Va Tech Thoughts...

[IthacaMatt]

Except for the 3 years prior to this one.

Woody played a few games at the 2 and was terrific.

 

[djcon57]

That’s not the point. The point is how can we make that bet without the critical info of actually knowing and interacting with them daily and in practice?

The staff is juggling the same game data (prob better) and has reams of practice data and years of experience evaluating but also has the insight into the actual player and what makes them tick.

I’m ok in making judgments on the internet based on my limited knowledge and access to smaller data sets but *must* acknowledge the other stuff

I could accept this more if we weren't sold the same bill of goods 2 years ago, which resulted in what it did. I could probably find the same post as above, just switch the names.

I don't believe players like not starting behind players that they are better than...just as a general rule.

TBF, I can accept the point you are making. I'm sure there's more to it than "Bell starts because he's the best option"

 

[Red Holzman]

Of course "the players like winning", but various groupings of these guys played together in AAU ball or in HS / Prep. Friends want friends to play well. Nobody wants to feel that their opportunity here is over, especially when they're all in their first or second year, for the most part. That's what I'm talking about.

If your perspective is that Benny owns his starting spot, I'm fine with that -just see it differently.
Would Benny consider losing his starting position as his opportunity here being over?
Maybe losing his starting position lights a fire under Benny, and builds character.
If it causes Benny and friends to feel he was done wrong, so be it.
Can't allow that to hold Good Basketball hostage.

Last night, the Hot Lineup reeled me back in from the sad road to complete apathy.
Want more.

 

[JDubbin]

Late to the game on this one... I was traveling back from a work conference in Minnesota to Ohio during the game & wasn't able to watch. Just finished now.

This game was a little different for me, I know Grant Basile on VT personally. I gave him a little text trash talk today, he really enjoyed the atmosphere/experience of playing in the Dome.

I loved it, because I thought he really played well AND Syracuse got the double digit win. The outcome couldn't have been better for me! Grant's skill set matches up well against the zone, that weak side baseline spot was perfect for him... it was really fun to see him excel.

No thoughts on game play, the Orange played well over all... my favorite highlight was just seeing Copeland absolutely THRIVING on the bench/sideline, looks like he's living his best life & it's awesome. Super encouraging for his teammates as well. Just a good, solid win for the squad last night!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Two things, A) he doesn't collect many rebounds. When he does, it's noticeable. B) it's because he's starting every game and a much better player is coming off the bench. Brown is earning more minutes of late and he's not disappointing. But when decisions don't make sense on the surface, people question the decision making.

People had the same issues with Bell when Maliq wasn't playing.

 

[Oakland]

What do we have to lose? A good foundation that we’re building this year to hopefully be much better next season. I’m not saying I believe that’s a great plan, but I imagine the staff is operating with that mindset. I also suspect they believe they could lose a player or two and will have to mine the portal or get a 2024 kid to reclassify or land a decommit.

Talking about that - the entire team could be back next season!

 

[Oakland]

Woody played a few games at the 2 and was terrific.

Woody was a big loss; i dont care what he did after he left.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Would Benny consider losing his starting position as his opportunity here being over?
Maybe losing his starting position lights a fire under Benny, and builds character.
If it causes Benny and friends to feel he was done wrong, so be it.
Can't allow that to hold Good Basketball hostage.

He might be inspired to play better. He attacked the defensive boards when he first came in with about 8 minutes to go in the 2nd half.

My point is that Boeheim's past benchings and post-game comments have chased kids away. A lot of them in recent years. Not all were going to be stars, sure, but they had been plugged into our system and were learning to contribute. I hate to lose kids after you begin to see some actual development from them.

Benny's getting every chance. Bell is getting every chance. If this had been a couple years ago, neither one might have played again after about the 3rd or 4th game.

But schools send players to schools, and expect that their kids will get a fair chance. When you get kids from big programs or prep schools or AAU clubs, you want that kid to succeed, because then you have a better chance of getting the next really good kid from their program, because the last guy did so well here.

That's how it works. I don't feel like Benny "owns" a spot, certainly not compared to certain guys in recent seasons past. But Benny, Judah and Taylor all played together in AAU, and Taylor and Copeland both played at IMG.

When we had a couple guys have bad experiences from Oak Hill, we stopped getting as many guys from there. But then we also had that group from Team Final (?) that had Rakeem Christmas, Cooney and MCW, something like that. Maybe another guy, too.

Groups of guys want to play together, and they want to see each guy get to contribute. That's what keeps guys from going in the portal. They feel like part of the group, and that they have a fair chance to contribute.

 

[Red Holzman]

He might be inspired to play better. He attacked the defensive boards when he first came in with about 8 minutes to go in the 2nd half.

My point is that Boeheim's past benchings and post-game comments have chased kids away. A lot of them in recent years. Not all were going to be stars, sure, but they had been plugged into our system and were learning to contribute. I hate to lose kids after you begin to see some actual development from them.

Benny's getting every chance. Bell is getting every chance. If this had been a couple years ago, neither one might have played again after about the 3rd or 4th game.

