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Nope, that goal didn't go in. But on the other hand the defender brought the offensive player down from behind with a trip.
USMNT soccer team thread
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Nope, that goal didn't go in. But on the other hand the defender brought the offensive player down from behind with a trip.
Upstate
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LMAO. Ah, yes, those who invest in domestic teams, who are bound by the league to invest in domestic talent are hurting the domestic national team. It must be difficult for you to choose to wear your Ronaldo, Messi or Neymar jersey in the morning.
orange79
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CuseCPT
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If USA qualifying comes down to a single goal we don’t deserve to go.
ForCuseSake
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US won’t win a WC until pay to play is abolished.
The youth game is fecked when we have millions of boys playing the sport and STILL can’t cultivate world class talent outside of 1-2 borderline players per generation.
The youth game is fecked when we have millions of boys playing the sport and STILL can’t cultivate world class talent outside of 1-2 borderline players per generation.
Bayside44
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Forza Azzurri
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LOL..I see you've met Alsacs.
Alsacs is the leading expert on just about any topic you can imagine.
If you were to start a thread on Buzkashi, Alsacs would post about it as if he grew up playing the game in Kabul and was coach of the Afghan National team.
Unfortunately, his Buzkashi expertise does not extend to soccer.
Best bet is just to ignore him...
Scroll back through this thread and you'll figure out pretty quickly who is worth reading, and responding to, and who isn't...
CuseCPT
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I was intrigued by your post. I admit I didn’t know what pay to play was. I found this article:
'It’s only working for the white kids': American soccer's diversity problem
You honestly think I have this giant ego and think I am never wrong.
I admit I am wrong plenty. I respect the passion of DeGrozz he knows his stuff and knows the MLS league better than I do no doubt.
Just because I am loud and have passion you think I am what you said.
Do yourself a favor and think whatever the hell you want but stop lying about me. I never claim to be an expert on anything. I have an opinion. If anybody disagrees with me I will engage in a backforth but whatever man.
Go ahead and ignore you just show how ignorant you are. My god I don’t know to deal with aholes who can’t stand style instead of just disagreeing with the substance. What a bleeping joke this post is.
Fjoinkay
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I'm no expert, and I haven't read a lick of this thread in over a year. What this all looks like to me is that US men's soccer is delusional. It sure looks like Juergen Klinsmann spoke the truth to US men's soccer, and the US men (dare I say boys?) couldn't handle the truth. Instead folks like Landon Donovan and Bob Bradley harbored resentments and threw tantrums and eventually had their way. We all know the result. Too much immaturity at highest levels of the sport.
Forza Azzurri
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Eh, seems really bad now but is really just a blip...
40 years ago, I arrived in Florence, Italy having never kicked a soccer ball.
Spent two years over there being immersed in the sport, including living there during the 1978 World Cup.
Arrived back at Kennedy in 1979 and came home to..a soccer wasteland.
Nobody knew a thing about the game. The World Cup? Never heard of it. European Championships and Copa America? No idea. Champions Cup (forerunner to Champions League)? Uh-uh...Juventus, Real Madrid, Bayern Munchen, Ajax, Liverpool?What?...Maradona, Platini? Who?
Only soccer on TV was a one-hour show on PBS called Soccer made in Germany.
Pele and the Cosmos and the NASL were a blip - just like the USFL or the XFL...
1982 World Cup final was only game on US televisions, and was shown with commercial interruptions.
Our first (meaning first in modern era) World Cup team in 1990 was the equivalent of having a college team in the NBA playoffs - a complete mismatch.
Fast forward to today. We have a thriving domestic league that is over 20 years old. A whole generation of kids has grown up knowing, and following, the game - both internationally and domestically. All five major leagues are on TV as well as MLS...Major club jerseys being worn everywhere.
Our team is still not good enough but it competes (not last night apparently) and, unlike in 1990 when everyone outclassed us, there are now only a handful of teams that we truly have no shot against...in addition, we finally have our first player who might be truly world-class...
Even a guy like yourself pays attention. You may only pay attention to the National team, but you are paying attention.
