Utah...

[JeremyCuse]

What are you talking about? The ACC has a long term grant of rights. That’s the definition of stability. The ACC is the more stable conference and the one with all the more valuable sports programs and more prestigious college sports names. UCF? Kansas State? Cincinnati? Houston? Texas Tech? Baylor? These aren’t exactly cream of the crop universities.

The GOR is the only thing holding the conference together at this point, that's not the definition of stability that's a time bomb. Clemson and FSU are leaving, be it next year, 2026, 2028 or 2030 or till the very end of the GOR they are leaving. Once that happens Duke and UVA will be following behind as the B10 has coveted them for decades. An ACC without Clemson, FSU, UNC and UVA isn't sustainable and will implode on itself. If Utah wont come now you think they're gonna leave for the ACC when its top two fball programs have bolted?

The B12 has the less prestigious names and media markets now but it also doesn't have two of its top schools suing to leave the conference.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The GOR is the only thing holding the conference together at this point, that's not the definition of stability that's a time bomb. Clemson and FSU are leaving, be it next year, 2026, 2028 or 2030 or till the very end of the GOR they are leaving. Once that happens Duke and UVA will be following behind as the B10 has coveted them for decades. An ACC without Clemson, FSU, UNC and UVA isn't sustainable and will implode on itself. If Utah wont come now you think they're gonna leave for the ACC when its top two fball programs have bolted?

The B12 has the less prestigious names and media markets now but it also doesn't have two of its top schools suing to leave the conference.

In fairness the B12 doesn't even have two top schools in the first place. Otherwise they would have left already.

 

[JeremyCuse]

In fairness the B12 doesn't even have two top schools in the first place. Otherwise they would have left already.

No doubt but again your talking about perception and future stability. Once FSU, Clemson, UNC and UVA leave (and god knows who else) the B12 starts looking like the B10 in comparison to what's left in the ACC.

 

[Bayside44]

In fairness the B12 doesn't even have two top schools in the first place. Otherwise they would have left already.

The Big 12's viability is their mediocrity.

 

[Bayside44]

No doubt but again your talking about perception and future stability. Once FSU, Clemson, UNC and UVA leave (and god knows who else) the B12 starts looking like the B10 in comparison to what's left in the ACC.

Jeremy with all due respect everyone needs a landing spot and that's still very unclear.

Honestly with the changing landscapes in TV/ streaming etc you'd almost think the B1G / SEC will have to throw people overboard or else they'll collapse under their weight constantly adding schools.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Jeremy with all due respect everyone needs a landing spot and that's still very unclear.

Honestly with the changing landscapes in TV/ streaming etc you'd almost think the B1G / SEC will have to throw people overboard or else they'll collapse under their weight constantly adding schools.

Well I get your point but those main schools won't have an issue. Clemson and FSU won't have an issue getting a new home in the B10 or SEC ditto UVA and UNC. The B10 would take FSU if it meant getting UVA and UNC, they've wanted those two for years.

The B12 is unlikely to have the cache to add one of the big ACC schools but what they do have is the ability to offer a landing spot to those 2nd tier schools. Schools won't hesitate to bolt to the B12 because they don't want to edn up like Uconn and its fball program (check out their fball schedule this year) or its overall Athletic dept which is hemorrhaging money despite the bball success. Or Oregon State and Washington State who got left out and are now essentially irrelevant in the D1 landscape.

Barring something crazy happening it's pretty clear FSU and Clemson are leaving the ACC. Its not if but when. Once those two leave it will unfortunately create a domino effect as UNC and UVA won't stick around and are really the gems the B10 cover. Streaming and TV are constantly evolving but the SEC still just signed a massive new deal just last year with all those concerns being very relevant.

 

[Bayside44]

Well I get your point but those main schools won't have an issue. Clemson and FSU won't have an issue getting a new home in the B10 or SEC ditto UVA and UNC. The B10 would take FSU if it meant getting UVA and UNC, they've wanted those two for years.

