Ticket/Attendance Madness

[Millhouse]

How old are you? Maybe its real easy for you. Reality is though it is not so easy for some and at the least a real PITA for them.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

old people that can't walk or ride a bus don't go to many football games anywhere

sucks to get old. but what do you want SU to do about it?

 

[OttoMets]

They averaged over 40k last year. You think paid attendance will drop as they win more?

No, no, just for those specific games. We'd certainly see average attendance go up. But it's pretty unlikely that we'd get even 40,000 for Stony Brook. Or much more than 40,000 for Wake (assuming that Wake remains Wake and doesn't have another 2006-type season or play us on a particularly exciting Senior Day or something).

Point was just that people are always going to show up in significantly larger numbers for bigger "event' games in both basketball and football. Circumstances, weather, gametime, and (especially) opponent contribute heavily to this.

And that's assuming we have a winning team.

 

[xc84]

No, no, just for those specific games. We'd certainly see average attendance go up. But it's pretty unlikely that we'd get even 40,000 for Stony Brook. Or much more than 40,000 for Wake (assuming that Wake remains Wake and doesn't have another 2006-type season or play us on a particularly exciting Senior Day or something).

Point was just that people are always going to show up in significantly larger numbers for bigger "event' games in both basketball and football. Circumstances, weather, gametime, and (especially) opponent contribute heavily to this.

And that's assuming we have a winning team.

I agree...sort of. It's about demand and capacity. If we have demand of say, 70k (I can dream) for big games, maybe we could have a demand of much less for Stony Brook but still fill the Dome.


Frankly, if we can average 48K again, I'd be happy. I think we can.

 

[rrlbees]

Bees, then why can people manage to get around without adjacent parking every place else in the country?

Your language (herding onto a shuttle bus, 60-year-old people) reveals an odd disconnect with the way many people live.

You consider 60- and 70-year-olds to be old and incapable of walking or bus-riding? I don't know any 60-year-old who is old or too unfit to walk for 15 minutes. I truly can't fathom how an able-bodied 60-year-old could conduct his everyday affairs without that ability (unless, of course, he's actually disabled).

And millions of people just like you (and, in fact, much older than you) actually take buses and other forms of mass transit that are much more crowded than SU's Centro shuttles with regularity. There's no herding or cattle. The door opens, you get onto the bus with a crowd of other people, you get off. It's even easier in this case - you're all going to the same place so there's no need to fight your way through a crowd when your stop comes up.

I'm not saying there isn't a subset of handicapped people and truly elderly folks for whom getting to the Dome is a struggle. But that'd be the case whether they park in the Irving Garage or on Euclid. For the overwhelming majority of both Syracuse spectators and society, walking 15 minutes and/or riding a city bus isn't some incredible hardship.

I didnt say every 60 or 70 year old and I am not talking handicapped because there is some handicapped parking. But I know several older people that gave their tixs up because of the walk. Maybe it isnt the 15 mins but maybe the hill itself. And the bus did not appeal to them either. It is someones reality that they can't handle it, not an excuse to not go to the game. They would probably still go if parking was more available. I realize there is nothing that can be done short of moving the Dome to South Campus, but places that have large parking lots surrounding the stadiums are far easier to deal with from a walking and access standpoint for some people.

Point is, not everyone is making an excuse but making a decision because some of them would still go to games, or at least some of them. It is a fact that the circumstances make it difficult for a segment of our fanbase.

 

[rrlbees]

old people that can't walk or ride a bus don't go to many football games anywhere

sucks to get old. but what do you want SU to do about it?

nothing they can do. and su's paqrking/hills etc is not the same as every school. just poiting out that not everyone is making excuses for not going. they're makiing a personal decision on what they can handle.

 

[OttoMets]

I didnt say every 60 or 70 year old and I am not talking handicapped because there is some handicapped parking. But I know several older people that gave their tixs up because of the walk. Maybe it isnt the 15 mins but maybe the hill itself. And the bus did not appeal to them either. It is someones reality that they can't handle it, not an excuse to not go to the game. They would probably still go if parking was more available. I realize there is nothing that can be done short of moving the Dome to South Campus, but places that have large parking lots surrounding the stadiums are far easier to deal with from a walking and access standpoint for some people.

