Transfers & Offensive Line

[721Comstock]

We're putting the whole OL in bubble wrap until Sept 4.

That way, there's zero chance of a torn ACL or Achilles, or someone falling down the steps and breaking a foot.

You forgot - keep them all away from Ed Hendrix.

 

[RF2044]

The OL has been poor for a lot longer than the last two years. I will be the first to acknowledge that I was wrong about the OL if there is substantial improvement next year. Just don’t see it happening without the things I mentioned occurring.

I'm not sure that there's been a more vocal critic of SU's OL play over the years than me. So I agree 100% that it is typically not an area of strength for our team.

Quality , consistent OL play is predicated upon experience and depth. Both of those factors have been in short supply these past two seasons, which is why this unit's performance has plummeted like a stone.

Next year, there doesn't have to be a "magical" transformation. Get some guys healthy, and all of the sudden you've got BOTH experience and depth. That doesn't mean that there aren't still issues to sort out [i.e., who starts at C?], but it also doesn't mean that we won't see a substantial jump in performance just as a function of guys getting healthy, and being able to field an actual two-deep with guys who can play.

We had 6 guards get injured and miss a substantial portion of the season this year, including several over the first month+ of the season. SIX. At one position. So pardon me for saying the "next man up" chest pounding rings hollow.

 

[OrangePA]

One would assume that Dino and staff would be searching the transfer portal for offensive line help, including immediately reaching out to players they previously recruited. One would further assume that the staff has someone monitoring the transfer portal 24/7 and or has set up the proper alerts from the portal for immediate notification of new entries.

However, this doesn’t seem to be the case. There has been no contact with Johnny Jordan (3-year starting center, HM all-Big Ten, transferring from Maryland) or his former teammate Marcus Minor.

This is dereliction of duty. I am not saying that the staff must successfully recruit these kids to Syracuse, but to not even reach out to them is bad.

Peace

Hopefully the staff reads this Board!

 

[Killdozer]

With what is currently projected to be on the roster this will clearly be the best ol since 2012

You can't use "projected" and "clearly" in the same sentence and make it a fact.

 

[Killdozer]

If the OL gets healthy -- which is really the primary reason by a wide margin for the subpar play the last two years, and it isn't even close -- and performs well next year, will certain posters admit that they are focused on symptoms of the problem, instead of the actual problem?

It seems the OL injuries are an abundance every year. Maybe that is because the players are just not that good. They seem to get steamrolled in games, get hurt and out for season. Been happening that way since 2012.

 

[kcsu]

The training emphasis seems to be focused on running between plays so we can go fast. Unfortunately most of our guys are picking themselves off the turf after having been manhandled. Our Oline has been unbelievably soft. We lack physicality. Its a combination of training, scheme, and coaching. Hopefully Cav pulls it together next year.

 

[TheCusian]

Not upset or stressed just pointing out facts. Unlike some posters here I’m hoping for changes be made now instead of risking another losing season because of the OL. I do not believe the current OL players will make sufficient strides to make the team consistently good or occasionally great.

We hired Cav before the 2019 season. A bunch of guys got hurt and played out of position. The OL was bad, but seemed to improve as guys got healthy. We thought “2020 might be better, let’s give it a shot with Cav again.” And 2020 happened. I have no idea how to rate the job he’s done. Obviously the line was bad again.

So what’s the issue? Injuries? Cav? Recruiting? All of it?

Whats the quick fix?

 

[UpstateSM]

Getting mad that the staff isn’t (as far as we know) reaching out to kids in the portal is hilarious, even for the high standards I hold this board to

 

[orangepassion]

I wonder what kind of training program Edinger has set up for the OL. Not only are they always hurt, they were often manhandled.

The amazing thing is we had no OL injuries during the season, only during the offseason. Not sure what that says.

 

[AngryOtto]

The amazing thing is we had no OL injuries during the season, only during the offseason. Not sure what that says.

P Davis was hurt during the season

 

[orangepassion]

P Davis was hurt during the season

Was he? Don't recall him touching the field this year.

 

[sufandu]

The amazing thing is we had no OL injuries during the season, only during the offseason. Not sure what that says.

The opening day starters may not have missed any games but it was clear Servais was injured at one point. If we had a decent back up, he probably misses some time.

 

[RF2044]

It seems the OL injuries are an abundance every year. Maybe that is because the players are just not that good. They seem to get steamrolled in games, get hurt and out for season. Been happening that way since 2012.

That seems like a massive leap of logic to me. I can get behind the notion that our personnel aren't "good enough," but that doesn't extend to the absurd injury situation we've experienced the last two years -- and in particular, this year.