The B12 is unlikely to have the cache to add one of the big ACC schools but what they do have is the ability to offer a landing spot to those 2nd tier schools. Schools won't hesitate to bolt to the B12 because they don't want to edn up like Uconn and its fball program (check out their fball schedule this year) or its overall Athletic dept which is hemorrhaging money despite the bball success. Or Oregon State and Washington State who got left out and are now essentially irrelevant in the D1 landscape.

Barring something crazy happening it's pretty clear FSU and Clemson are leaving the ACC. Its not if but when. Once those two leave it will unfortunately create a domino effect as UNC and UVA won't stick around and are really the gems the B10 cover. Streaming and TV are constantly evolving but the SEC still just signed a massive new deal just last year with all those concerns being very relevant.

The Big 12's FOX contract is up in what, 2030? I cannot imagine anyone going there before then. The money between the two conferences depending on who you listen to is fairly comparable.

 

[JeremyCuse]

The Big 12's FOX contract is up in what, 2030? I cannot imagine anyone going there before then. The money between the two conferences depending on who you listen to is fairly comparable.

No one's bolting from the ACC until is starts to come apart from FSU and Clemson leaving. The ACC remains the better conference that's clear as day but from a future and stability standpoint it's nearly impossible to say its in better shape then the B12. If FSU and Clemson are still in the conference by 2030 (I think it's unlikely) maybe they make a play for multiple B12 teams when their contract is up but six years is a lifetime in realignment and I suspect some sort of agreement will be reached with FSU and Clemson and they and others will have bolted already.

 

[orangecuse]

Well I get your point but those main schools won't have an issue. Clemson and FSU won't have an issue getting a new home in the B10 or SEC ditto UVA and UNC. The B10 would take FSU if it meant getting UVA and UNC, they've wanted those two for years.

The B12 is unlikely to have the cache to add one of the big ACC schools but what they do have is the ability to offer a landing spot to those 2nd tier schools. Schools won't hesitate to bolt to the B12 because they don't want to edn up like Uconn and its fball program (check out their fball schedule this year) or its overall Athletic dept which is hemorrhaging money despite the bball success. Or Oregon State and Washington State who got left out and are now essentially irrelevant in the D1 landscape.

Barring something crazy happening it's pretty clear FSU and Clemson are leaving the ACC. Its not if but when. Once those two leave it will unfortunately create a domino effect as UNC and UVA won't stick around and are really the gems the B10 cover. Streaming and TV are constantly evolving but the SEC still just signed a massive new deal just last year with all those concerns being very relevant.

A great poster whom used to post here, 'A...,' was the best in the biz here on this stuff IMO. All along he repeatedly stated that the two schools that hold the key to the ACC's kingdom and staying together were UNC & UVA. These two schools are clearly the cream of the crop, gems, etc. that both the B1G and SEC covet like beautiful babes covet Rock Stars.

 

[HtownOrange]

In the live sports arena, 12 years is a long time. ESPN has likely placed its marker down by advising against the addition of Utah as it has a smallish market and only recent success.

No Big 12 team offers sufficient revenue to warrant addition to the ACC, except for any that may be in secret discussions.

Iowa St., OK St., BYU are second fiddles in smallish states.

Baylor, TCU, TTU, Houston are repeat markets and place at best third and likely lower. UT and TAMU are a massive chasm from the others. (This includes SMU)

WVU is a smallish state.

AZ State and UofA duplicate a small to mid size state. Colorado is another really to mid size state. Kansas and K State are a duplicates ina small state, though Kansas possesses hoops chops.

UCF is at best fourth in FL, plus the ACC has UM and FSU. Not even close.

Cincy offers a larger state but lacks the academic chops and the substantive athletic history and draw (Yes, tOSU is likely to blame for this but it will not change soon, the State makes sure of it).

If any of these teams is viable for the ACC, ESPN would provide the data...and may have. Any ACC team moving to the Big 12 would be a gain. Even WF and BC, both solid markets and some history.

Recall that any new additions must add value to the ACC and to ESPN, who actually writes the checks.

Time will tell, but in this moment, ESPN is not jumping to approve a marginal or worse team moving to the ACC. Marginal being defined as a offering close to value of the ACC teams.