Point is, not everyone is making an excuse but making a decision because some of them would still go to games, or at least some of them. It is a fact that the circumstances make it difficult for a segment of our fanbase.

Hey, as Yogi (or someone) said, if they won't go, no one's stopping 'em.

But as far as "want' goes, it seems that most able-bodied folks who really do want to attend a Syracuse University sporting event will walk up a hill or take a bus to do so.

No desire to argue or belabor this point; there are varying degrees of "want to.' For those who consider seeing the football team a high priority, walking or bus-riding seems a very modest step toward making that happen.

 

[orangecuse]

I didnt say every 60 or 70 year old and I am not talking handicapped because there is some handicapped parking. But I know several older people that gave their tixs up because of the walk. Maybe it isnt the 15 mins but maybe the hill itself. And the bus did not appeal to them either. It is someones reality that they can't handle it, not an excuse to not go to the game. They would probably still go if parking was more available. I realize there is nothing that can be done short of moving the Dome to South Campus, but places that have large parking lots surrounding the stadiums are far easier to deal with from a walking and access standpoint for some people.

Point is, not everyone is making an excuse but making a decision because some of them would still go to games, or at least some of them. It is a fact that the circumstances make it difficult for a segment of our fanbase.

With all due respect, isn't that particular demographic normal societal attrition? I mean people retire, etc., it doesn't stop corporations from growing or hiring on new people to replace them. I guess, in my opinion, it really isn't a big deal in the larger/broader scope.

 

[upperdeck]

those same people would not be able to go to a game at WV or PSU or many other places as well.. its not like its a simple walk to get to a game in most stadiums even if they have on site parking.. how close are people getting in Mich or Tenn when 100,000 are showing up?

if people want to pay for a pass and park at Manley/skytop is the bus really the issue? you can park and walk 40-50ft to get on and then its a walk across the quad to get to the dome. thats about the same as if you were parking in the quad itself. for most games the wait to get on the bus is less than the wait to get out of the dome itself.

have people been to stadiums where parking is really that easy? go to a mets/red sox game its a pain in lots of places, in some ways its easier to get to a syracuse game.

 

[dollarbill44]

Good post.

Only thing is that I'd be shocked if we "averaged" 45K next year. The attendance decline didn't happen overnight, and it won't be solved quickly either.

Coming off, say, an 8 or 9 win season with a bowl win would really help though. A lot.

This is correct. It will take a string of 8+win seasons to get the crowds routinely over 40k.

 

[OttoMets]

those same people would not be able to go to a game at WV or PSU or many other places as well.. its not like its a simple walk to get to a game in most stadiums even if they have on site parking.. how close are people getting in Mich or Tenn when 100,000 are showing up?

if people want to pay for a pass and park at Manley/skytop is the bus really the issue? you can park and walk 40-50ft to get on and then its a walk across the quad to get to the dome. thats about the same as if you were parking in the quad itself. for most games the wait to get on the bus is less than the wait to get out of the dome itself.

have people been to stadiums where parking is really that easy? go to a mets/red sox game its a pain in lots of places, in some ways its easier to get to a syracuse game.

My only big-school experience is WVU and Texas A&M. Each has some large surface lots, but they're not open to the cheapo ticker-buyer from Syracuse. There's a walk involved. And the one in Morgantown is up a hill (there's a bus option from the Coliseum, too). TAMU's flat, but people park very far away. And a great deal of the tailgating is done on grassy areas; people ditch their cars and bring their tents and things onto the lawn. (I've long lobbied for a similar set-up on our Quad and other lawns; it'd really help alleviate the future parking crunch that tailgaters are going to experience this decade.)

 

[Ozcuse]

I think the bigger problem that Bees has identified is that hard-core fans have gotten older and for one reason or another have stopped attending and SU has not been able to attract enough younger fans to replace them in seats and/or replace their donations.

Retiring baby boomers is a big problem in general and I think the Dome does need to try and do something to help it.

