two3zone
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That is a solid team. A lot of those guys were teetering just past the top 50 though. If you move it to 75 you may not be able to put a team on the floor.
To those that say recruiting has not fallen off...
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That is a solid team. A lot of those guys were teetering just past the top 50 though. If you move it to 75 you may not be able to put a team on the floor.
A couple of thoughts...
I think everyone agrees recruiting has fallen off but I think there are two camp as to why...
camp A blames sanctions and camp B blames pace of play and our murky coaching situation and the fact that our coach is stubborn.
My opinion is largely with camp B. I do think next year's class smells different... I just hope that JG3 doesn't lose his magic shooting touch and Goodine doesn't forget how to dribble before they get here and Guerrier doesn't forget how to score.
I think everyone agrees recruiting has fallen off but I think there are two camp as to why...
camp A blames sanctions and camp B blames pace of play and our murky coaching situation and the fact that our coach is stubborn.
My opinion is largely with camp B. I do think next year's class smells different... I just hope that JG3 doesn't lose his magic shooting touch and Goodine doesn't forget how to dribble before they get here and Guerrier doesn't forget how to score.
Sgt Cuse
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Yes, way too much use of the 3 second look as evidence to proof some point. And I forgot about that classic Battle analysis.
I don't understand the logic behind the J Carey transferring. How would that help Carey? J Carey is still in line to be SU's starting point guard next year - FH and TB will be gone. Unless JC feels he isn't starting P5 material he won't get a better chance, nor as quickly than if he just stayed here.
And if you don't blame Carey for transferring then I guess we all know whose fault it is (because you gotta blame someone). If Carey comes back is any credit given? JB did after all play JC after JC's combined 4 minute epically bad performance (FSU + BC debacles). I thought Carey did better against NcSt, hope he can get some time tonight and improve and develop.
chugg21
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The camp A people confuse me a bit. Is the thought that now that the sanctions are over, everything is going to return to normal from here on out and we are going to return to being a top 15 program year in and year out? Not sure how anything points towards that being the case other than that's just the way that it was 5+ years ago.
General Joe
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I love when people skip over 10 main points and focus on a minor observation. Back to the topic of our recruiting that has fallen off.
OrangeDW
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Shrug. It’s fair game to be replied to.
“Back to the topic...”, lol. It’ll get there on its own momentum.
General Joe
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Its all good. No offense
General Joe
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Thats sunny point number 2. Just look at our bigs
Sgt Cuse
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Some points towards improvement:
This years team is better than last years team.
Recruiting of foundation/program players has improved- Buddy/JG3
Your expectation of a top 15 program year in and year out is a tough one.
Yeah tend to agree... our program is probably outside the top 25 if you look at regular season performance since 25-0 or whatever it is. Given that this year was the one circled on the calendar given all the returning talent not sure that I agree that we are trending up. My only hope is that the dudes we are bringing in are basketball players and not just athletes meaning that we can actually play a reasonably attractive style. My big fear is that we are losing a ton of experience with Battle and Howard and that will be hard to replace.
Then there are the systemic issues... every good coach in the ACC knows how to get shots against our zone and our offensive strategy is very dependent on having a player who can get his own shot. I don't see a player on the roster next year who can get their own shot without an offense that can generate it for them unless Guerrier can follow the tradition of Syracuse 3's who we run our offense through. That's a LOT to put on a freshman.
Fly Rodder
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Player development or player evaluation. I've been told that Syracuse doesn't recruit based on ranking, so it doesn't do anyone any good to say that these kids were ranked and received offers so it's not possible that SU missed on their evaluation. If we're giving them credit on finding talented unranked guys, then they get dinged when a recruit, who is "our guy," flames out spectacularly.
Bazely ... meh ... hard to chalk that up as any kind of win. He was a head case from the start and only committed to SU because of Griffin ... and then he promptly did something that a flighty head case would do.
chugg21
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I think expecting top 15 from a program with top 10 resources isn't too unreasonable. We finished every year between 2008 and 2014 ranked in the top 16 of the final AP poll. Haven't managed to be in the top 25 in any year since. From what I can tell we had never been worse than an 8 seed in the tournament ever before and will now have done it 3 times in the past 4 years.
