UNC Hearing, Day One - no public info

[OrangeDW]

I get it. Its an ugly fact of human nature that some(most) want to see superiority and excellence taken down as they play the victim and shout how unfair the world is.
I tried to tell those who'd listen back in the spring this wouldn't end the way you are wanting. You'll have to satisfy your inferiority complex and get your pound of flesh elsewhere.

You're a weird guy.

 

[Unctar88]

Its an interesting situation because these classes lost their accreditation. So obviously most of the sports teams had ineligible players on them. I don't see how the NCAA can not vacate all wins from such teams. If they don't how can they every declare anyone ineligible again? How do any penalties for ineligible players from the past stand? How can you even pretend that you are policing student/athlete eligibility anymore? As all the information from the UNC situation has come out its actually put the NCAA in quite a pickle. Remember they wanted nothing to do with this originally.

If youre just getting all your info on this case from ESPN and the national outlets, you are doing yourself a disservice if youre seriously interested in hearing both sides. All the questions youre asking are taking a lot of liberties to say the least with the reality of the case.

 

[orangefog]

Its an interesting situation because these classes lost their accreditation. So obviously most of the sports teams had ineligible players on them. I don't see how the NCAA can not vacate all wins from such teams. If they don't how can they every declare anyone ineligible again? How do any penalties for ineligible players from the past stand? How can you even pretend that you are policing student/athlete eligibility anymore? As all the information from the UNC situation has come out its actually put the NCAA in quite a pickle. Remember they wanted nothing to do with this originally.

That's how I see it as well. UNC will have had ineligible players in many sports every year for 18 years. Even if they don't hammer them by banning them from the postseason for years (as they should) or take away scholarships (as they should), they at least have to vacate all wins with ineligible players.

 

[RF2044]

Its an interesting situation because these classes lost their accreditation. So obviously most of the sports teams had ineligible players on them. I don't see how the NCAA can not vacate all wins from such teams. If they don't how can they every declare anyone ineligible again? How do any penalties for ineligible players from the past stand? How can you even pretend that you are policing student/athlete eligibility anymore? As all the information from the UNC situation has come out its actually put the NCAA in quite a pickle. Remember they wanted nothing to do with this originally.

Spot on. Emmert's attempt to bait and switch with his "wheelhouse" comments a few years ago was him attempting to justify why the NCAA shouldn't get involved on the basis of not wanting to get involved in what constitutes "acceptable" curriculum, which I actually don't disagree with. But taking that incredibly narrow of the situation completely overlooks [intentionally, IMO] that 18 years worth of athletes had their GPAs artificially inflated by such courses, and that some of them probably wouldn't have met minimum eligibility criteria without this boost.

Glad the sports media didn't let this one go, because it "shamed" the NCAA into not getting away with blowing this off.

 

[Unctar88]

If anyone is really interested in a different perspective

Jay Bilas on UNC: According to NCAA rules, this is not academic fraud - ACCSports.com

 

[jordoo]

If youre just getting all your info on this case from ESPN and the national outlets, you are doing yourself a disservice if youre seriously interested in hearing both sides. All the questions youre asking are taking a lot of liberties to say the least with the reality of the case.

I don't need to hear more I'm comfortable with my conclusion. IMO basically UNC created what amounts to fake classes for the purpose of making it easy for athletes to maintain their eligibility. Sure these classes where available to all students but in the end even the accreditation place said they were not classes that you can get college credits for.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Theres really no reasoning with the almost senile level of intelligence youre displaying(which I think is on purpose) so Ill just bow out and say I really hope if indeed you are an employer you are better than this.

You came here ready to fight so what do you expect. I'm trolling the troll.

The degree is either worth nothing or you cheated. That's what the NCAA will decide for you.

 

[Unctar88]

You came here ready to fight so what do you expect. I'm trolling the troll.

The degree is either worth nothing or you cheated. That's what the NCAA will decide for you.

No, I came to give a different perspective, and since it goes against what most here believe or want to believe, it naturally causes consternation. Obviously you all care enough about it to have a few threads on your board, so I figured I would join the discussion.

Your second sentence is just more "idiocracy" level intellect.. so yeah.

 

[OrangeDW]

No, I came to give a different perspective, and since it goes against what most here believe or want to believe, it naturally causes consternation. Obviously you all care enough about it to have a few threads on your board, so I figured I would join the discussion.

Your second sentence is just more "idiocracy" level intellect.. so yeah.

Do you scroll everyone's boards looking for UNC threads? Or do you especially care just what Syracuse fans are saying for some reason?

 

[Day2]

That says quite a bit about not only your professionalism and/or lack thereof, but also about your character.

You just referred to someone as trailer trash.

 

[Unctar88]

You just referred to someone as trailer trash.

Wrong. I referred to a message board(NC states) as such.

 

[Day2]

Wrong. I referred to a message board(NC states) as such.

Well that makes everything OK and is doing wonders for your character.

