Tourney Selection Show Discussion

[djorange1989]

Glad NC State made it over Clemson, that gives us one win over a tourney team this season! Yes!!

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I don’t follow cbb enough, but I am convinced Duke is either losing round 1 or making the Final Four.

Yes

 

[Orangefan1]

NIT?

 

[OrangeDW]

NIT?

Spoiler: we’re out

 

[Day2]

Here's the problem when you focus to much on head to head to rank teams. It potentially causes circular issues that don't get the results you want.

Say we put Clemson over NC St because of head to head, which is fair if they were the only 2 teams in the discussion. Now let's compare Clemson to teams outside the ACC.

Oklahoma St had a better overall resume than Clemson
NC St arguably had a better overall resume than Oklahoma St

So who do we pick now to get in?
Do we eliminate both Clemson and NC St, and let Oklahoma St in?

I wouldn’t say OSU had a better resume than Clemson. It’s all driven by NET, which I feel is flawed. (And everything that preceded NET was flawed, don’t get me wrong.) Clemson could go 8-10 in the Big 12. Would OSU finish third in the ACC? Maybe?

Instead of relying on something like NET as a baseline, the committee should have people analyzing teams and games all year. Everything should be taken into consideration, including injuries and matchup history. It’s not like the NCAA can’t afford it.

 

[jncuse]

Here’s the thing, though: All four of those bad losses were on the road and two were in conference play. Another was against their in-state rival. While there’s no excuse for losing to Loyola, those other games were not accurately depicted by NET.

Wait, you are trying to say the NET is not accurately depicting Louisville as a Q4 team?
They are arguably the worst P5 team in the last 10 years.

You can't sugar coat that loss by saying its a road conference game. Louisville was terrible.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Tough draw for Colgate. Texas looks like the best team right now.

 

[Day2]

That goes to show how bad those losses were. Road Q4 losses? Those teams need to be HORRIBLE to even qualify as Q4. NC State and Clemson are pretty equally mediocre honestly.

That would be Loyola and Louisville. There’s no excuse for Loyola. Clemson did split with Louisville.

 

[Day2]

Wait, you are trying to say the NET is not accurately depicting Louisville as a Q4 team?
They are arguably the worst P5 team in the last 10 years.

You can't sugar coat that loss by saying its a road conference game. Louisville was terrible.

They split with Louisville. It’s a conference road loss.

 

[Orangezoo]

UConn-Iona needs to be the first game of the day Friday

Gotta figure that one is primetime

 

[Orangezoo]

They split with Louisville. It’s a conference road loss.

Still a putrid Q4 loss. Ville is no different than any low major bottom feeder. Being the fact it's in conference is irrelevant.

 

[jncuse]

Still a putrid Q4 loss. Ville is no different than any low major bottom feeder. Being the fact it's in conference is irrelevant.

they split with them, by beating them at home.
So it's all good.

 

[kirbivore]

When’s the NIT selection show?

On a twitch stream

 

[kirbivore]

Wait, you are trying to say the NET is not accurately depicting Louisville as a Q4 team?
They are arguably the worst P5 team in the last 10 years.

You can't sugar coat that loss by saying its a road conference game. Louisville was terrible.

Reverse that game and take away the damage points. Clemson get in?

 

[UpstateSM]

FAU/Memphis first round is such BS. It is like Murray St/San Fran last season.

They purposely put non-P6s together whenever they can.

 

[Day2]

Still a putrid Q4 loss. Ville is no different than any low major bottom feeder. Being the fact it's in conference is irrelevant.

It should be relevant.

 

[jncuse]

I wouldn’t say OSU had a better resume than Clemson. It’s all driven by NET, which I feel is flawed. (And everything that preceded NET was flawed, don’t get me wrong.) Clemson could go 8-10 in the Big 12. Would OSU finish third in the ACC? Maybe?

Instead of relying on something like NET as a baseline, the committee should have people analyzing teams and games all year. Everything should be taken into consideration, including injuries and matchup history. It’s not like the NCAA can’t afford it.