It's debatable if this years team is better as they will likely end up with a very similar record. 6-6 the rest of the way would get them to the same 23-14 record which is certainly possible though I have a way easier time seeing where the 6 losses will come from then where 6 more wins will. The fact that we can even debate which is better when we returned every meaningful player and added high expectation pieces and ended up with the same result is horrific. Last years team barely had 6 healthy guys for a majority of the season and will likely end up with more wins than the same team brought back with another year of experience plus Hughes, Jalen and Buddy added to it.
jdubs30
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Agree. I used 50 because that’s what OP had said
SUFan44
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Why is that an unrealistic expectation?
Name 15 programs that should be better on a year-to-year basis... please.
Sgt Cuse
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Because you said "top 15 year in and year out", which means that you do not slip outside the top 15 any year. Top 10 programs will slip outside the top 15 in a given year - teams like KY, Indiana, Lville, and many others.
I believe SU to be a top 15 program. And I think it will be in the top 15 poll wise before JB retires. As I said, I see signs of the program making its way back.
SUFan44
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You're putting words in my mouth -- I never said that. I asked you to name 15 schools that should be ahead of us, year in and year out.
We haven't even sniffed Top 15 in 5 years, outside of the early season stretch this year which was all based on the hype created from last year.
SUOrangeSU
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Some of the stuff that is being said here is RIDICULOUS...We've probably put more bodies in the NBA that are non 5 star players than any other program in the last 10 years I bet...We got Tyler London who was a fridge top 100 player into the nba after two years...Mal Mal a top 40 guy, 1 st round and so on and so on...JB can't be held responsible for how they play and do in the nba but damn, he gets these guys there at least
RF2044
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You're leaving out camp C -- which recognizes that there is no one root cause, that the status quo is based upon a numerous factors affecting the program simultaneously, and who point out that discussions that leave out key issues debating one cause vs. another miss the bigger picture.
Sgt Cuse
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Please stop with the "year in and year out". I already said I think SU is a top 15 program.
Also, Nov 30th 2016 14th.
KevMonstah
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I'd point out ... it's not just recruit ranking that's a factor. To wit, Butler made back-to-back title game
appearances with classes you would not remotely call nationally ranked. But, their coaching and program
made them into a pretty good team.
I think an issue with SU is that they'd like to pull in the top tier talents who basically have NBA stars in
their eyes when they get to Cuse, but the program itself with its zone D pretty much requires guys to
stay and develop, and I don't think JB and staff have ever quite figured out how to make that work to
the satisfaction of some/many/most/all.
That said, that list of rankings from the OP is depressing. I much prefer watching them with more
talented kids.
Kev
appearances with classes you would not remotely call nationally ranked. But, their coaching and program
made them into a pretty good team.
I think an issue with SU is that they'd like to pull in the top tier talents who basically have NBA stars in
their eyes when they get to Cuse, but the program itself with its zone D pretty much requires guys to
stay and develop, and I don't think JB and staff have ever quite figured out how to make that work to
the satisfaction of some/many/most/all.
That said, that list of rankings from the OP is depressing. I much prefer watching them with more
talented kids.
Kev
two3zone
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I'm curious of these signs.
two3zone
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jmcclure33
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He was ranked #50 on TOS and #34 on that site’s composite ranking. So I believe top 40 is how you would describe that.
Sgt Cuse
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As I've said earlier:
1. This years team is better than last years. That's improvement.
2. IMO, the program player recruiting is back and good. Eli/Buddy/JG3 are the type of building block players that have been missed. I feel it is better.
3. Succession layering of players is back. For a couple of recent years SU was creating practically wholesale new teams each season. Now SU is getting back to having a lot of experienced players. This year started with experience. Next year I anticipate a lot of experienced players again - OB/Marek/Eli and then JC/Buddy. I think getting back to experienced returners is a good system and an encouraging sign.
4. Get a win tonight and this year is not a bubble year. Currently approx. 8 seed with an Lville win and the convo gets more towards seed than bubble. It would be an improvement over the last couple of years and heading in the right direction.
There are positives out there of the program making its way back.