Besides, once the FSU BOT starts paying legal bills regularly with no success and no end in site, the case will be resolved amicably and FSU stays home until the end. The ACC has no need to compromise and ESPN has no incentive to compromise.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think some of you are basing what you think you know about the state of Utah on perceptions you had as a kid of Utah being some kind of remote western outpost.

Utah is one of the fastest growing states in the US. The state economy is strong and resilient and in addition to ski tourism has a thriving tech industry. A Utah based ownership group headed by Ryan Smith, owner of the Jazz and former CEO at Qualtrics, just acquired the Coyotes and is bringing the NHL to Utah, and they also have very transparent plans to be a player for MLB team acquisition/expansion. Utah is a market on the rise, and rising rapidly.

The U of U's athletic tradition is nothing to scoff at either. Granted, I live very close to both BYU and the U of U, but a bunch of the assessments of Utah in this thread are just... wrong.

 

[Toga]

I think some of you are basing what you think you know about the state of Utah on perceptions you had as a kid of Utah being some kind of remote western outpost.

Utah is one of the fastest growing states in the US. The state economy is strong and resilient and in addition to ski tourism has a thriving tech industry. A Utah based ownership group headed by Ryan Smith, owner of the Jazz and former CEO at Qualtrics, just acquired the Coyotes and is bringing the NHL to Utah, and they also have very transparent plans to be a player for MLB team acquisition/expansion. Utah is a market on the rise, and rising rapidly.

The U of U's athletic tradition is nothing to scoff at either. Granted, I live very close to both BYU and the U of U, but a bunch of the assessments of Utah in this thread are just... wrong.

Utah and Cincinnati are the two biggest out of the blue successes in college football over the past 10-15 years.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Well I get your point but those main schools won't have an issue. Clemson and FSU won't have an issue getting a new home in the B10 or SEC ditto UVA and UNC. The B10 would take FSU if it meant getting UVA and UNC, they've wanted those two for years.

The B12 is unlikely to have the cache to add one of the big ACC schools but what they do have is the ability to offer a landing spot to those 2nd tier schools. Schools won't hesitate to bolt to the B12 because they don't want to edn up like Uconn and its fball program (check out their fball schedule this year) or its overall Athletic dept which is hemorrhaging money despite the bball success. Or Oregon State and Washington State who got left out and are now essentially irrelevant in the D1 landscape.

Barring something crazy happening it's pretty clear FSU and Clemson are leaving the ACC. Its not if but when. Once those two leave it will unfortunately create a domino effect as UNC and UVA won't stick around and are really the gems the B10 cover. Streaming and TV are constantly evolving but the SEC still just signed a massive new deal just last year with all those concerns being very relevant.

UNC is leaving also and Miami wont be far behind, football drives revenue. The question is whats left after the musical chairs and who will be in the minor leagues like UCONN, Oregon State, Temple, etc. I guess if we end up in the minor leagues (we will be fine for BB), how excited will we be playing USF, Temple, UCONN, Army, etc….and we will have to finish in 1st place to have a shot at a NC. What I don’t fully understand is ESPN letting the ACC die as they will lose market share to FOX and also pay teams more who jump to the SEC? Also don’t understand how NW, Rutgers, Vandy have a seat at the table.

 

[StLouisCuse]

Utah being added seemed far fetched to me to begin with for a number of reasons all of which were on Utah's end but it would have made a lot of sense for the ACC so I hope they kicked the tires. It's sad to say but the B12 is the more stable conference right now, ACC just doesn't appear to have any real shot at a long term future.

stop it. the money now (and in the intermediate term) favors the acc. that's what matters.

 

[JeremyCuse]

stop it. the money now (and in the intermediate term) favors the acc. that's what matters.

The difference between the ACC and B12 deals is relatively small especially compared to the gap between what the SEC and B10 teams are pulling in. Again though, the current deal is irrelevant to the long term future of the two conferences as I've pointed out.

 

[HtownOrange]

I think some of you are basing what you think you know about the state of Utah on perceptions you had as a kid of Utah being some kind of remote western outpost.

