle. The door opens, you get onto the bus with a crowd of other people, you get off. It's even easier in this case - you're all going to the same place so there's no need to fight your way through a crowd when your stop comes up.

I'm not saying there isn't a subset of handicapped people and truly elderly folks for whom getting to the Dome is a struggle. But that'd be the case whether they park in the Irving Garage or on Euclid. For the overwhelming majority of both Syracuse spectators and society, walking 15 minutes and/or riding a city bus isn't some incredible hardship.

 

[xc84]

I agree that several years of winning football will produce a bump over what we're seeing now. I also think that a .600 winning percentage in the next five or so years would still result in sub-35,000 crowds for the D-IAAs and sub-40,000 for non-name opponents (including half the ACC).

They averaged over 40k last year. You think paid attendance will drop as they win more?