Unacceptable.

[HOFCeluck]

The idea that we’d beat MSU in 2016 because we beat a completely different MSU team in 2018 by one possession is not a hill I would choose to die on but hey, I want to see where this goes.

 

[OrangeDW]

It was luck. MSU looked past Middle Tennessee. No way they ever would have looked past us. And we didn't look past MTSU after what they did to MSU.

That's reasonable.

Eh. There’s almost always “luck” in that regard though for every team that makes a run.

1996, was it Memphis who lost as a 5 seed in round 1? So we got 12 seed Drexel in round 2. And Georgia knocked off the 1 seed? So we played an 8 seed in the sweet 16.

We still went through everyone in our path including Kansas.

2003, UConn - who had beaten us twice - lost so we avoided that tough matchup.

It’s the nature of the tournament. You don’t have to beat the highest seed possible in every round.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Eh. There’s almost always “luck” in that regard though for every team that makes a run.

1996, was it Memphis who lost as a 5 seed in round 1? So we got 12 seed Drexel in round 2. And Georgia knocked off the 1 seed? So we played an 8 seed in the sweet 16.

We still went through everyone in our path including Kansas.

2003, UConn - who had beaten us twice - lost so we avoided that tough matchup.

It’s the nature of the tournament. You don’t have to beat the highest seed possible in every round.

I don't disagree. I just don't think we should ever think there wasn't some luck involved.

 

[OrangeDW]

The idea that we’d beat MSU in 2016 because we beat a completely different MSU team in 2018 by one possession is not a hill I would choose to die on but hey, I want to see where this goes.

Hmm. Personally both would’ve been games that going into I would think they could go either way and would probably come down to a few possessions.

There’s usually only a few teams who can completely outclass us in the years that we’re good enough to make a run. UNC ‘16 being one of the few.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It was luck. MSU looked past Middle Tennessee. No way they ever would have looked past us. And we didn't look past MTSU after what they did to MSU.

That's reasonable.

We stink now, but we beat MTSU by 25! MSU couldn’t have lucked into a win against MTSU?

I would have taken my chances against Izzo. He’s beat JB one time.

Sick of that argument, no offense.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

We stink now, but we beat MTSU by 25! MSU couldn’t have lucked into a win against MTSU?

I would have taken my chances against Izzo. He’s beat JB one time.

Sick of that argument, no offense.

At the risk of being crude, MTSU shot their load.

 

[SoBeCuse]

It’s hard to speculate on all of this. That MSU team was pretty fantastic all year though. 29-5. Maybe his best team in quite some time. They lost in the B10 Championship game to that really good Purdue team who had Swanigan, Hass, etc. That probably cost them the #1 seed as UVA was given it. Fair. Those two teams were fanastic all year. Denzel Valentine was special all year and they had all the pieces. Just ran into a MTSU who played even better than they did. MSU was like #2 in KenPom AdjO and 25 in AdJD. Safe to say we would’ve been a big underdog against them and highly unlikely to beat them.

The narrative which is getting tiring and frankly a grasping at straws scenario is that somehow, for a couple of games in March of pulling unusual and outlier upsets on Izzo or Bennett, that the program is fine. That we’re elite still. That cannot be further from the truth, IMO. Michigan St has been a #1 or #2 seed how many times in the past five years or so? Virginia? They aren’t beating chumps either. Syracuse should be comfortably in the tournament every year if we’re being honest. Those days seem long gone.

 

[dasher]

It was luck. MSU looked past Middle Tennessee. No way they ever would have looked past us. And we didn't look past MTSU after what they did to MSU.

That's reasonable.

No. That is ridiculous. MSU got routed by Middle Tenn. Anything else is just spin. MSU a team we always seem to do well against by the way. What is the excuse for Virginia? More luck?

