Time to be honest this program is a shell of what it once was

[Ghost]

When the game started I looked at GT, rather unathletic, small, etc and though this was the type of ACC team (when we joined the conference) that we should blow out of the water.

The sluggishness of our offense is just something to behold. Frank is in Edelin land of malaise starting this offense.

I would kill for Billy Edelin right now......he'd probably be our best shooter too. lol

 

[Briancuse]

We're going into our fourth straight year of bubble watching. And that's being optimistic.

I don't even think you can call this team a bubble team at this point.

 

[otisco]

Listen I’m a huge Boeheim fan and will always be cause he has done so much for this program...damn he basically is this program. But say what you want, it’s becoming more and more obvious it’s time for him to step aside. It should have happened when Hop was here to take over and to be honest the longer he stays the more damage he is doing. It honestly is painful to write that and it’s not an overreaction to one game, this season was suppose to be special and has been anything such. The year of Gillon and White was suppose to be special and we didn’t even make the tourney. I love JB but it’s just obvious the game has bypassed him.

I don’t think the regular season changes much but I hope we make the tourney and make yet another great run to overshadow all of this.

The problem is that those miraculous tourney runs helped to mask/overshadow as you say all the problems discussed in this and many other threads. The problems are so glaring and obvious, yet we have no hope that anything will be done. I hate to say this, especially for the players, but I’d rather not make the tournament to give JB and others excuses that things are okay. In a way, i’d rather miss the tournament so the nation can see how bad we really are, in hopes that there will be talk or a timeline for change. Give us fans some reason to have hope, because we have none now. Things are bad and there are no signs of improvement coming.

 

[otisco]

It may be too late to recover at that point.

The good thing about college basketball, as opposed to college football, is that one or two recruiting classes can turn things around. We just need to get the right coaches in place to make it happen.

 

[AZOrange]

Pitt may beat SU. Twice. Capel has turned around that program in one year.

He has? Pitts horrible. Have you seen them?

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

The problem is that those miraculous tourney runs helped to mask/overshadow as you say all the problems discussed in this and many other threads. The problems are so glaring and obvious, yet we have no hope that anything will be done. I hate to say this, especially for the players, but I’d rather not make the tournament to give JB and others excuses that things are okay. In a way, i’d rather miss the tournament so the nation can see how bad we really are, in hopes that there will be talk or a timeline for change. Give us fans some reason to have hope, because we have none now. Things are bad and there are no signs of improvement coming.

What problems?

We got what we were all clamoring for our best players (who beat Michigan St to make a sweet 16 and almost took down Duke) to return and not bolt for the NBA.

They regressed.

Would we be better if both had left for the NBA? At least they are still here and there is plenty of season left.

We have our issues but its a roster full of good players capable of playing great D and beating top teams. Sorry I don't have an answer for why shots are falling.

Lets see how our guys do on the road vs a team with 3 top 5 picks before we throw ourselves off cliffs and demand JB retire.

 

[otisco]

What problems?

We got what we were all clamoring for our best players (who beat Michigan St to make a sweet 16 and almost took down Duke) to return and not bolt for the NBA.

They regressed.

Would we be better if both had left for the NBA? At least they are still here and there is plenty of season left.

We have our issues but its a roster full of good players capable of playing great D and beating top teams. Sorry I don't have an answer for why shots are falling.

Lets see how our guys do on the road vs a team with 3 top 5 picks before we throw ourselves off cliffs and demand JB retire.

You don’t agree that we have severe problems on offense and have for several years now? With developing players and getting consistent production from the center and forward positions? Nobody is overreacting to one bad loss to GA Tech. The views in this thread stem from years now of mediocre play, not just one game or one year. I wish I was as hopeful as you that this team can turn it around, but history says otherwise. We have become a permanent bubble team. That’s not Syracuse basketball.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

You don’t agree that we have severe problems on offense and have for several years now? With developing players and getting consistent production from the center and forward positions? Nobody is overreacting to one bad loss to GA Tech. The views in this thread stem from years now of mediocre play, not just one game or one year. I wish I was as hopeful as you that this team can turn it around, but history says otherwise. We have become a permanent bubble team. That’s not Syracuse basketball.

We are a .500 team in the toughest league by far where 2/3 of teams get tournament bids.

Regular season we are not one of the top 3/4 ACC teams but in terms of tournament success we have been.

Our recruiting has also dipped a little (consider the punk who isn't playing basketball this year.)

Just not buying that we have fallen that far. A year ago people were whining that everyone good left early and we never had continuity like Villanova or UNC. Well we got our wish this year that certainly isn't the problem.

