Transfers & Offensive Line

[orangemass]

If we stand pat with this offensive line then Dino and company will eventually get what they deserve. The offensive line has been offensive the last couple of seasons if we don’t upgrade I don’t know what they are looking at

 

[sufandu]

I keep reading this too, but if that were the case why not medically DQ him and open up another scholarship spot on the team?

I don't know. Maybe they haven't needed the spot yet but if there is a guy they want and they need a spot, they'll do that.

 

[kcsu]

I don't know. Maybe they haven't needed the spot yet but if there is a guy they want and they need a spot, they'll do that.

If the guys can stay healthy the Ol should be good this year. If Cav can coach. To be fair he has had a few tough years with injuries and of course taking care of his wife.

 

[Bayside44]

Tell you what, you tell me who is going to give us this upgrade and depth, bet you can not. I hope we get that, but my opinion is I have seen no evidence to convince me of it. Go ahead explain it to me where this upgrade is coming from, I will listen with bated breath for your words of wisdom. Expect me to keep your response on file though should you be wrong.

You asked this at 3AM?

 

[orangepassion]

I don't know. Maybe they haven't needed the spot yet but if there is a guy they want and they need a spot, they'll do that.

I think Dino (for good and bad) likes to be very deliberate with this kind of stuff. Remember how long it took to hire a new DC? The problem in this situation is most of the better guys will be picked up quickly from more aggressive staffs.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

You're kidding, right? I've laid out the details behind that numerous times in the last couple of weeks.

Fact is that based on what we know there are six players returning with starting experience.

There are 11 players that I see that make the two deep. Of those 11, 10 will have been in the program 3 or more years, Ilaoa being the only second year player, all but one 6-4 or taller, 8 or 11 300 lbs or greater. All are three star recruits.

One potential starting unit is Bergeron 6-4, 312, 2 yr starter LT, Bleich 6-6 332 1 yr starter LG, Froumy 6-6 307 C, DDavis, 6-5 327 2 yr Starter, Servais 6-6 309 4 yr starter RT. That would easily be the biggest OL SU has ever fielded and most experienced since 2012.

There would be two guys with starting experience on the second string in Vetterollo and Tisdale and well regarded depth from Ilaoa, Red, and Petry if those five players don't win spots as starters. 5th year guy PDavis would be the 11th if he comes back.

Well, no. Starting experience is a guarantee of nothing if that experience reveals that those players have played poorly. Which they have.

Being around a long time, in and of itself, is a guarantee of nothing. Weight, in and of itself, is a guarantee of nothing. If it were, the staff would dispense with practice and force-feed OLs like so many foie gras ducks.

Yes, Bergeron and Bleich are proven commodities. Froumy has never played a down in his life. Perhaps Servais has been injured the past two years, but those years don't offer much optimism. Red? Petry? Red hasn't seen the field and Petry I think was on special teams. Vettorello? Most are hoping we get an experienced transfer center to replace him.

I really hope that we can field an OL made up of NFL draft picks, or at least one that is just serviceable. However, you haven't offered any objective evidence that this will happen because there isn't any. We can only hope that Dino rethinks strength & conditioning, rethinks the way they practice (so they aren't all injured before the season starts), and gets Cavanaugh to do his job.

 

[sufandu]

I think Dino (for good and bad) likes to be very deliberate with this kind of stuff. Remember how long it took to hire a new DC? The problem in this situation is most of the better guys will be picked up quickly from more aggressive staffs.

I guess you're talking about transfers. We still have plenty of room to take a few more those, so my comment really doesn't pertain to that. It was more about the 85 limit and whether White is taking up a needed spot.

 

[FloridaFan]

I guess you're talking about transfers. We still have plenty of room to take a few more those, so my comment really doesn't pertain to that. It was more about the 85 limit and whether White is taking up a needed spot.

We have 4 spots. I don’t think we take more then 2 more transfers at most if that

 

[IthacaMatt]

That's not what you said. You said you KNOW that a FEW guys would never play. My simple question is that if you KNOW that, name the few.