 

[dasher]

It’s hard to speculate on all of this. That MSU team was pretty fantastic all year though. 29-5. Maybe his best team in quite some time. They lost in the B10 Championship game to that really good Purdue team who had Swanigan, Hass, etc. That probably cost them the #1 seed as UVA was given it. Fair. Those two teams were fanastic all year. Denzel Valentine was special all year and they had all the pieces. Just ran into a MTSU who played even better than they did. MSU was like #2 in KenPom AdjO and 25 in AdJD. Safe to say we would’ve been a big underdog against them and highly unlikely to beat them.

The narrative which is getting tiring and frankly a grasping at straws scenario is that somehow, for a couple of games in March of pulling upsets on Izzo or Bennett, that the program is fine. That we’re elite still. That cannot be further from the truth, IMO. Michigan St has been a #1 or #2 seed how many times in the past five years or so? Virginia? They aren’t beating chumps either. Syracuse should be comfortably in the tournament every year if we’re being honest. Those days seem long gone.

No one is saying the program is fine. What we are saying , at least I am, is that to claim that the wins in march have been lucky, is just plain dumb. Our program right now is stale in my opinion. Our program right now is a tired one. I brought that up a few years ago using me as an example. I am not the same as I was 25 years ago. But lets please stop with this argument that if MSU would not have had their doors blown out, they would have beat us. First, no one knows that. Second, the team that blew MSU out got smoked by us.

 

[Vorony]

No. That is ridiculous. MSU got routed by Middle Tenn. Anything else is just spin. MSU a team we always seem to do well against by the way. What is the excuse for Virginia? More luck?

Yes - aka Malachi playing out of his mind for 5 minutes and carrying the team to victory. We were down double digits late in the 2nd half until he became Kobe for that stretch. So I’d call that a partial stroke of luck too.

 

[orange7]

No. That is ridiculous. MSU got routed by Middle Tenn. Anything else is just spin. MSU a team we always seem to do well against by the way. What is the excuse for Virginia? More luck?

No. That is ridiculous. MSU got routed by Middle Tenn. Anything else is just spin. MSU a team we always seem to do well against by the way. What is the excuse for Virginia? More luck?

Definitely luck in my opinion. Basing on your argument, MTSU is the better team because they routed MSU. In a one game tournament anything can happen, but that does not make MTSU the better team overall, just happened to be lucky on that day.

MTSU and MSU play 10 games, I would say MSU wins 98% of the time back in 2016. the other 2% is a roll of the dice if one team happens to have a bad day.

In terms of 'Cuse, making a lucky sweet 16 run last year was definite luck. We were the last team in, and once again beat two teams that were better than us, one being that stacked MSU team.

 

[SoBeCuse]

No. That is ridiculous. MSU got routed by Middle Tenn. Anything else is just spin. MSU a team we always seem to do well against by the way. What is the excuse for Virginia? More luck?

They weren’t routed. It was a 3-point game with a little over a minute left. MTSU just could not be stopped. Literally on fire and NBA Jam style. MSU shot 56% from 2 and 46% from 3. It was crazy albeit highly entertaining.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Complain about this year fine. Complaining about 2016 is stupid.

We beat the number 1 SEC team, won at Duke, beat a top 25 UConn, and beat Virginia that year.

We’re all 4 of those games luck?

Some ya”ll used to praise Izzo for some tournament magician when he won Games in March with double digit losses.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yes - aka Malachi playing out of his mind for 5 minutes and carrying the team to victory. We were down double digits late in the 2nd half until he became Kobe for that stretch. So I’d call that a partial stroke of luck too.

He had help. Lydon played pretty good that tournament.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Definitely luck in my opinion. Basing on your argument, MTSU is the better team because they routed MSU. In a one game tournament anything can happen, but that does not make MTSU the better team overall, just happened to be lucky on that day.

MTSU and MSU play 10 games, I would say MSU wins 98% of the time back in 2016. the other 2% is a roll of the dice if one team happens to have a bad day.