But schools send players to schools, and expect that their kids will get a fair chance. When you get kids from big programs or prep schools or AAU clubs, you want that kid to succeed, because then you have a better chance of getting the next really good kid from their program, because the last guy did so well here.

That's how it works. I don't feel like Benny "owns" a spot, certainly not compared to certain guys in recent seasons past. But Benny, Judah and Taylor all played together in AAU, and Taylor and Copeland both played at IMG.

When we had a couple guys have bad experiences from Oak Hill, we stopped getting as many guys from there. But then we also had that group from Team Final (?) that had Rakeem Christmas, Cooney and MCW, something like that. Maybe another guy, too.

Groups of guys want to play together, and they want to see each guy get to contribute. That's what keeps guys from going in the portal. They feel like part of the group, and that they have a fair chance to contribute.

I understand your perspective regarding the importance of keeping pipelines open-
Debatable part: what defines "fair chance".
As you said, Benny's getting every chance -still starting halfway through his soph season though continuing to struggle to fulfill his projected potential (and some bad behavior last night).
What a dilemma -how long should an under-performing player be allowed to keep a starting position on the basis of preserving a pipeline, while a proven better option who ultimately may have a higher ceiling sits behind him? At what point is that player/pipeline holding the team's success hostage?
I think it's fair for JB to tell Benny we need to get out of the blocks better, and therefore Maliq is going to start while Benny still gets reasonable run. As others noted, maybe time at the 3 also.
Of course the other option is to keep starting Benny with a quick hook, but could go over worse.
If you don't think Benny owns his spot, curious regarding at what point you'd consider moving Maliq to starting 4 -if ever?
I'm ready for that now, but interested in and respect other perspectives.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I understand your perspective regarding the importance of keeping pipelines open-
Debatable part: what defines "fair chance".
As you said, Benny's getting every chance -still starting halfway through his soph season though continuing to struggle to fulfill his projected potential (and some bad behavior last night).
What a dilemma -how long should an under-performing player be allowed to keep a starting position on the basis of preserving a pipeline, while a proven better option who ultimately may have a higher ceiling sits behind him? At what point is that player/pipeline holding the team's success hostage?
I think it's fair for JB to tell Benny we need to get out of the blocks better, and therefore Maliq is going to start while Benny still gets reasonable run. As others noted, maybe time at the 3 also.
Of course the other option is to keep starting Benny with a quick hook, but could go over worse.
If you don't think Benny owns his spot, curious regarding at what point you'd consider moving Maliq to starting 4 -if ever?
I'm ready for that now, but interested in and respect other perspectives.

Well, I think it was pretty clear when Maliq Brown started the second half, and he and Taylor got most of the game time over Benny and Bell that Benny has to produce, or his minutes will go to someone else who will play defense, rebound, and make the smart play. Benny has had a few good games. He just has to keep bringing the effort, and play closer to the rim, like Brown does.

 

[Red Holzman]

Well, I think it was pretty clear when Maliq Brown started the second half, and he and Taylor got most of the game time over Benny and Bell that Benny has to produce, or his minutes will go to someone else who will play defense, rebound, and make the smart play. Benny has had a few good games. He just has to keep bringing the effort, and play closer to the rim, like Brown does.

Yes Benny obviously lost minutes to Maliq due to lack of production-
I asked about when you'd start Maliq over Benny, which is what I'd like to see.
You didn't answer that -are you saying that game should be the model going forward?
SU isn't good enough to stumble out of the gate against good teams then hope the subs help recover.
What we think doesn't matter, but good topic for fans to share perspectives on.

 

[Sherman20]

Talking about that - the entire team could be back next season!

With maybe one or two subtractions and then higher level additions, that would be ideal. Jesse and Judah coming back would be huge.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yes Benny obviously lost minutes to Maliq due to lack of production-
I asked about when you'd start Maliq over Benny, which is what I'd like to see.
You didn't answer that -are you saying that game should be the model going forward?
SU isn't good enough to stumble out of the gate against good teams then hope the subs help recover.
What we think doesn't matter, but good topic for fans to share perspectives on.

I think Benny gives you more consistent production than either Bell or Taylor. Both of them are mostly shooters, and don't give you much more.

I said before the season even started that I figured Maliq Brown would start (or at least play a lot) because I didn't see any better rebounders or defenders among the other guys.

Benny just gave us 11 and 7, or something close to that, for the 6 games in December and the beginning of January. Neither Taylor, nor Bell (nor JBA, nor Quadir) are going to give us what Benny gave us just a couple games ago. You don't throw away all that progress.

That's my thinking.

If Benny doesn't play hard, he shouldn't last past the 4 minute media time out, and then we get a shooter into the game.

 

[IthacaMatt]

With maybe one or two subtractions and then higher level additions, that would be ideal. Jesse and Judah coming back would be huge.

There's nobody in this group I would want to see go, honestly.

I don't see Judah going anywhere yet. The press loves him, but we could have a much better year next year, and he still has a lot of areas that he can improve his draft stock.