 

[orangecuse]

I think the bigger problem that Bees has identified is that hard-core fans have gotten older and for one reason or another have stopped attending and SU has not been able to attract enough younger fans to replace them in seats and/or replace their donations.

Retiring baby boomers is a big problem in general and I think the Dome does need to try and do something to help it.

Quite possible, but really inevitable. How you attract younger fans is rather simple...WIN! The commitment has begun...hopefully so will the wins.

 

[dollarbill44]

Probably never going to happen. Look at shots of the fourth quarter against Miami in 1998. Some people want to hear the alma mater. Most want to get out of there as early as possible.

SU has the absolute worst fans when it comes to punctuality. I have never seen another big-time football program who has a majority of fans that miss the opening kickoff. Case in point: the USC fans were nearly all in their seats for when their team came out of the tunnel. I don't think SU fans (as a whole) understand the emotional lift the team gets from coming out to a huge ovation. This is a large part of the college gameday experience.

I don't know when this started. Maybe it was a gradual thing, but it really needs to be reversed.

 

[dollarbill44]

Quite possible, but really inevitable. How you attract younger fans is rather simple...WIN!

Let them in free for every FCS opponent.

 

[orangecuse]

SU has the absolute worst fans when it comes to punctuality. I have never seen another big-time football program who has a majority of fans that miss the opening kickoff. Case in point: the USC fans were nearly all in their seats for when their team came out of the tunnel. I don't think SU fans (as a whole) understand the emotional lift the team gets from coming out to a huge ovation. This is a large part of the college gameday experience.

I don't know when this started. Maybe it was a gradual thing, but it really needs to be reversed.

That's because they're having too much fun beforehand...once inside/seated...it's all downhill from there.

 

[SmilinBob]

SU has the absolute worst fans when it comes to punctuality. I have never seen another big-time football program who has a majority of fans that miss the opening kickoff. Case in point: the USC fans were nearly all in their seats for when their team came out of the tunnel. I don't think SU fans (as a whole) understand the emotional lift the team gets from coming out to a huge ovation. This is a large part of the college gameday experience.

I don't know when this started. Maybe it was a gradual thing, but it really needs to be reversed.

Yeah, I find that odd as well...seems like they (the late ones) all come in during the national anthem.

 

[DPCuse]

My ideas to boost attendance:
1. Big party on the quad before and after the game for afternoon games (sort of do this now pregame but beef it up somehow)
2. Schedule bus trips sponsored by SU from Albany and Buffalo and maybe even from Binghamton and Watertown. As many buses as you need from each point. Stop in Utica, Rochester, Cortland, wherever. $30-40 includes ticket and transportation. Make it work. People can tailgate and not worry about DWI. And they are forced to stay to the end.
3. Let kids run on field after the game.
4. Schedule HS football games either before or after the SU game. That alone might add a thousand and might help recruiting.
5. TV hurts and I wouldn't suggest not having it but maybe show Time Warner games on tape delay. I think a lot of people stay home and turn it off if it gets lopsided.

I'm sure there are more options but those are a few that come to mind.

 

[dollarbill44]

My ideas to boost attendance:
1. Big party on the quad before and after the game for afternoon games (sort of do this now pregame but beef it up somehow)
2. Schedule bus trips sponsored by SU from Albany and Buffalo and maybe even from Binghamton and Watertown. As many buses as you need from each point. Stop in Utica, Rochester, Cortland, wherever. $30-40 includes ticket and transportation. Make it work. People can tailgate and not worry about DWI. And they are forced to stay to the end.
3. Let kids run on field after the game.
4. Schedule HS football games either before or after the SU game. That alone might add a thousand and might help recruiting.
5. TV hurts and I wouldn't suggest not having it but maybe show Time Warner games on tape delay. I think a lot of people stay home and turn it off if it gets lopsided.

I'm sure there are more options but those are a few that come to mind.

I like #3. If they can let kids run bases at major league ballparks, SU can let kids run on the field.

 

[rrlbees]

I think the bigger problem that Bees has identified is that hard-core fans have gotten older and for one reason or another have stopped attending and SU has not been able to attract enough younger fans to replace them in seats and/or replace their donations.

