Tiger...

[jncuse]

jack vs tiger is a great debate.. but anyone who knows golf, and that is people far wiser than most of us, knows its jack by a mile.

top 10 golfers of all time

jack had to beat player/watson/palmer in the prime of their game. Woods had to beat no one of that level.

top 20of all time

jack had player/watson/palmer/norman/casper/faldo/trevino/seve/

tiger has rory?/phil

jack has 20 and had multiple stolen by all time greats. Tiger basically won every time he played well

top 5 is 56 to 31.. almost twice as many . did anyone watch the Jack special on golf channel when the showed the records to guys like Rory and their eyes bugged out..

56 top 5's twice a year for 28 years..

Anyone who knows anything about golf knows that comparing top 5 and top 10 stats in Jack's era compared to Tiger's era and epecially now is out of the loop There was no depth in golf back in the 60's and 70's.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

jack vs tiger is a great debate.. but anyone who knows golf, and that is people far wiser than most of us, knows its jack by a mile.

top 10 golfers of all time

jack had to beat player/watson/palmer in the prime of their game. Woods had to beat no one of that level.

top 20of all time

jack had player/watson/palmer/norman/casper/faldo/trevino/seve/

tiger has rory?/phil

jack has 20 and had multiple stolen by all time greats. Tiger basically won every time he played well

top 5 is 56 to 31.. almost twice as many . did anyone watch the Jack special on golf channel when the showed the records to guys like Rory and their eyes bugged out..

56 top 5's twice a year for 28 years..

I think this is an interesting question. I will preface this by saying generally in athletics, newer is better.
It might be that Jack's peers we're not as good as Tigers, but that Tiger was just so much better than his peers that they, in comparison, do not look as strong as Jack's best rivals. Maybe Jack was just barely beating, and sometimes losing to, pretty equal players, but Tiger was destroying even better players.
In other words, would Phil be considered one of the best of all time, but for Tiger?

In golf is it so hard to tell, because of the equipment changes. One thing I do know (or think I do) is that they tried to "Tiger proof" some courses. They never tried to "Bear proof" any courses in Jack's prime.

 

[realorange]

Players and broadcasters of golf tournaments will tell you that they have seen Tiger hit shots like they have never seen before.
For some people, he will never be as good as Jack mainly because of his personal faults.

 

[Cuseregular]

Nowhere near Jack? Huh? He’s right there...wins...majors...

Meaning winning a major at a later age, sorry wasn't clear, also meaning having a meaningful career in his later years.

In the old days most of the players rode out and had conservative treatments to fight the back issues, letting the spine naturally remodel and paradoxically ultimately self strengthen after a period of instability and they can still play at a decent level, albeit with less length. So their careers could continue but in a different way. Today those that choose surgery (especially fusion surgery), sometimes unnecessarily, they'll struggle just to play.

What were likely gonna see with Woods is a player who will be looking like himself for fits and spurts but probably not enough to sustain success. If he does it will be defying normalcy and be frankly amazing. I don't expect to see it.

 

[Killdozer]

The current world number #1, #2, #5, #6, and every player currely between #8-15, were part of the tour in 2013.. Granted Jordan and Hideki were younger. Tiger's world ranking average peak in 2013, was higher than anybody else has done since 2010. That was 4 years ago, and he was not the player in 2013 that he was in 2000 or 2005. And yet just 4 years later, his peak level would be #7. Sure thing... Hater say some silly stuff.

No, Tiger lovers just see the golf world through tiger color glasses

 

[orange79]

In golf is it so hard to tell, because of the equipment changes. One thing I do know (or think I do) is that they tried to "Tiger proof" some courses. They never tried to "Bear proof" any courses in Jack's prime.

Yeah, this.

 

[jgeorge322]

Yeah, this.

I never fully understood this argument. Tiger proofing was making the course longer. How is that a disadvantage to the longest hitter? I tend to think it is the opposite. There is probably an explanation, but as a fairly avid golfer myself, the logic gets lost on me.

 

[upperdeck]

I think this is an interesting question. I will preface this by saying generally in athletics, newer is better.
It might be that Jack's peers we're not as good as Tigers, but that Tiger was just so much better than his peers that they, in comparison, do not look as strong as Jack's best rivals. Maybe Jack was just barely beating, and sometimes losing to, pretty equal players, but Tiger was destroying even better players.
In other words, would Phil be considered one of the best of all time, but for Tiger?

In golf is it so hard to tell, because of the equipment changes. One thing I do know (or think I do) is that they tried to "Tiger proof" some courses. They never tried to "Bear proof" any courses in Jack's prime.

actually they did, but they didnt have the means or the needs back 40 years ago.. he hit the ball further than Tiger with that crappy equipment. Now that the equipment has gotten so good, many guys hit it that far.

 

[Jake]

It's a great debate and I think it's pretty close between Jack and Tiger.

Back in the day, old timers never thought Jack was Arnie's equal...and so on...

 

[Alsacs]

Jack has 18 majors and 19 2nd place finishes in majors.

I think Tiger was more dominant but Nichlaus resume makes him the GOAT.

2000 Tiger was the best season of alltime.

I think Tiger would have passed Jack but from 2009 onward doesn’t have a major. He did win the Players Championship in 2013 which is the 5th major.

 

[longtimefan]

When Tiger comes back since 2010, or has a swing change, he usually has two major obstacles.

#1. He usually sucks to start and not only 72-75 type suckage (struggles with a swing change to the point that it somehow impacts his technical ability to chip which just seems odd). and after several bad starts finally starts putting it together.
#2. Gets injured fairly quickly.

