Ticket/Attendance Madness

[rrlbees]

What if they did away completely with the donation aspect of the premium seats, do other programs sell the good seats like this?

Most everyone has a donation program. We need to have one, it is a lot of money, especially if it grows. The problem we have is getting a LOT more people bought in. With most of the seats being good in the Dome, its hard for the fan to differentiate between an A level seat and a C level. Not sure the typical fan cares if they sit at the 40 or the 25.

But a broader issue is how donations are valued. It was a big mistake to change the construct from one that valued both longevity and what have you done for me this year, to one that places far greater importance on what did you do for me this year. I know people personally that dropped out for that very reason. It gave them the appearance that SU was catering to the johnny come lately and not their long standing donors. There has to be a fair and equitable way. Currently...

1yr @ 10k > 20yrs @ 5k/yr

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[billorange44]

A lot of people on all sides of the issue have lost their minds.

Next year and in the future will be a complete reset. The rules and factors driving decisions in the past no longer exist.

There are a bunch of reasons why attendance has decreased, not just one or the other, so people fixated on just one or another are clueless.

It is the economy, it is job loss in the area, it is the state of the program, it is statements made 10 years ago by people no longer here (and people not going because of that are pitiful), it is other activities, it is scheduling issues (noon starts, weeknight games), it is lack of stars, it's the fact the product hasn't been compelling, parking is a bitch, tailgaiting is lacking, it's the lack of a " college football" culture in the NE (there is so much NFL in the area that it crowds out college ball).

The program has to get to a point again where people feel compelled to go instead of looking for a reason not to. 33K+ find a way to make their way to the dome in the middle of winter for an 8PM start for basketball because they decide it's worth overcoming whatever PITA difficulties (greater IMO for hoops than football) are between them and their seats. It's the same stadium, it's the same issues, yet people manage to do that multiple times a year. There's no reason that 15K more can't manage to do that 6 or 7 times a year for football again.

Next year will likely see 5 ACC teams at home and one 1-AA. At least one will be either FSU or Clemson, and I wouldn't be surprised to see either VT or Miami as the home cross divisional game.

You are going to have stars and stories to market again, Broyld, Funderburk, the QB battle.

I expect them to average 45K next year.

A lot of people on all sides of the issue have lost their minds.

Next year and in the future will be a complete reset. The rules and factors driving decisions in the past no longer exist.

There are a bunch of reasons why attendance has decreased, not just one or the other, so people fixated on just one or another are clueless.

It is the economy, it is job loss in the area, it is the state of the program, it is statements made 10 years ago by people no longer here (and people not going because of that are pitiful), it is other activities, it is scheduling issues (noon starts, weeknight games), it is lack of stars, it's the fact the product hasn't been compelling, parking is a bitch, tailgaiting is lacking, it's the lack of a " college football" culture in the NE (there is so much NFL in the area that it crowds out college ball).

The program has to get to a point again where people feel compelled to go instead of looking for a reason not to. 33K+ find a way to make their way to the dome in the middle of winter for an 8PM start for basketball because they decide it's worth overcoming whatever PITA difficulties (greater IMO for hoops than football) are between them and their seats. It's the same stadium, it's the same issues, yet people manage to do that multiple times a year. There's no reason that 15K more can't manage to do that 6 or 7 times a year for football again.

Next year will likely see 5 ACC teams at home and one 1-AA. At least one will be either FSU or Clemson, and I wouldn't be surprised to see either VT or Miami as the home cross divisional game.

You are going to have stars and stories to market again, Broyld, Funderburk, the QB battle.

I expect them to average 45K next year.

Sometime after the the 2001 season attendance started to decline. The get a life statement sure didn't help. P&D's screw up's and way to many What games added fuel to the fire. I thought it was nit picking to not go to games after Shaw's comment.

We have only sold the Dome out once. Not even when guys like McNabb, Graves or McPhearson were here could we do it. When teams like Notre Dame, Auburn, Ohio State, and Miami to name a few could we sell it out.