Retiring baby boomers is a big problem in general and I think the Dome does need to try and do something to help it.

Thats a good point regardless of their reasons.

 

[PhatOrange]

I know plenty of lazy people in there 20s 30s 40s who don't like to walk either. Doesn't matter if in shape either people are just lazy, why bother with the hassle if u can just watch on tv.

We're not talking die hard fans here, we're talking the casual fan.

 

[rrlbees]

With all due respect, isn't that particular demographic normal societal attrition? I mean people retire, etc., it doesn't stop corporations from growing or hiring on new people to replace them. I guess, in my opinion, it really isn't a big deal in the larger/broader scope.

Not saying it isnt natural attrition for some, but it is a fact that there is a segment, even if a small segment, of people that don't go because it is not easy (physically) for them to handle the situation. They aren't handicapped and they aren't spring chickens that can run up and down hills.

 

[rrlbees]

Hey, as Yogi (or someone) said, if they won't go, no one's stopping 'em.

But as far as "want' goes, it seems that most able-bodied folks who really do want to attend a Syracuse University sporting event will walk up a hill or take a bus to do so.

No desire to argue or belabor this point; there are varying degrees of "want to.' For those who consider seeing the football team a high priority, walking or bus-riding seems a very modest step toward making that happen.

There are varying degrees of "want to", 100% agree with that. I know too many people that hem and haw. But there are also varying degrees of "can" oe "able".

 

[IthacaMatt]

A lot of people on all sides of the issue have lost their minds.

Next year and in the future will be a complete reset. The rules and factors driving decisions in the past no longer exist.

There are a bunch of reasons why attendance has decreased, not just one or the other, so people fixated on just one or another are clueless.

It is the economy, it is job loss in the area, it is the state of the program, it is statements made 10 years ago by people no longer here (and people not going because of that are pitiful), it is other activities, it is scheduling issues (noon starts, weeknight games), it is lack of stars, it's the fact the product hasn't been compelling, parking is a bitch, tailgaiting is lacking, it's the lack of a " college football" culture in the NE (there is so much NFL in the area that it crowds out college ball).

The program has to get to a point again where people feel compelled to go instead of looking for a reason not to. 33K+ find a way to make their way to the dome in the middle of winter for an 8PM start for basketball because they decide it's worth overcoming whatever PITA difficulties (greater IMO for hoops than football) are between them and their seats. It's the same stadium, it's the same issues, yet people manage to do that multiple times a year. There's no reason that 15K more can't manage to do that 6 or 7 times a year for football again.

Next year will likely see 5 ACC teams at home and one 1-AA. At least one will be either FSU or Clemson, and I wouldn't be surprised to see either VT or Miami as the home cross divisional game.

You are going to have stars and stories to market again, Broyld, Funderburk, the QB battle.

I expect them to average 45K next year.

Yes, and another point to add. By adding quality name ACC schools to the home schedule in place of the C-USA dreck that we've been asked to adopt as "rivals", it won't hurt so bad to have that one big game down in the Meadowlands each year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

YES. Though the basketball bit is exaggerated.

Those who complain about parking and Kenneth Shaw are looking for excuses not to attend. I don't know why they're less interested than the rest of us, but they are. Hopefully some of them come back (or some newbies are converted - as IB said earlier, it's nice for the younger set to get indoctrinated early).

Parking is not a minor concern. Lots on Irving were charging $20 a game last hoops season, and one place only lowered it to $15 toward the end of the season when people made other arrangements. That is not cheap.

 

[rrlbees]

SU has the absolute worst fans when it comes to punctuality. I have never seen another big-time football program who has a majority of fans that miss the opening kickoff. Case in point: the USC fans were nearly all in their seats for when their team came out of the tunnel. I don't think SU fans (as a whole) understand the emotional lift the team gets from coming out to a huge ovation. This is a large part of the college gameday experience.

I don't know when this started. Maybe it was a gradual thing, but it really needs to be reversed.

I'm sure a lot of SU fans were tailgating still or cleaning up. We do a bad job with the timing of tearing things down. While there may have been USC fans tailgating, I am sure there weren't as many because they flew across country and it is harder to set up a tailgate.