The last time he was able to get an extended run of good health he won 8 times in 15 months and was #1 in the world. Many people act like he has done nothing since 2010, but in 2013 his world ranking points were higher than anybody else has accomplished in the last 7 years. . In 2015, he struggled for a while before finally having 3 or 4 fairly decent tournaments (10th - 20th)... and then got hurt again. Last time he never even really got started.

Perhaps #1 might not be that much of an obstacle this time. But #2 is still always a major concern

If Tiger tries to out-drive all of the young lions, he's liable to injure himself again. He's got to act his age, and win with his smarts.

 

[Jake]

Bump...for those not watching. He looks very close to the old Tiger.

 

[justgold315]

He just missed a birdie putt. Jack would have made it

 

[jncuse]

His return to form has been much quicker this time than prior returns. Whether it is technical or that he actually waited the right amount of time this year, who knows.

Based on what I have seen in recent weeks, he is back to top 25 player in the world level (top 10 is at another level which I need to see real results first). I don't think he has any chance to reach the dominant level he had in 2012/2013, but he can still win tournaments from time to time and possibly become top 10 again... IF he can stay healthy long enough. Which is obviously no minor issue.

The one big difference this return vs. his prior returns is he no longer has any coach. He is trusting his skill and swing, rather than trying to redefine his swing with someone new every few seasons. Probably better for his health as well.

 

[CaptainJ]

this comeback seems different. -3 in his first competitive round in forever. Never underestimate sobriety.

I never underestimate how much some folks tend to overrate it.

 

[jncuse]

No, Tiger lovers just see the golf world through tiger color glasses

So I raise a valid counter point and I am a Tiger lover?

The comment was that Tiger at his peak. would not be a top 7 player today.
- At 2013, Tiger was not at his peak despite winning 8 tournaments in 15 months.
- In 2013, Tiger had a huge lead in the world golf rankings at #1, playing against several of the players in the top 10 now.
- 2013 was only 4 years ago (based on time of post)

All facts. So please tell me how those make your initial argument logical in any way.

 

[Alsacs]

His return to form has been much quicker this time than prior returns. Whether it is technical or that he actually waited the right amount of time this year, who knows.

Based on what I have seen in recent weeks, he is back to top 25 player in the world level (top 10 is at another level which I need to see real results first). I don't think he has any chance to reach the dominant level he had in 2012/2013, but he can still win tournaments from time to time and possibly become top 10 again... IF he can stay healthy long enough. Which is obviously no minor issue.

The one big difference this return vs. his prior returns is he no longer has any coach. He is trusting his skill and swing, rather than trying to redefine his swing with someone new every few seasons. Probably better for his health as well.

He needs his driver to improve to win a major.
That has been pretty bad for him since he came back.
His iron play has been great.

This course is good for him because he doesn’t have to use the driver that much.

 

[jncuse]

Cheering for Tiger, but as a huge supporter of the Team Canada Golf Program, I am cheering a little harder for Corey Connors.

And with that drunk (or ignorant) golf fans start cheering USA, USA, USA after Connors misses a putt.

 

[jncuse]

He needs his driver to improve to win a major.
That has been pretty bad for him since he came back.
His iron play has been great.

This course is good for him because he doesn’t have to use the driver that much.

To get pack to a top 10 player he needs to get the driver going. There have been loose drivers that have won majors from time to time. So I think he can compete for a major at any time in this point, but everything needs to go right for him to win that week... think something like when Jimmy Walker won. Unlike the past where it was automatic that he will contend.

 

[CaptainJ]

Cheering for Tiger, but as a huge supporter of the Team Canada Golf Program, I am cheering a little harder for Corey Connors.

And with that drunk (or ignorant) golf fans start cheering USA, USA, USA after Connors misses a putt.

Typical, and not that different than the repeated stereotyping and regionalism from the interlopers on here who want to make the ACC theirs when they have done nothing to earn it. Sports in our current culture tends to bring out the worst in fans more than the best.

Back to golf in general, I used to like John Daly because he was a hardened drinker. Is there anyone current like that whom I can root for?

 

[jncuse]

Typical, and not that different than the repeated stereotyping and regionalism from the interlopers on here who want to make the ACC theirs when they have done nothing to earn it. Sports in our current culture tends to bring out the worst in fans more than the best.

Back to golf in general, I used to like John Daly because he was a hardened drinker. Is there anyone current like that whom I can root for?

The world #1, Dustin Johnson has been suspended twice for failing drug tests (cocaine), and has hooked up for a while with party girl Paulina Gretzky. He was also rumoured in the past for cheating with the wives/girlfriends of fellow tour players.

But unlike John Daly he has zero charisma. John Daly had charisma.

 

[tbonezone]

we can slide this right ? golf ?

 

[CaptainJ]

we can slide this right ? golf ?

You can slide it(I have no idea what the directions mean) if you want. The whole being endowed with choice thing. I guess some of us are just more endowed than others and dont realize it.

 

[Killdozer]

So I raise a valid counter point and I am a Tiger lover?

The comment was that Tiger at his peak. would not be a top 7 player today.
- At 2013, Tiger was not at his peak despite winning 8 tournaments in 15 months.
- In 2013, Tiger had a huge lead in the world golf rankings at #1, playing against several of the players in the top 10 now.
- 2013 was only 4 years ago (based on time of post)

All facts. So please tell me how those make your initial argument logical in any way.

This post was on Dec 7th...What, new to the forum?

 

[jncuse]

This post was on Dec 7th...What, new to the forum?

What?