It's not the NFL and won't ever be the NFL and the US will probably not summit the mountain during my lifetime but it is thriving and growing and is here to stay...
In fact, who knows? This set back may actually cause the Federation to really try and fix our feeder issues (ie. our youth system) once and for-all so, at some point, we can compete with France and Spain and Brazil and Argentina and Germany etc...
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DeGrozz
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The pay to play is obviously an overarching problem, but I really think that it has a root cause that's deeper than just pay to play, which I was alluding to in my previous posts.
Right now the elite player development system in the US is the US Soccer Development Academy. It's a network of approximately 200-250 clubs (150 for boys, about half as many planned for girls). About 10 years ago, this 'Academy' was spearheaded by USSoccer and the MLS to start a youth player development program. The teams all have squads for the common youth levels (I don't remember exactly what the levels are, but think U-11, U-12, U-15, U-17, etc.).
The great thing about the changes to US Youth Soccer under the USSDA is that it's changed the elite youth development leagues from leagues that focus on traveling to play multiple games every weekend to teams that focus on training and tactics and play 2-3 games per month.
These teams have dedicated coaches, staff, required trainings for coaches, etc. When people say "the MLS doesn't develop players", well its this Academy system that is developing them, it's where Josh Sargent, Christian Pulisic, Deandre Yedlin, Weston McKennie, etc came through.
The issue is that it's expensive. Full coaching staffs, long travel when there are games, equipment, field rentals, and the like all add up. In most countries, clubs will have academies that can absorb these costs because the domestic league is supported and teams see a return on their investment in youth development. People show up for games, people turn on the TV, and investing in these youth programs is profitable for the league. If you look at the way that people are discussing the league here, it's obvious that is not the case in the US. Andrea Pirlo can go from starting in a Champions League final against Real Madrid and two months later be playing in the MLS and people will still say 'retirement league'. They also don't ever recognize we have players that are starting for Belgium in major tournaments, playing for Spain, the guy that knocked Paraguay out of the world cup last night is an MLSer, there's a player starting for England's U-21 team, there have been 5 or 6 other starters in COMNEBOL and UEFA qualifiers as well.
There is a truly legitimate system in place. It's only been around for 10 years, so we are just hitting our stride with it right now, but until people decide to invest in the domestic sport, nothing's going to change. Yes, Twellman is right -- there are systematic changes that need to be made, but we are trying to put 20,000+ of the best young soccer players in the nation into a true development program. It's just that currently there's no way to fund it until our domestic league becomes more successful and has those funds to prop up more than just the US development academies.
That's why I'm on here ranting about people trashing our domestic league and that's why I push people to watch the MLS, because the pundits can rant and rave about changes that need to be made, but until there are funds to make those changes expect the status quo.
I'll leave with this -- yes, there are some bad teams in the MLS. But try turning on a game, even if it's just to watch the better teams. Atlanta plays a style of soccer that is extremely enjoyable to watch, yes you'll have to watch Jeff Larentowicz trap a ball 5 yards out of bounds every now and then, but this team is putting 70K+ screaming fans into a stadium with an electric atmosphere and it makes for an entertaining 2 hours. Turn on the Red Bulls, they play a high pressure system that I'd love to see the US adopt more of that creates lots of opportunities and scoring chances. They also have a great academy that is producing future US Soccer stars like Tyler Adams and Matt Miazga. Turn on NYCFC. You've probably never seen an American team try to build out of the back. They have young stars on the team like Jack Harrison (currently playing for England who is also a product of the Manchester United system and also and NCAA and Gatorade high school player of the year), Yangel Herrera who is owned by Man City and will be playing at a top-25 club in 3 or 4 years, Ronald Matarita who saved the Panama goal that never was off the line and will likely be in Spain in a few years, Alexander Ring who's like the Boulware equivalent of a center midfielder, etc, etc. I could go on and on about the improving quality of the league.
It's a fun league to follow with great parity, improving play, and soccer is best when experienced locally. Grab a ticket, they're like 10 bucks and bring the family. I guarantee you won't have a bad time, plus you can consider it an investment in our 2034 world cup win.