Now, after all the bad to not much better teams over 10 years and not to mention the up and down of going to a bowl and then coming out and really sucking the next year, people are pretty sick of the roller coaster sensation.

I guess what I am trying to say is, if we don't get some quality players to build the program, we won't get quality wins to keep people going through the turnstiles.

I just don't think we will average 45, 000 next year. Even when McNabb was here all we averaged was 45,000. We don't have anyone of his caliber yet. If Broyld works out or that kid who is coming in next year, the Texas quarterback, his name escapes me, that may get us heading in the right direction for attendance to go up. I really think it will take a while.

 

[Millhouse]

Most everyone has a donation program. We need to have one, it is a lot of money, especially if it grows. The problem we have is getting a LOT more people bought in. With most of the seats being good in the Dome, its hard for the fan to differentiate between an A level seat and a C level. Not sure the typical fan cares if they sit at the 40 or the 25.

But a broader issue is how donations are valued. It was a big mistake to change the construct from one that valued both longevity and what have you done for me this year, to one that places far greater importance on what did you do for me this year. I know people personally that dropped out for that very reason. It gave them the appearance that SU was catering to the johnny come lately and not their long standing donors. There has to be a fair and equitable way. Currently...

1yr @ 10k > 20yrs @ 5k/yr

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

start over. i don't care about being fair and equitable to some petty jerkoff who would prefer having an empty section to a full section where some people paid less. get people in the seats and hope for the best with donations.

 

[xc84]

Even when McNabb was here all we averaged was 45,000.

1995 6 244,171 43,276
1996 6 289,064 48,177
1997 6 275,188 45,865
1998 6 287,386 47,898


1995 6 244,171 43,276
1996 6 289,064 48,177
1997 6 275,188 45,865
1998 6 287,386 47,898

 

[MaxwellCuse]

What is SU doing to build better awareness of Syracuse Football in places like the Capital District, Binghamton, Utica, Poughkeepsie, Rochester, etc.? I live in the far reaches of the Albany metro area and am an alum and I honestly don't know what SU is doing to cultivate fans and alums here. I follow SU athletics largely because I have always done so (going on 47 years), but I'll admit that trips back to the Dome became less and less frequent during the past decade. And it had nothing to do with Buzz Shaw.

Maybe I'm missing something but it seems that while TGD is billing Syracuse University as "New York's College Team," the focus of the marketing has been on NYC to the exclusion of most everywhere else. Of course, until the FB is consistently WINNING and the economy turns around convincingly I wouldn't expect to see a major surge upward in attendance. Just trading the BE for the ACC won't do it IMO.

 

[xc84]

What is SU doing to build better awareness of Syracuse Football in places like the Capital District, Binghamton, Utica, Poughkeepsie, Rochester, etc.?

For Rochester, he had a spring practice there. He took the team to Watertown for camp. But sure, he could do more. However, he's going to the alums...and many are in NYC.

 

[Deano]

Any ideas on how to get those 45k into their seats by kickoff and keep them there past the end of the 3rd quarter? This is a bigger issue IMHO than whether it's 35k or 45k in the seats.

Stop having a lot of noon games and more night games.

 

[billorange44]

1995 6 244,171 43,276
1996 6 289,064 48,177
1997 6 275,188 45,865
1998 6 287,386 47,898


1995 6 244,171 43,276
1996 6 289,064 48,177
1997 6 275,188 45,865
1998 6 287,386 47,898

McNabb started in 1995 as a redshirt freshman. The average attendance was 45, 000 per year in his 4 years not 3.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

When every season ticket cost the same ... people wanted to sit as close to the 50 yard line as they could. The sidelines were always filled up, and the end zones were empty.

Now, we're upside down. If you can get end zone tix for $99, why would you want to pay $205 for sideline tix.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Stop having a lot of noon games and more night games.

Isn't that up to the ACC? Other than Stonybrook, did SU have any control over the other 4 home start times this season?