Dino and staff have upgraded the size / speed / athleticism quotient at most positional units on this team -- the lone exception being OL. And that is attributable to two factors, IMO. First, we've had a high volume of medical disqualifications. Second, depth has been SIGNIFICANTLY compromised these past two years by key injuries. I don't worry about going back to 2012, because I'm not saddling Dino with what occurred under Shafer.

This is a year when we should have been able to rely upon upperclassmen like O'Sullivan, Heckel, and Dakota Davis -- and those guys just weren't available. When you factor in Servais having to gut out substantial injuries just to help the team -- which belies some of the nonsense shade sent his way earlier in this thread -- and it was a dire situation.

OL has never, ever, been a strong suit of Syracuse recruiting. We need to get over the hump. I'm pleased that the staff has brought in some very good prospects these past two recruiting classes. But there is no magic bullet; the "quick fix" is to get what we have healthy, to benefit from having better depth than what we've had the past two years, and to have both of those factors parlay into improved performance this year. Which buys the young prospects in the pipeline time to learn the system, mature physically, and position themselves to improve the unit long term.

 

[RF2044]

The opening day starters may not have missed any games but it was clear Servais was injured at one point. If we had a decent back up, he probably misses some time.

144% true. Which is why the massive injury issue -- especially for guys like Red, Froumy, etc. who the staff felt like could contribute this year -- had an enormous impact.

Let's just look ahead to our personnel next year. Bleich [Florida transfer] will be healthy / eligible. Dakota Davis, who missed 3/4 of the season and was hobbled for the remaining 1/4, should bookend at Guard. Does Servais stay at C or RT? Does Vet stay at C, does he shift back to tackle, or what? TBD on both accounts, but both questions will help determine the composition of next year's first team unit. Bergeron is an NFL prospect, so we're set there. Even if these are the 5 we roll out with, it is reasonable to expect that OL will improve. That would be an experienced starting 5, all of whom would have lots of PT / starts under their belts.

Then, you factor in a guy like Tisdale who started most of this year is now in the second unit [again, just projecting -- maybe he makes a push and challenges for a starting role]. The staff was very excited about BOTH Red and Froumy contributing THIS year, only to have that derailed by injury. Ialoa [sp?] got a dose of PT this year. That's 9 guys. Nearly a full two-deep, with 8 of those 9 having seen a lot of PT.

Again, no magic quick fixes, but having 9 guys with some positional versatility is a good formula, after the absurd injury depletions we've faced the past two seasons.

This year, we basically played 6-7 OL most of the year, and at least two of them were hurt and / or missed substantial time due to injuries.

 

[IthacaMatt]

With what is currently projected to be on the roster this will clearly be the best ol since 2012

This is a courageous statement. Yes, on paper this OL group looks good.
But this group gave up 88 sacks the last 2 years.
That's 4 every single game. For two years.

As I said many times, before we hope for "the best" or "bowl or bust", let's just be stinking competent, huh?
Let's have a few 100 yard rushers. Let's have some games where the QB is not running for his life.
Because all those guys with all that experience have basically been terrible for 2 years now.
We are not the Dallas Cowboys. We can't just flip a switch and be excellent. Let's just hope for "good".

 

[IthacaMatt]

We hired Cav before the 2019 season. A bunch of guys got hurt and played out of position. The OL was bad, but seemed to improve as guys got healthy. We thought “2020 might be better, let’s give it a shot with Cav again.” And 2020 happened. I have no idea how to rate the job he’s done. Obviously the line was bad again.

So what’s the issue? Injuries? Cav? Recruiting? All of it?

Whats the quick fix?

We recruited a ton of linemen, on both sides of the ball.
It takes a year or two for young linemen, but we should have enough guys to have a functional line and some reasonable depth this year. If we don't, I mean, how does Cavanaugh keep his job.

 

[BANYC]

What is the story with Qadir White?

Has he been hurt?

Is it weight and strength and conditioning?

is it technique and playbook issues?

 

[OmahaCuse]

I think having rhino at FB is also a huge help as we saw at nd

 

[SUbear]

in other words you cant.

Tell you what, you tell me who is going to give us this upgrade and depth, bet you can not. I hope we get that, but my opinion is I have seen no evidence to convince me of it. Go ahead explain it to me where this upgrade is coming from, I will listen with bated breath for your words of wisdom. Expect me to keep your response on file though should you be wrong.

 

[sufandu]

What is the story with Qadir White?

Has he been hurt?

Is it weight and strength and conditioning?

is it technique and playbook issues?

I heard there is a medical condition. Probably will never play.

 

[GoSU96]

That sounds like a broad statement and a casual observation. What's the evidence for that?