Brissett and Battle got to hit shots if they do we are a really good team. Our D is good if we are playing with a big lead I think we are a really good team (which we haven't done much this year.) If our PG position stops sucking and Frankie gets healthy and the centers are net positives we are a really good team.

Games like yesterday suck but I don't think the sky is falling or we've 'fallen' that far or are a 'shell of ourselves.'

 

[Col. Bleep]

Have to give Boeheim credit for something.

Early on he did issue a warning.
He said last year's team only played well for a couple of weeks at the end of the season.
And I think many -myself included - let those words slide.

We got excited by the tourney run and thought these guys finally had it figured out.
With Battle back and the new additions there were high hopes.
The operative word being "were."

The coach was right...it looks like they just got hot for two weeks.
Unfortunately, no one has made any real adjustments.

 

[SUFan44]

Have to give Boeheim credit for something.

Early on he did issue a warning.
He said last year's team only played well for a couple of weeks at the end of the season.
And I think many -myself included - let those words slide.

We got excited by the tourney run and thought these guys finally had it figured out.
With Battle back and the new additions there were high hopes.
The operative word being "were."

The coach was right...it looks like they just got hot for two weeks.
Unfortunately, no one has made any real adjustments.

Who's fault is it that the team wasn't very good last year and it isn't very good this year, outside of a two-week stretch?

The guys that we have on this team aren't to the level of Duke in terms of recruiting but it is certainly good enough to beat Old Dominion, Georgia Tech and UConn.

 

[otisco]

were."

We are a .500 team in the toughest league by far where 2/3 of teams get tournament bids.

Regular season we are not one of the top 3/4 ACC teams but in terms of tournament success we have been.

Our recruiting has also dipped a little (consider the punk who isn't playing basketball this year.)

Just not buying that we have fallen that far. A year ago people were whining that everyone good left early and we never had continuity like Villanova or UNC. Well we got our wish this year that certainly isn't the problem.

Brissett and Battle got to hit shots if they do we are a really good team. Our D is good if we are playing with a big lead I think we are a really good team (which we haven't done much this year.) If our PG position stops sucking and Frankie gets healthy and the centers are net positives we are a really good team.

Games like yesterday suck but I don't think the sky is falling or we've 'fallen' that far or are a 'shell of ourselves.'

Wow, I’ll tell ya man, I wish I shared your optimism. How do you explain being a bubble team for the last five years, soon to be sixth? There are systemic problems that are not being addressed.

 

[73CAV]

Pardon an outsider for interjecting here, but... I am of the opinion that a major factor has gone untouched. I would agree with those that question the talent that Syracuse is putting on the court this year, but no one has mentioned what the team might look like if those who left early had remained. In my opinion, premature or unanticipated attrition is the major problem. And it is not Syracuse's alone. Wake, Miami, GT, BC, ND, and UNC are all suffering because of it. If there is one thing that differentiates UVa from Syracuse, IMO, it is continuity. Most of UVa's attrition has been due to transfers seeking PT; not starters looking to be drafted. (The most damaging departure was Austin Nichols, in 2016/17, and he was dismissed after playing one game.). In addition, three of Virginia's current starters were redshirts. No one started upon arrival. Among other things, Salt's presumed replacement is redshirting this year. I think Syracuse has a few players starting that should have been quality depth being developed . I don't believe that true frosh are the answer. Sometimes, they do produce, but it is more rare for that to happen than most fans recognize. Experience and continuity are the key, IMO, and I think that those are missing elements at Syracuse.

 

[supp]

Have to give Boeheim credit for something.

Early on he did issue a warning.
He said last year's team only played well for a couple of weeks at the end of the season.
And I think many -myself included - let those words slide.

We got excited by the tourney run and thought these guys finally had it figured out.
With Battle back and the new additions there were high hopes.
The operative word being "were."

The coach was right...it looks like they just got hot for two weeks.
Unfortunately, no one has made any real adjustments.

But before that he was blowing smoke up our butts.

 

[tbonezone]

when you return 5 starters and add some quality freshmen one would expect a step forward.

 

[73CAV]

when you return 5 starters and add some quality freshmen one would expect a step forward.

But where would Syracuse be with Richardson, Lydon, Moyer, & Thompson?

 

[PoppyHart]

But where would Syracuse be with Richardson, Lydon, Moyer, & Thompson?

They'd be without Dolezaj for certain as he was not on the radar until Lyndon left. There likely would not been any interest in Hughes for similar reasons. Thompson arguably is addition by subtraction.