Come on, GO, you don't do that and throw kids under the bus like that.

 

[721Comstock]

We have 4 spots. I don’t think we take more then 2 more transfers at most if that

Why not?

Dino sounds like a man who knows there is a LOT riding on next year - “I’m scratching and clawing” - and given the choice between HS kids who may not contribute for a few years, or a transfer who could contribute IMMEDIATELY, it would be nuts at this point not to use all of the remaining slots on the latter.

DT & C, then maybe outside WR & DB, and done.

 

[IthacaMatt]

My FACT based argument is that with the 18 OL on the roster SU's OL, with a solid full cycle of spring ball and strength and conditioning, with normal health, will be substantially better than anytime since 2012.

Six returning guys have starting experience. I can easily see two returning starters being on second unit, when has that ever happened here. The two deep are all legit sized P5 OL.

From a pure numbers and experience position this unit (if experiencing normal health) is much, much, much, much better. There's your upgrade.

The real question is how many of those guys who have been hurt during the past 2 seasons still can contribute at the top level, or whether they won't. On paper, this should be a strength of the team. But the roster, "on paper", set up going into 2020 like this was going to be a great team.

 

[sufandu]

Well, no. Starting experience is a guarantee of nothing if that experience reveals that those players have played poorly. Which they have.

Being around a long time, in and of itself, is a guarantee of nothing. Weight, in and of itself, is a guarantee of nothing. If it were, the staff would dispense with practice and force-feed OLs like so many foie gras ducks.

Yes, Bergeron and Bleich are proven commodities. Froumy has never played a down in his life. Perhaps Servais has been injured the past two years, but those years don't offer much optimism. Red? Petry? Red hasn't seen the field and Petry I think was on special teams. Vettorello? Most are hoping we get an experienced transfer center to replace him.

I really hope that we can field an OL made up of NFL draft picks, or at least one that is just serviceable. However, you haven't offered any objective evidence that this will happen because there isn't any. We can only hope that Dino rethinks strength & conditioning, rethinks the way they practice (so they aren't all injured before the season starts), and gets Cavanaugh to do his job.

Servais has had different issues the last two years. He played just fine in 2017 and missed 2018. In 2019 he expected to play tackle and was undersized when he was unexpectedly moved back to center when Heckle(?) went out. He played better when he went back out to tackle. This year he played through injuries that he may not have, had we not had a combination of injuries that were specific to this year and medical DQs the previous few years that have impacted overall depth.

I think people are underestimating the hit we took with the number of medical DQs we had for a few years. Those take time to make up for and make other injuries more glaring.

 

[sufandu]

We have 4 spots. I don’t think we take more then 2 more transfers at most if that

Why did you quote me with this comment?

 

[IthacaMatt]

What? Projected is the premise for the conclusion. It's basic logic.

Eh, no, it's not. A projection does not guarantee an outcome. It points to a possible outcome.

To say this "will be the best OL since 2012" is hopeful on your part, based on some measurables, but leaving out others.

 

[RF2044]

The real question is how many of those guys who have been hurt during the past 2 seasons still can contribute at the top level, or whether they won't. On paper, this should be a strength of the team. But the roster, "on paper", set up going into 2020 like this was going to be a great team.

I don't know about "great," but certainly improved over last year's 5 win team -- which would have enabled this year's squad to get firmly back into bowl contention.

But then we had an inordinate amount of offseason injuries at one key positional unit, totally decimating the interior OL.

And then the ACC revamped what shaped up as a favorable schedule, and gave us a much harder one.

And then our QB got injured part way through the season.

Let's dispense with the fallacy that 2020 set up well, and then the team just failed to live up to expectations.

 

[SUskibum]

Servais has had different issues the last two years. He played just fine in 2017 and missed 2018. In 2019 he expected to play tackle and was undersized when he was unexpectedly moved back to center when Heckle(?) went out. He played better when he went back out to tackle. This year he played through injuries that he may not have, had we not had a combination of injuries that were specific to this year and medical DQs the previous few years that have impacted overall depth.

I think people are underestimating the hit we took with the number of medical DQs we had for a few years. Those take time to make up for and make other injuries more glaring.