Jesse, Joe and Symir are all seniors, right? Or are you saying they could take a "COVID year" and come back? I don't really know the rules about that.

The only one I really see who might want to return could be Jesse, if he doesn't get great feedback from the scouts. Or he might just move to the Netherlands with his girlfriend and start earning money. Based on our recent history, it would be kind of a miracle if Jesse is back, IMO.

Mounir Hima is a solid defensive center. He could give us 20 minutes a game next year. We'd obviously need someone who can present a low post threat on offense. Peter Carey's knee surgery probably rules him out of serious rotation consideration for next year.

So, I guess we have to look for another portal center. I'd like to see one of those 6-8 or 6-9 stretch four type of guys, but stocky enough at 230 or 240, so he won't get pushed all over the court by opposing big men.

I like our rotation of forwards, and think they all have room to improve and be contributors. I guess that out of 5 or 6 guys, we might lose one or two, or we might move a guy or two to improve the depth at guard.

I think we also have to get a real shooter / combo guy at the 2, to replace Joe's production, and to also help open up the floor for Judah. I don't think Taylor will be our starting 2 guard next year, but if we don't get anyone better, he very well might wind up as the guy.

If we can add 2 pieces like that from the portal (an offensive center who can give us a solid 8 and 6, and a 2G who can hit 35% from three and also get to the rim), this could be a very solid team next year. I would even say a "back in the tournament" team.

 

[TheCusian]

I think JB should start and play the guys that give us the best chance to win the game and have the guys who are not as good and productive play less minutes when the other guys need a breather.

Do you want me to list out PERs, WS/40, BPM, Assist %s, Rebound %s, etc again?

I've been doing this for a while now and people take it as an affront to their own family for some reason while we keep having medicore and bad years.

This is not hard. There are HS kids that can literally do these calculations now. LITERALLY.

Anyone saying Bell should start wants us to lose.

Agreed. Any HS kid could become a coach! Look at the numbers, play who gets the winz. Thats all there is to it

its not an affront to one’s family, it’s an affront to the coaching profession

there are countless examples of coaches who wanted the best player by the stats traded and then had more success after the player left… players are not robots to be deployed based on efficiency metrics, but humans with personalities and skills/talents that need development. Great coaching requires that you deal w the full human to achieve maximum effectiveness … that’s why it’s so hard that lots of people suck at it

 

[kirbivore]

There's nobody in this group I would want to see go, honestly.

I don't see Judah going anywhere yet. The press loves him, but we could have a much better year next year, and he still has a lot of areas that he can improve his draft stock.

Jesse, Joe and Symir are all seniors, right? Or are you saying they could take a "COVID year" and come back? I don't really know the rules about that.

The only one I really see who might want to return could be Jesse, if he doesn't get great feedback from the scouts. Or he might just move to the Netherlands with his girlfriend and start earning money. Based on our recent history, it would be kind of a miracle if Jesse is back, IMO.

Mounir Hima is a solid defensive center. He could give us 20 minutes a game next year. We'd obviously need someone who can present a low post threat on offense. Peter Carey's knee surgery probably rules him out of serious rotation consideration for next year.

So, I guess we have to look for another portal center. I'd like to see one of those 6-8 or 6-9 stretch four type of guys, but stocky enough at 230 or 240, so he won't get pushed all over the court by opposing big men.

I like our rotation of forwards, and think they all have room to improve and be contributors. I guess that out of 5 or 6 guys, we might lose one or two, or we might move a guy or two to improve the depth at guard.

I think we also have to get a real shooter / combo guy at the 2, to replace Joe's production, and to also help open up the floor for Judah. I don't think Taylor will be our starting 2 guard next year, but if we don't get anyone better, he very well might wind up as the guy.

If we can add 2 pieces like that from the portal (an offensive center who can give us a solid 8 and 6, and a 2G who can hit 35% from three and also get to the rim), this could be a very solid team next year. I would even say a "back in the tournament" team.

I agree about Judah. I know nbadraft.net is not the end all be all but it's good for a 30,000 foot view. Judah is not on there as of 1/12/23.

NBA Mock Draft - NBADraft.net

Specializing in drafts with top players on the NBA horizon, player profiles, scouting reports, rankings and prospective international recruits.

www.nbadraft.net

 

[OrangeDW]

I agree about Judah. I know nbadraft.net is not the end all be all but it's good for a 30,000 foot view. Judah is not on there as of 1/12/23.

NBA Mock Draft - NBADraft.net

Specializing in drafts with top players on the NBA horizon, player profiles, scouting reports, rankings and prospective international recruits.

www.nbadraft.net

I’m interested to know if there’s a guard in the NBA that is shooting 17% from 3.

Somehow I doubt it.

 

[721Comstock]

I’m interested to know if there’s a guard in the NBA that is shooting 17% from 3.

Somehow I doubt it.

Is Rajon Rondo still playing?

Ok - I just checked, WOW, he’s improved his 3 ball quite a bit since his Celtics days.

Back then he was always in the 20-something % range from 3.
He’s now up over 32% for his career.

Does Ben Simmons count?
He’s shot 14% from 3 for his career.