 

[rrlbees]

When every season ticket cost the same ... people wanted to sit as close to the 50 yard line as they could. The sidelines were always filled up, and the end zones were empty.

Now, we're upside down. If you can get end zone tix for $99, why would you want to pay $205 for sideline tix.

Plus the donation for the sideline seats.

 

[rrlbees]

start over. i don't care about being fair and equitable to some petty jerkoff who would prefer having an empty section to a full section where some people paid less. get people in the seats and hope for the best with donations.

your first and last sentence are fine.

 

[upperdeck]

its not just about the winning that will bring people back. its winning/excitement/quality opp/demand/weather/cost/tv/game time.. Basketball wins and yet we have way more games under 20K than we do over 25k. Winning + great opp + weekend we get over 30K sometimes.

so why do we expect football to fill 80% when basketball doesnt do it?

they reality is we have less fans, even though the seating is better and the cost is much lower. there have been a ton of exciting games the last few years, much better than many of the bball games and people are not showing up.

there is no demand so people pick a few games to go to. they dont sell all the $100 season tickets so cost is not the issue. how many kids got in free last week? marketing is part of the problem. you cant announce stuff 2-3 days ahead of time. they need to get out in the public and talk with people to find out what people want and why they dont come. More than anything else its cost and tv. its just too easy to stay home. they need to get creative. offer people things like 5 year locked in pricing, offer season ticket holders better pricing on extra tickets, more tier options/pricing for kids, better pricing on multiple game packages. give people a reason to want to buy into the sideline seats. if you buy the $100 end zone you get a game on the sideline for dirt cheap or free. offer some sideline for less than double/triple the endzone.

and they need to work on the students. why should they stay. create some promotions for staying the whole game.

they dont seem to have ideas so take ours, they have done it in the past and taken credit for it..

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Plus the donation for the sideline seats.

There are plenty of non-preferred sideline seats that are vacant. Last 10 rows of the upper deck between the 15's.

 

[Chip]

The fans in CNY are some of the best in the country. I know IthacaBarrel and others are overstating with their anit-CNY propaganda statements to get a rise out of some but attendance in basketball shows that if you put a quality product out on the floor on a consistent basis, people will come to watch. I think it will literally take several years of solid winning seasons before people really come back in the large numbers we all want.

Just one man's opinion here, but I don't think the 2 phrases I bolded go hand in hand. It's basically saying if you're really good, then we're really good fans. Well, who isn't?

To me, when I think of some of the best fans in the country, I think of something like South Carolina, who was still getting 80k strong pre-Spurrier, I think one of those seasons they might have been winless.

We do have some fans that I'd defend against any fans in the country. But overall, when it comes to college football, I just can't see any argument that puts CNY even in the Others Receiving Votes section.

 

[Chip]

start over. i don't care about being fair and equitable to some petty jerkoff who would prefer having an empty section to a full section where some people paid less. get people in the seats and hope for the best with donations.

Agree, start it over, then build it back up if we stay good. The people who were paying a lot, will still go. They obviously love SU football because who in their right mind would pay that much money for what we've been seeing? That group isn't the problem.

We have a windfall to start offsetting some of short term decreases we may see.

Long term, it should help improve the product. It would be easier to recruit using a full Dome as a tool. And as we get better, you build back up the price and find your new tipping points.

Remember the days when we used to complain about ticket prices going up? There was actually a time, believe it or not.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

For Rochester, he had a spring practice there. He took the team to Watertown for camp. But sure, he could do more. However, he's going to the alums...and many are in NYC.

That's what HCDM is doing, and I have no complaints with what he has done. I'm interested in what TGD and his crack marketing team have been doing however. I may also have no complaints about them but I really don't have any evidence to judge one way or the other.