Utah is one of the fastest growing states in the US. The state economy is strong and resilient and in addition to ski tourism has a thriving tech industry. A Utah based ownership group headed by Ryan Smith, owner of the Jazz and former CEO at Qualtrics, just acquired the Coyotes and is bringing the NHL to Utah, and they also have very transparent plans to be a player for MLB team acquisition/expansion. Utah is a market on the rise, and rising rapidly.

The U of U's athletic tradition is nothing to scoff at either. Granted, I live very close to both BYU and the U of U, but a bunch of the assessments of Utah in this thread are just... wrong.

U.S. States ranked by population: which is largest? | Britannica

As of 2023, the United States was the world’s third most-populated country, with more than 335,000,000 people. The U.S. state with the largest population is California, which has some 39,000,000 residents. Second is Texas, with more than 30,000,000. Several states have less than 1,000,000 people,

www.britannica.com

Utah ranks #30 in state population with 3.6 million residents. Oklahoma ranks #28 with 4 million plus. Both states qualify as small population states.

On the bright side, Utah is NOT WV and has twice as many people. Plus, no one has heard of Utah burning couches after football games.

Your points are probably what would make a conference want to investigate UU, but may not be sufficient for ESPN to want to pay a lot for them. Plus, they split with BYU in Utah with essentially no following outside the state.

 

[NJCuse97]

Sounds like exactly what someone looking at the ACC would say.

I'm joking.

I think.

“The Big12 is our dream conference” Utah AD Doug Marrone

 

[Hoo's That]

U.S. States ranked by population: which is largest? | Britannica

As of 2023, the United States was the world’s third most-populated country, with more than 335,000,000 people. The U.S. state with the largest population is California, which has some 39,000,000 residents. Second is Texas, with more than 30,000,000. Several states have less than 1,000,000 people,

www.britannica.com

Utah ranks #30 in state population with 3.6 million residents. Oklahoma ranks #28 with 4 million plus. Both states qualify as small population states.

On the bright side, Utah is NOT WV and has twice as many people. Plus, no one has heard of Utah burning couches after football games.

Your points are probably what would make a conference want to investigate UU, but may not be sufficient for ESPN to want to pay a lot for them. Plus, they split with BYU in Utah with essentially no following outside the state.

As long as they don't burn couches, key the side of your car, or throw stuff at you, Utah and its fans are quite welcome.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

As long as they don't burn couches, key the side of your car, or throw stuff at you, Utah and its fans are quite welcome.

That's a normal day in Morgantown during the offseason.

 

[JuiceMeUp]

A great poster whom used to post here, 'A...,' was the best in the biz here on this stuff IMO. All along he repeatedly stated that the two schools that hold the key to the ACC's kingdom and staying together were UNC & UVA. These two schools are clearly the cream of the crop, gems, etc. that both the B1G and SEC covet like beautiful babes covet Rock Stars.

Can someone explain the fascination with UVA to me like I'm 5...I don't doubt it's true I just don't understand at all why that's the case

 

[Hoo's That]

Can someone explain the fascination with UVA to me like I'm 5...I don't doubt it's true I just don't understand at all why that's the case

The real prize is UNC. The story has been that UNC and UVa are a package deal. Except for our squash team, every UVa varsity athlete has a counterpart at UNC (Duke, too) and vice versa. UVa and UNC have played forever in everything. UNC knows that there is limited interest in Duke because it's a small private school with a limited audience.

Then there's this. Some of the best academics for a state school (the academics at other places like to hang out with top academics), really good Olympic sports (34 NCAA championships excluding b-ball), decent basketball that usually earns shares of the NCAA TV money, high likelihood of a win in football for the bluebloods, and a goodly portion of DC-area TVs.

 

[orangecuse]

Can someone explain the fascination with UVA to me like I'm 5...I don't doubt it's true I just don't understand at all why that's the case

How about like you're 2.



I think Hoo's That is being somewhat humble relative to his UNC's "real prize" remark as UVA is right there as well. Not that this plays any role, but both UNC & UVA are stunning campuses to boot.