 

[Unctar88]

Well that makes everything OK and is doing wonders for your character.

kewl.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Its an interesting situation because these classes lost their accreditation. So obviously most of the sports teams had ineligible players on them. I don't see how the NCAA can not vacate all wins from such teams. If they don't how can they every declare anyone ineligible again? How do any penalties for ineligible players from the past stand? How can you even pretend that you are policing student/athlete eligibility anymore? As all the information from the UNC situation has come out its actually put the NCAA in quite a pickle. Remember they wanted nothing to do with this originally.

u
The key factor is the loss of accreditation for these classes.

 

[reedny]

If anyone is really interested in a different perspective

Jay Bilas on UNC: According to NCAA rules, this is not academic fraud - ACCSports.com

That ship (wheelhouse argument) sailed when the COI crucified Syracuse for adding footnotes to a paper of a BB player who spoke Portuguese. If providing footnotes on a single paper to an athlete constitutes excessive academic assistance, and if such assistance is an impermissible benefit (the "Syracuse Precedent"), then giving away whole courses to athletes obviously violates NCAA rules, to say nothing of the fact that it's cheating.

The COI has said as much in recent public statements.

I don't think UNC's doing its cause any good by threatening litigation.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Bodes penalties, just deciding how much.

By the time that many people order lunch, it can take a lot of time.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

That ship (wheelhouse argument) sailed when the COI crucified Syracuse for adding footnotes to a paper of a BB player who spoke Portuguese. If a footnote is excessive academic assistance, and excessive academic assistance to a SA is an impermissible benefit (the "Syracuse Precedent"), then it's against the NCAA rules, to say nothing of the fact that it's cheating.

No. Totally different. UNC's is worse, but SU's was specific help to keep a player eligible.

 

[reedny]

No. Totally different. UNC's is worse, but SU's was specific help to keep a player eligible.

They're exactly the same, only the scale is different. It's pretty much conceded that UNC's "ethics" professor (clearly someone representing the U's interests) steered athletes to automatic-A courses to keep them eligible. Substantively, that's no different from helping one or two students with papers (excessive academic assistance/impermissible benefit), which is the basis on which the COI dropped the hammer on SU. UNC engaged in the same conduct, only more egregiously, for more than a thousand SA's over almost 2 decades.

 

[Unctar88]

A very good read that is pretty balanced on the whole. Obvious this guy has done some good research into the case.

The UNC Scandal: Will The Penalties Live Up To The Hype? - CollegeAD

 

[Toga]

I really want someone with a UNC degree to apply to a job with me some day just so I can schedule an interview, tell them their degree is worth nothing, and laugh in their face.

Go all Gene Wilder and yell - Your degree is worth Nothing! Good day sir!

 

[orangefog]

Go all Gene Wilder and yell - Your degree is worth Nothing! Good day sir!

If I were a UNC grad, I would go to every job interview armed with an Everlasting Gobstopper.

 

[jimsonjunction]

A very good read that is pretty balanced on the whole. Obvious this guy has done some good research into the case.

The UNC Scandal: Will The Penalties Live Up To The Hype? - CollegeAD

I read the article, and I agree that it's pretty balanced. It's a very tricky situation as the article points out. But just FYI, people outside of UNC fans have little interest in the details of the case. Take it from fans who have been there before.

Also, fans of programs who got hammered by the NCAA have little sympathy for you and your school, especially because your school had systemic fraud, not a collection of smaller infractions, and especially when you come onto their board talking about your "superiority" and "excellence."

 

[Unctar88]

I read the article, and I agree that it's pretty balanced. It's a very tricky situation as the article points out. But just FYI, people outside of UNC fans have little interest in the details of the case. Take it from fans who have been there before.

Also, fans of programs who got hammered by the NCAA have little sympathy for you and your school, especially because your school had systemic fraud, not a collection of smaller infractions, and especially when you come onto their board talking about your "superiority" and "excellence."

I can understand the anger and vitriol towards the NCAA by you guys and perhaps this makes your fans much more sensitive to the unc situation. However this is an emotional response and will blind one from seeing the details clearly. Especially these days there appears to be a real kickback against anything that is correlated with excellence. Mediocrity rules the day. People take delight in bringing success down- it wasn't meant as an attack on Syracuse as your program has built a nice niche as a northeastern power..just an observation that perhaps I should've worded differently.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I can understand the anger and vitriol towards the NCAA by you guys and perhaps this makes your fans much more sensitive to the unc situation. However this is an emotional response and will blind one from seeing the details clearly. Especially these days there appears to be a real kickback against anything that is correlated with excellence. Mediocrity rules the day. People take delight in bringing success down- it wasn't meant as an attack on Syracuse as your program has built a nice niche as a northeastern power..just an observation that perhaps I should've worded differently.

We had 10 or 11 scholarships and 2 coaches able to recruit at once for the last 3 years due to a secretary editing a paper. Nobody here wants to hear about UNC's excellence when we are competing on a different playing field.

 

[Unctar88]

We had 10 or 11 scholarships and 2 coaches able to recruit at once for the last 3 years due to a secretary editing a paper. Nobody here wants to hear about UNC's excellence when we are competing on a different playing field.

No offense but are those excuses for the mediocrity in acc play? I'm not hugely familiar with the penalties levied in your case besides the postseason ban in a year you weren't making the tournament anyways-but those things you mention really shouldn't affect recruiting that terribly. I seem to recall a huge amount of hype for your team before last season.