Edit: That became a wall of text. TL/DR: Pay for play sucks, but there's no other way to fund our academies. More financial success of the domestic league will make it possible for American clubs to invest more in youth. Go out and try a local game. It's fun.
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I wish the player development systems stressed possession and passing.
Pirlo was talking about American soccer last year.
NYCFC's Andrea Pirlo: MLS has too much running, too little play
This is the stuff we have to make strides in I believe.
MLS has gotten miles better from 1996.
Seattle, Portland, KC, LA Galaxy, Dallas,Salt Lake, Toronto, DC, Orlando have solid fanbases.
The players just need to move upward whenever they can.
Pirlo was talking about American soccer last year.
NYCFC's Andrea Pirlo: MLS has too much running, too little play
This is the stuff we have to make strides in I believe.
MLS has gotten miles better from 1996.
Seattle, Portland, KC, LA Galaxy, Dallas,Salt Lake, Toronto, DC, Orlando have solid fanbases.
The players just need to move upward whenever they can.
Forza Azzurri
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Yeah, DeGrozz does know his stuff and he absolutely wiped the floor with you in that exchange.
Your posts exude absolutely certainty, regardless of whether the sport is baseball, basketball, football or soccer...
When it comes to the first three, I don't know enough of the intricacies of the game to know whether you are full of it or not.
However, I know the game of soccer and have been following it forever so I know when a post is full of it or not and your posts demonstrate that you do not understand what you are watching - yet, you continually post as if you do.
And that is why I have a problem with you.
I found it amusing that it took DeGrozz about two posts to recognize it also...
IthacaMatt
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Fewer and fewer "old" European-based players are coming to MLS. Teams are now using their designated player money for younger guys, mostly from Central and South American countries.
Chip
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Ice hockey. Come on, who's with me?
The 7/8 year old division my son is playing in at the rink near our houses has 70 kids this year. Way more than I expected. Some of them are unbelievable players already.
IthacaMatt
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Let's stop messing around. We need an Italian coach to teach us defense and possession.
It all starts there. Without that foundation, no success is possible.
IthacaMatt
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Bayside44
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Yeah no, kids sports shouldn't have a 300 mile game radius. The old Big East had shorter commutes.
Just because I talk strongly doesn’t mean I think I am all knowing and always right.
That is just my style comes across and I don’t act like I am always right. Whenever I am wrong I eat it and don’t deny it when it’s proven to me.
I said DeGrozz knows more about the MLS than I do. I follow it very casually. I know a decent amount but nowhere near his level. I said my concerns which are the calendar and wage scale.
The league has improved but it still has ways to go to get to Liga MX.
All I want is for US Soccer to improve. Don’t care how just want it to happen.
The MLS IMO should be a league for the young players to get PT and the eye of Europe. As the wages paid won’t keep elite talent. The Designated player slots for 3 per team are nice but it’s impossible to build depth with the salaries of the MLS.
I rooted for Real Salt Lake years ago in the Champions League final and they got broken down by Monterey. Depth killed them.
MLS needs to up its cap and grow the game if it wants to get to Liga MX.
It’s going to take a lot to ever get it top 6 league in the world. Again I am no expert but know somewhat how things work.
IthacaMatt
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He played a ton of new players in the Gold Cup. Not an entirely fair criticism. I'm disappointed, too, but we need better coaching, and we need to show a bunch of the older guys the door.
That is good.
I would prefer to see the wages across the board brought up over Designated player slots.
The league has made strides but it’s still got ways to improve.
Does Rafa Beneitz have it still?
I think that guy is on his last major club chance at Newcastle.
If US soccer wanted a name he could be a guy.
I doubt any in demand coach in Europe will take the job.
Chip
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That's the best part.
Well, that, and watching it is 7 million times more fun than watching 7 and 8 year olds play baseball. (but I still do it, both spring and fall). Doing kid pitch this fall. Walk, wild pitch, wild pitch, wild pitch, score a run. Lather, rinse, repeat. Trying to keep them paying attention while playing the field is like trying to get Shafer to go for it on 4th down.
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