You're kidding, right? I've laid out the details behind that numerous times in the last couple of weeks.

Fact is that based on what we know there are six players returning with starting experience.

There are 11 players that I see that make the two deep. Of those 11, 10 will have been in the program 3 or more years, Ilaoa being the only second year player, all but one 6-4 or taller, 8 or 11 300 lbs or greater. All are three star recruits.

One potential starting unit is Bergeron 6-4, 312, 2 yr starter LT, Bleich 6-6 332 1 yr starter LG, Froumy 6-6 307 C, DDavis, 6-5 327 2 yr Starter, Servais 6-6 309 4 yr starter RT. That would easily be the biggest OL SU has ever fielded and most experienced since 2012.

There would be two guys with starting experience on the second string in Vetterollo and Tisdale and well regarded depth from Ilaoa, Red, and Petry if those five players don't win spots as starters. 5th year guy PDavis would be the 11th if he comes back.

 

[GoSU96]

Tell you what, you tell me who is going to give us this upgrade and depth, bet you can not. I hope we get that, but my opinion is I have seen no evidence to convince me of it. Go ahead explain it to me where this upgrade is coming from, I will listen with bated breath for your words of wisdom. Expect me to keep your response on file though should you be wrong.

That's not what you said. You said you KNOW that a FEW guys would never play. My simple question is that if you KNOW that, name the few.

My FACT based argument is that with the 18 OL on the roster SU's OL, with a solid full cycle of spring ball and strength and conditioning, with normal health, will be substantially better than anytime since 2012.

The unit has been short handed and young because of a significant number of career ending injuries to guys that were expected to be starters, that has forced freshmen and redshirt freshmen and juco transfers into starting roles with little to know development time. Those players are now 3rd year players and above. Ilaoa is the only guy on the "two deep" that is a second year player, and he had his own baptism by fire last year and held his own.

Six returning guys have starting experience. I can easily see two returning starters being on second unit, when has that ever happened here. The two deep are all legit sized P5 OL.

Maybe the biggest benefit is that the offense will be able to practice and play again with pace. I THINK (I don't KNOW) that a huge problem last year was the inability to get reps in. There weren't enough guys available to put two full units either running drills concurrently or rotating through. They like to practice at a high tempo to get reps in and to condition. They couldn't do that because they didn't want to wear the guys that could play out, they couldn't go live, which impacts both sides of the ball.

Now they can put three full lines out there at practice, which means more reps for the QB's and WR's.

And nothing prevents one of the well regarded freshmen from blowing up and taking a spot on the two deep, but this time that would be because they beat out guys ahead of them vs desperation.

From a pure numbers and experience position this unit (if experiencing normal health) is much, much, much, much better. There's your upgrade.

 

[GoSU96]

You can't use "projected" and "clearly" in the same sentence and make it a fact.

What? Projected is the premise for the conclusion. It's basic logic.

 

[sufandu]

That's not what you said. You said you KNOW that a FEW guys would never play. My simple question is that if you KNOW that, name the few.

My FACT based argument is that with the 18 OL on the roster SU's OL, with a solid full cycle of spring ball and strength and conditioning, with normal health, will be substantially better than anytime since 2012.

The unit has been short handed and young because of a significant number of career ending injuries to guys that were expected to be starters, that has forced freshmen and redshirt freshmen and juco transfers into starting roles with little to know development time. Those players are now 3rd year players and above. Ilaoa is the only guy on the "two deep" that is a second year player, and he had his own baptism by fire last year and held his own.

Six returning guys have starting experience. I can easily see two returning starters being on second unit, when has that ever happened here. The two deep are all legit sized P5 OL.

Maybe the biggest benefit is that the offense will be able to practice and play again with pace. I THINK (I don't KNOW) that a huge problem last year was the inability to get reps in. There weren't enough guys available to put two full units either running drills concurrently or rotating through. They like to practice at a high tempo to get reps in and to condition. They couldn't do that because they didn't want to wear the guys that could play out, they couldn't go live, which impacts both sides of the ball.

Now they can put three full lines out there at practice, which means more reps for the QB's and WR's.

And nothing prevents one of the well regarded freshmen from blowing up and taking a spot on the two deep, but this time that would be because they beat out guys ahead of them vs desperation.

From a pure numbers and experience position this unit (if experiencing normal health) is much, much, much, much better. There's your upgrade.

All of that makes sense. Hopefully the Servais weight experiment is over and he can play at a weight that allows him to move well enough while still having strength/power.

 

[FasterCuse]

I heard there is a medical condition. Probably will never play.

I keep reading this too, but if that were the case why not medically DQ him and open up another scholarship spot on the team?