So you would want somebody to go watch ACC/B12/B10/BE teams play conference matchups against each other in January or February, to determine how good the ACC is compared to those other conferences.

Totally ignore the observable data that shows one is way better than the other, and go with some dude making subjective views.

Big 12 was 107-22 OOC
ACC was 107-52 OOC.
That's 30 more losses with the same number of wins.

In OOC, Big 12 had 16 Q1 Wins, 30 Q1+Q2 wins, 2 bad losses
In OOC, ACC despite having 5 more teams had 7 Q1 Wins, 21 Q1+Q2 wins, and 18 bad losses.
As noted elsewhere take out Louisville and Florida St it is still 11 bad losses.

I'd rather a system that gives conferences a chance to prove who is the best on the floor, and rewards W's and L's, rather than flying some chump go watch different conference games in February and state "my eyes think these teams / leagues are nearly equal".

The solution for the ACC is simple. it's not the system - its to ******* play better.

 

[Madbiker]

Putting Duke on the 5 line, instead of the 4 line, took them out of Greensboro.

The committee did not give a **** about the blue bloods this year and their typical small bracketing advantages they tend to get.

How did Kentucky get a 6 with 11 losses? And Mich St/Izzo gets a 7 with 12 losses. BS.

 

[Day2]

So you would want somebody to go watch ACC/B12/B10/BE teams play conference matchups against each other in January or February, to determine how good the ACC is compared to those conferences.

Totally ignore the observable data that shows one is way better than the other, and go with some dude making subjective views.

Big 12 was 107-22 OOC
ACC was 107-52 OOC.
That's 30 more losses with the same number of wins.

In OOC, Big 12 had 16 Q1 Wins, 30 Q1+Q2 wins, 2 bad losses
In OOC, ACC despite having 5 more teams had 7 Q1 Wins, 21 Q1+Q2 wins, and 18 bad losses.
As noted elsewhere take out Louisville and Florida St it is still 11 bad losses.

I'd rather a system that gives conferences a chance to prove who is the best on the floor, and rewards W's and L's, rather than flying some chump go watch different conference games in February and state "my eyes think these teams / leagues are nearly equal".

The solution for the ACC is simple. it's not the system - its to ******* play better.

Did I say the ACC is better than the Big 12?

 

[Jzsshuttles]

All Q1 losses.
They also had 11 Q1 wins.

Big12 was the best conference this year.

Clearly a numbers guy

 

[jncuse]

How did Kentucky get a 6 with 11 losses? And Mich St/Izzo gets a 7 with 12 losses. BS.

Because the SEC and the B10 were clearly the 2nd and 3rd best conferences in America based on how they did OOC. So it created a bunch of additional Q1 games for teams in those conferences -- W's and L's.

Based on Q1 and Q2 wins those teams were seeded on the line they were expected to be on.

 

[jncuse]

Did I say the ACC is better than the Big 12?

No but you were suggesting they are not that far apart and that the NET was jobbing the ACC.

 

[JeremyCuse]

The meltdown on the RU order is epic. The one dude saying RU getting snubbed is a major baf look for the conference is the funniest line I've heard in months. RU fans never fail.

 

[jncuse]

FAU/Memphis first round is such BS. It is like Murray St/San Fran last season.

They purposely put non-P6s together whenever they can.

At this point its pretty clear.

I had them as the two non power conference teams on the 8/9 line... I had them both on the 9.
I was actually going to make the change to have them play each other, as that is what they always predictably do. Just ran out of time.

In the past with the complex bracketing rules (conference mates could only meet in the elite 8) sometimes these matchups just happened because it was the only bracket fit... there was also typically a few more non P6 teams on the 8/9 line.

But this year there was only 2 non P6 schools on the 8/9 line. It was extremely easy to have them to avoid each other -- but also extremely easy to have them face each other because of the eased bracketing rules.

 

[Day2]

No but you were suggesting they are not that far apart and that the NET was jobbing the ACC.

I never said anything close to that. I’ve got the Oscars to watch. Feel free to continue debating with whatever fake arguments you want to assign to me.