One thing is for certain: JB would not be throwing a 13 man rotation at opponents. He forgot how to count to 9 until Buddy came along.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Wow, I’ll tell ya man, I wish I shared your optimism. How do you explain being a bubble team for the last five years, soon to be sixth? There are systemic problems that are not being addressed.

I just don't equate being .500 in the ACC with sucking. This team should be better but even so its the same guys as last year maybe they have 1 less loss and are 11-4 and not 10-5 but this group isn't going 25-0. Maybe if we had our Burger Boy to push Brissett and Battle we'd have that kind of year but hes getting a million bucks to not play basketball. Of the 8-9 teams that get in from the ACC about 5 of them spend a good portion of the year on the 'bubble' even if they aren't on it Selection Sunday.

UNC who is better than us got drilled worse at home by Ville who aren't much better than GT. We are 4th in the ACC at 2-1. We lose a game and the 2 conference wins just go right out the window.

Even if we lose tomorrow I think we beat Pitt and Miami and are sitting at 4-2.

Then we have a 3 game roadie to VT, BC, and Pitt. 2-1 gets us at 6-3.

I think we enter the FSU game at least 5-4 in ACC play.

 

[orangecuse]

I just don't equate being .500 in the ACC with sucking. This team should be better but even so its the same guys as last year maybe they have 1 less loss and are 11-4 and not 10-5 but this group isn't going 25-0. Maybe if we had our Burger Boy to push Brissett and Battle we'd have that kind of year but hes getting a million bucks to not play basketball. Of the 8-9 teams that get in from the ACC about 5 of them spend a good portion of the year on the 'bubble' even if they aren't on it Selection Sunday.

UNC who is better than us got drilled worse at home by Ville who aren't much better than GT. We are 4th in the ACC at 2-1. We lose a game and the 2 conference wins just go right out the window.

Even if we lose tomorrow I think we beat Pitt and Miami and are sitting at 4-2.

Then we have a 3 game roadie to VT, BC, and Pitt. 2-1 gets us at 6-3.

I think we enter the FSU game at least 5-4 in ACC play.

You're correct that it's not sucking, but it is the quintessential definition of what we have become since being a member of the ACC, and that's mediocre. We are a middling, mediocre basketball program in the ACC, nothing more, nothing less. With SU's history, and elevated Big East success, etc., it's very tough to adjust/accept as fans that indeed mediocrity is who we are...our new normal.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

You're correct that it's not sucking, but it is the quintessential definition of what we have become since being a member of the ACC, and that's mediocre. We are a middling, mediocre basketball program in the ACC, nothing more, nothing less. With SU's history, and elevated Big East success, etc., it's very tough to adjust/accept as fans that indeed mediocrity is who we are...our new normal.

Since we joined only UNC and Duke have more tournament wins than us. Noone else is remotely close.

 

[skurey]

Since we joined only UNC and Duke have more tournament wins than us. Noone else is remotely close.

Now do ACC wins

 

[Ghost]

Since we joined only UNC and Duke have more tournament wins than us. Noone else is remotely close.

This makes me happy. I just feel like as we start to miss the tourney by falling on the wrong side of the bubble, other teams will catch up. We were already super close to never getting the chance to pick up a lot of those wins.

I think we'll always be problematic in the tourney because we have a novelty defense that teams don't prepare well for if they have limited experience against it. That's sort of a gimmicky mid-major thing though - we just have better players than mid-majors so we can advance a bit more I guess. I don't know. We're in a scary position.....

 

[orangecuse]

Since we joined only UNC and Duke have more tournament wins than us. Noone else is remotely close.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Now do ACC wins

Noone outside of a select few rabid CBB fanbases gives a about the sport prior to March.

The Dance is all that counts.

 

[AlaskaSU]

And yet we seem to go to the Sweet Sixteen and Final Four more often than ANY chapter of our programs history. I cant stand negative "fans" like you. I'm not stupid, I can see a talent difference between the Derek Coleman era and now, but as far as results go in all that matters, you couldnt be further off. Sit still little man, theyll rally and this thread will become another embarrassment for you. Buddy will become a nice overall player for us and guys like you who bashed Rautins will be proven wrong by Coach Boeheim yet again. Will we be the 32-3 type team you speak of? Probably not but I'll take the type of success in March that we've had in the last 10 years. Was today painful...oh yes...but listening to fans like you is my biggest pain. This predictable misguided, flat out false rant is so old and so dull it ALMOST doesn't bother me anymore. Now step aside while the real FANS enjoy watching OUR team get better, gel & become yet another beast in March.

Maybe we will get to the final 4...in the NIT.

 

[two3zone]

Goes to Cornell for a grad year.

Better chance we see Jimmy transfer here and play his 5th year with his senior brother.