 

[xc84]

McNabb started in 1995 as a redshirt freshman. The average attendance was 45, 000 per year in his 4 years not 3.

you had said "Even when McNabb was here all we averaged was 45,000." McNabb started for four years. Those years were:

1995 6 244,171 43,276
1996 6 289,064 48,177
1997 6 275,188 45,865
1998 6 287,386 47,898

In 3 of the 4 years McNabb was here, SU averaged over 45K. (from a low of 45,865 to a high of 48,177). For all 4 of those years, the average was 46,304. For the last 3 it was 47,313 (an AVERAGE of 96% capacity).

 

[Ozcuse]

My ideas to get people there before kickoff and to stay to the end.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is a Tshirt cannon.
T-shirt cannon pregame. Tshirt cannon halftime. Tshirt cannon 4th Quarter. Tshirt cannons are awesome.

For our blue haired fans. Put bingo cards in the programs. Play one before kickoff, and then start another with a few numbers out at end of 1st, halftime, end of 3rd, and with 2 minutes left in the game. Hell, you don't even need to announce them, just put them on the ribbon board. Could also do this similarly with Otto Scratch Off cards in the programs, or numbers on the back of the admission ticket. Boom.

Dueling marching bands. Have the SU marching band compete against the other teams band, and have crowd noise determine the winner. Could do this before kickoff.

Events on the sideline before kickoff allowing young kids to meet some players/coaches in a way that doesn't interfere with the team warming up.

Carrier Dome Happy Hour. The hour before kickoff you get 2 for 1 beers, sodas, bottled waters.

Lock the doors after kickoff (just kidding, kinda.)

 

[snowycuse]

If I could suggest one thing to those at the University who do not listen it would be to fix the pricing structure for kids. They have lost an entire generation of CNY kids that simply were never going to spend big money for a ticket during the ages of 13+. Go back to 18 and under for discounted tickets. Makes it much more affordable to take your GF to a game when you are getting $7 at BK as a 16 year old and the whole family can attend more games. I was hooked as a Cuse basketball fan because my father brought us all out to one big game, usually Uconn or Georgetown every year around my bday. As a teen I went to every game I could afford cause it was 18 and under. I would have never spent todays prices of $35 a game. Now I am a season ticket holder. Cost/Benefit if you can get 22K a game in basketball or 38K in football at relatively high prices its probably not a big deal but take the revenue loss and fill the place up which will give you a future net gain in recruits and fans. The current group is getting older and the program has done no cultivation, especially in football, in a decade. its going to get worse before it gets better.

 

[Millhouse]

Just one man's opinion here, but I don't think the 2 phrases I bolded go hand in hand. It's basically saying if you're really good, then we're really good fans. Well, who isn't?

To me, when I think of some of the best fans in the country, I think of something like South Carolina, who was still getting 80k strong pre-Spurrier, I think one of those seasons they might have been winless.

We do have some fans that I'd defend against any fans in the country. But overall, when it comes to college football, I just can't see any argument that puts CNY even in the Others Receiving Votes section.

everyone knows the basketball fan base and the football fan base aren't the same

upstate new york football fans already have favorite professional teams. upstate new york basketball fans don't have favorite pro teams.

right there is your difference. rochester is hopeless. football fans there buy tickets for the bills. they're not going to two games in a weekend. maybe you can go after them when wilson finishes decomposing in detroit and they sell

 

[sutomcat]

Just one man's opinion here, but I don't think the 2 phrases I bolded go hand in hand. It's basically saying if you're really good, then we're really good fans. Well, who isn't?

To me, when I think of some of the best fans in the country, I think of something like South Carolina, who was still getting 80k strong pre-Spurrier, I think one of those seasons they might have been winless.

We do have some fans that I'd defend against any fans in the country. But overall, when it comes to college football, I just can't see any argument that puts CNY even in the Others Receiving Votes section.

My position is that we have great fans for basketball and they would be great fans for football too, if not for how awful the program has bad for such an extended period.