In terms of 'Cuse, making a lucky sweet 16 run last year was definite luck. We were the last team in, and once again beat two teams that were better than us, one being that stacked MSU team.

So it was luck when Richmond and Vermont beat us. We weren’t outplayed. Got it.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Complain about this year fine. Complaining about 2016 is stupid.

We beat the number 1 SEC team, won at Duke, beat a top 25 UConn, and beat Virginia that year.

We’re all 4 of those games luck?

Some ya”ll used to praise Izzo for some tournament magician when he won Games in March with double digit losses.

It’s all speculative I suppose. SU would’ve been, I don’t know...a big underdog against MSU. Upsets happen. Wisconsin knocked off #1 seed Villanova that year I believe. I just don’t equate some upset constituting a better team or an overall better season/profile/state of the program. A seven game series those MSU teams last season and in 2016 dispose of us pretty easily, IMO. A one game upset is an outlier.

 

[HOFCeluck]

MTSU and MSU play 10 games, I would say MSU wins 98% of the time back in 2016. the other 2% is a roll of the dice if one team happens to have a bad day.

I don’t want to ruin your H0T Takes, but you’re saying here that MTSU would win 0.2 games?

 

[dasher]

They weren’t routed. It was a 3-point game with a little over a minute left. MTSU just could not be stopped. Literally on fire and NBA Jam style. MSU shot 56% from 2 and 46% from 3. It was crazy albeit highly entertaining.

I coached American Legion baseball in another life. A rival coach accused me of running up the score. We won by 1. Rout is in the eye of the beholder. As a baseball aside, we get to the final four in the state and there are major league scouts from one end of the back stop to the other. I say, uh oh. They aren't here to see any of my guys. We lost 2-1 . It was Ron Darling.

 

[dasher]

Yes - aka Malachi playing out of his mind for 5 minutes and carrying the team to victory. We were down double digits late in the 2nd half until he became Kobe for that stretch. So I’d call that a partial stroke of luck too.

Virginia got up by London P lighting us up. It works both ways

 

[MSOrange]

I coached American Legion baseball in another life. A rival coach accused me of running up the score. We won by 1. Rout is in the eye of the beholder. As a baseball aside, we get to the final four in the state and there are major league scouts from one end of the back stop to the other. I say, uh oh. They aren't here to see any of my guys. We lost 2-1 . It was Ron Darling.

wow you're old!

 

[dasher]

wow you're old!

It's getting worse every day

 

[Alsacs]

Izzo’s record vs. Duke/Syracuse/North Carolina is 4-23.

While I didn’t think at the time we would have beaten 2016 Michigan State those numbers tells me we had a better chance than I originally thought.

Izzo melts down against K/JB/Roy but he does own Virginia/Bennett.

 

[dasher]

Izzo’s record vs. Duke/Syracuse/North Carolina is 4-23.

While I didn’t think at the time we would have beaten 2016 Michigan State those numbers tells me we had a better chance than I originally thought.

Izzo melts down against K/JB/Roy but he does own Virginia/Bennett.

I believe it is 4-25 But it's bad regardless

 

[dasher]

That all fine. I watched that game. Playing catch-up towards the end and not being able to seize momentum? Sure. Routed? No. MSU was up at H too. They were even up with 3:00 left. Come on.

They lost. Period. We beat the team that beat them by 25. Teams lose in the NCAA. the idea that we were lucky they lost is silly. We would have heard the same nonsense if they lost before playing us last year. We were not lucky last year. We were not lucky in 2016. We were not lucky in 2013. In the same regard, I have never, not for a second, said we were unlucky when we lost. We weren't unlucky vs Navy. Or Richmond. Or Rhode Island. Or any of the rest.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

No. That is ridiculous. MSU got routed by Middle Tenn. Anything else is just spin. MSU a team we always seem to do well against by the way. What is the excuse for Virginia? More luck?

90-81 is not routed. Come on.