I’m pretty sure Servais played 95% of the snaps at center in 2018

 

[sufandu]

I’m pretty sure Servais played 95% of the snaps at center in 2018

That may be right. Am I mixing him up with someone else that missed 2018? If I am, that means he's had 2 1/2 years of reliable play, a half year out of his expected position where he underperformed, and a year playing through injury.

 

[syrBossHogg]

That may be right. Am I mixing him up with someone else that missed 2018? If I am, that means he's had 2 1/2 years of reliable play, a half year out of his expected position where he underperformed, and a year playing through injury.

Everyone was healthy for 2018. 2017 we lost Roberts for the entire season during training camp

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I wonder if perhaps Cavanaugh isn't a believer in the one year stopgap solution on the line. Supposedly he was overruled on Alexander playing two seasons ago. Maybe for whatever reason he doesn't mesh with grad transfers?

 

[CapitalO]

I keep reading this too, but if that were the case why not medically DQ him and open up another scholarship spot on the team?

I wonder if perhaps Cavanaugh isn't a believer in the one year stopgap solution on the line. Supposedly he was overruled on Alexander playing two seasons ago. Maybe for whatever reason he doesn't mesh with grad transfers?

Koda Martin worked out quite well.

 

[RandomGuy]

Well, no. Starting experience is a guarantee of nothing if that experience reveals that those players have played poorly. Which they have.

Being around a long time, in and of itself, is a guarantee of nothing. Weight, in and of itself, is a guarantee of nothing. If it were, the staff would dispense with practice and force-feed OLs like so many foie gras ducks.

Yes, Bergeron and Bleich are proven commodities. Froumy has never played a down in his life. Perhaps Servais has been injured the past two years, but those years don't offer much optimism. Red? Petry? Red hasn't seen the field and Petry I think was on special teams. Vettorello? Most are hoping we get an experienced transfer center to replace him.

I really hope that we can field an OL made up of NFL draft picks, or at least one that is just serviceable. However, you haven't offered any objective evidence that this will happen because there isn't any. We can only hope that Dino rethinks strength & conditioning, rethinks the way they practice (so they aren't all injured before the season starts), and gets Cavanaugh to do his job.

I'd say Bleich is a proven commodity. NONE of our guys received an overall passing line grade this year. I believe Dakota did, in just one area. If we're optimistic, a healthy Serv, Dakota, Bleich, should offer us a slight improvement next year. I think anything past that is conjecture.

IMO, The more important question is why have none of our guys received a passing P5 line grade, in the last 2 years?

 

[TheCusian]

We recruited a ton of linemen, on both sides of the ball.
It takes a year or two for young linemen, but we should have enough guys to have a functional line and some reasonable depth this year. If we don't, I mean, how does Cavanaugh keep his job.

I agree, I think. I’m not sure how to fairly judge the job he’s done given the circumstances. But as some point, it doesn’t matter.

 

[721Comstock]

I'd say Bleich is a proven commodity. NONE of our guys received an overall passing line grade this year. I believe Dakota did, in just one area. If we're optimistic, a healthy Serv, Dakota, Bleich, should offer us a slight improvement next year. I think anything past that is conjecture.

IMO, The more important question is why have none of our guys received a passing P5 line grade, in the last 2 years?

My guess is - because of the injuries, shuffling, and guys playing the wrong positions?

Good line play is all 5 guys working well together.
We haven’t had that - so the lack of that has negatively impacted all of them, individually and collectively.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Koda Martin worked out quite well.

Right.

But as the new guy position coach, you're rolling with the HCs son in law.

 

[CapitalO]

I'd say Bleich is a proven commodity. NONE of our guys received an overall passing line grade this year. I believe Dakota did, in just one area. If we're optimistic, a healthy Serv, Dakota, Bleich, should offer us a slight improvement next year. I think anything past that is conjecture.

IMO, The more important question is why have none of our guys received a passing P5 line grade, in the last 2 years?

My answer is - lack of talent - lack of Coaching - and the loss of Dungey .