Syracuse gets 22 or 23K for basketball each season despite playing regularly games in awful weather, often on weekday nights. It is something no one in South Carolina ever has to contend with. I don't think the fanbase for any major basketball program in the country has to deal with this. We have had 28K show up for a weekday evening game in the middle of a blizzard. No other fanbase does this.

We also travel to away venues for basketball extremely well. We are surely one of the top ten programs in the country doing this.

Why are we great supporting basketball and bad supporting football? Is it because people in CNY love basketball that much more than football? I have lived here my whole life, I am surrounded by the fanbase every day and I just don't buy that.

When given a quality product to watch (that means a consistent top 25 caliber team), the fans will come. As discussed in this thread, we have averaged over 48K before when in that position before. I believe we will again if we can ever get consistently good at football again.

 

[Millhouse]

My position is that we have great fans for basketball and they would be great fans for football too, if not for how awful the program has bad for such an extended period.

Syracuse gets 22 or 23K for basketball each season despite playing regularly games in awful weather, often on weekday nights. It is something no one in South Carolina ever has to contend with. I don't think the fanbase for any major basketball program in the country has to deal with this. We have had 28K show up for a weekday evening game in the middle of a blizzard. No other fanbase does this.

We also travel to away venues for basketball extremely well. We are surely one of the top ten programs in the country doing this.

Why are we great supporting basketball and bad supporting football? Is it because people in CNY love basketball that much more than football? I have lived here my whole life, I am surrounded by the fanbase every day and I just don't buy that.

When given a quality product to watch (that means a consistent top 25 caliber team), the fans will come. As discussed in this thread, we have averaged over 48K before when in that position before. I believe we will again if we can ever get consistently good at football again.

people in CNY might love football just as much as basketball but they might not love college football as much as college basketball.

 

[MeloMan]

Most everyone has a donation program. We need to have one, it is a lot of money, especially if it grows. The problem we have is getting a LOT more people bought in. With most of the seats being good in the Dome, its hard for the fan to differentiate between an A level seat and a C level. Not sure the typical fan cares if they sit at the 40 or the 25.

But a broader issue is how donations are valued. It was a big mistake to change the construct from one that valued both longevity and what have you done for me this year, to one that places far greater importance on what did you do for me this year. I know people personally that dropped out for that very reason. It gave them the appearance that SU was catering to the johnny come lately and not their long standing donors. There has to be a fair and equitable way. Currently...

1yr @ 10k > 20yrs @ 5k/yr

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

YES , YES, YES. In my opinion, there are two separate, albeit related issues. One is overall attendance, but the bigger issue is preferred season ticket holders (especially A & B level) - this is the number that has really dropped and will be most difficult to recapture. As Bees said, why spend well over $100 per ticket per game (preferred donation + cost of ticket) when you can buy a ticket for $10 - $25 with only marginally worse sightlines? The most glaring empty pockets in the dome are between the 20s. Recapturing the non-preferred seats is not that complicated - win consistently and casual fans will pay those prices and show up. The more difficult issue is convincing people to pay > $100 ticket for a game. Winnng consistently will certainly help - but there needs to be more.

 

[xc84]

YES , YES, YES. In my opinion, there are two separate, albeit related issues. One is overall attendance, but the bigger issue is preferred season ticket holders (especially A & B level) - this is the number that has really dropped and will be most difficult to recapture. As Bees said, why spend well over $100 per ticket per game (preferred donation + cost of ticket) when you can buy a ticket for $10 - $25 with only marginally worse sightlines? The most glaring empty pockets in the dome are between the 20s. Recapturing the non-preferred seats is not that complicated - win consistently and casual fans will pay those prices and show up. The more difficult issue is convincing people to pay > $100 ticket for a game. Winnng consistently will certainly help - but there needs to be more.

Haven't preferred seats always cost more? However, the cost was justified when they won. When they started losing every year, it's hard to justify the extra cost. It's about Ws...even for preferred ticket holders. That does not mean the university should not change anything or do a better job of making these people happy... but the main ingredient to increased attendance is more Ws. The rest is icing on the cake.