Va Tech Thoughts...

[Cusefan0307]

KenPom has Girard as a better defensive rebounder than Bell. In no world should that be the case.

Bell is a worse rebounder than Buddy Boeheim and Tyus Battle and those guys were notorious for having 2 rebounds a game in marathon minutes.

 

[MikeSU02]

Bell and Taylor should both play about twenty minutes a game. They combined for 16 points and four threes last night. I’d take that every game.

No.

Bell isn't productive just because he hit two three pointers.

That type of thinking is why we've been on a very long skid.

 

[MikeSU02]

Bell is a worse rebounder than Buddy Boeheim and Tyus Battle and those guys were notorious for having 2 rebounds a game in marathon minutes.

Anyone that wants to still start Bell is fine with losing, period.

 

[swish7]

What is his deal with Donna? He went out of his way to be a jerk to her last night. Her question was totally innocuous.

I still remember Donna from 1987. My HS football team was going to the Dome for the playoffs and she showed up at our campus to interview our coach. I remember exiting the locker room and the coach happily saying her name: 'Donna, Donna, Donna, how ya doing?' She must have been young! Seemed nice.

Why he would be mean to someone that has been around that long and in such a small community is beyond me.

 

[MikeSU02]

So you think Boeheim should play his 5 best players 40 minutes? Or sub for 2 minutes to give the starter a break? Or in case of foul trouble? From what your saying, Benny and Bell are going to be negatives whenever they're on the floor.

I think JB should start and play the guys that give us the best chance to win the game and have the guys who are not as good and productive play less minutes when the other guys need a breather.

Do you want me to list out PERs, WS/40, BPM, Assist %s, Rebound %s, etc again?

I've been doing this for a while now and people take it as an affront to their own family for some reason while we keep having medicore and bad years.

This is not hard. There are HS kids that can literally do these calculations now. LITERALLY.

Anyone saying Bell should start wants us to lose.

 

[cusefan88]

Benny should come off the bench. He puts so much on himself to play well and he always seems so tense. Maybe starting from the bench would relax him?

 

[MikeSU02]

KenPom has Girard as a better defensive rebounder than Bell. In no world should that be the case.

Joe is a much better rebounder than Bell. It's not close.

You want to take a look at all the assist %s, rebound %s, PERs, etc? I mean, Bell is our worst forward. It's staring us in the face. The numbers literally match the eye test.

 

[VA2NY]

Exactly! Much rather keep Brown and JT happy especially in the long run. Seem like two team guys who just play hard and do what it takes to win. They’ve waited patiently for their turn and it seems like they’ve earned the playing time over Bell and Benny. Both are from Virginia. Can you imagine if they became frustrated and left Syracuse to go to Va. Tech or UVA? That would

Really not sure what gets Taylor put in the same category as Brown. As of now it seems more like Brown is Mr. 4 while its still a battle for who is worthy of mins between Taylor Benny and Bell. They are all flawed in ways where one does not separate too far from the others.

One thing that the people in the pro Taylor crowd have to acknowledge is this. He. Also. Does. Not. Get. Boards. He has been playing more mins than Bell these last 5 games and has the same meager board numbers. I like Taylor the best now because he looks the best in the zone and limits the bonehead plays compared to Benny and Bell (way less turnovers). But he is equally poor on the glass for a 3 and has similar limits to his offensive game. Brown is the only one of our forwards where I think it would be foolish not to play him. Taylor? Good, probably the best right now, but more like Bell and Benny than people are saying. Bell would be getting trashed to no end if he got 2 boards in 29 mins.

I agree statistically Taylor doesn’t get a lot of rebounds. Brown is by far the best rebounding forward we have. BUT in Taylor’s defense he will mix it up inside (and has the body to do it) and at least makes an effort to get the rebound. I noticed the last couple games a lot of times while he doesn’t end up with the ball someone on our team does because he has boxed out his guy. Against UVA one time he boxed out shedrick and Shedrick picked up his 4th. I think where JB has a problem with Bell’s rebounding is the effort or lack there of. He stands and watches rather than pursues rebounds.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Joe is a much better rebounder than Bell. It's not close.

You want to take a look at all the assist %s, rebound %s, PERs, etc? I mean, Bell is our worst forward. It's staring us in the face. The numbers literally match the eye test.

Oh I'm not saying I don't believe KenPom, more that someone of Bell's athletic profile should not be getting outrebounded by our 6'1" guard. Bell also has the same number of free throw attempts as Torrence in around 50% more minutes.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Taylor is also a worse rebounder than Girard or Battle or Buddy or whoever else. I am taking crazy pills seeing these people point to Bells rebounds as an argument without acknowledging that the guy they want to replace him with is equally poor in that category. I am not trying to be a Chris Bell worshipper here. He is struggling in some areas and Taylor is looking better right now. Just please lose that part of your argument when talking about the two. It is so weak.

 

[Jake]

Anyone that wants to still start Bell is fine with losing, period.

Disagree.

Benching Bell or Benny at this point risks losing them mentally for the rest of the season.

I think only the staff knows how great that risk is. We’re going to need them at some point this year. We’re not that talented that we can toss players aside and plug in someone else.

The fact that JB waited until 2nd semester to make the change to Brown tells me his thinks the risk of transferring/discontent is significant.

Fab Melo kept starting for a reason his frosh year.

 

[UpstateSM]

Anyone that wants to still start Bell is fine with losing, period.

I follow two college basketball teams very closely. Both start lineups that are absolutely not their best group and both teams are consistently digging themselves out of holes from the first 5 or so minutes of games.

I used be fine with the “it’s not who starts, it’s who finishes” adage but when we are constantly clawing back from deficits to start games it 1000% matters who is on the court when the game starts.

That doesn’t mean that Bell isn’t good or that we want him to transfer. It just means that we don’t have enough high end talent to overcome avoidable bad starts to games all of the time.

 

[upperdeck]

I think it’s because he sees a very different Benny at practice. JB has said numerous times how he’s their best forward day in and day out at practice but it’s not converting to consistency in games. JB is frustrated, Benny is frustrated. JB has been very honest saying that they point out in films where he will just watch during games instead of aggressively going after rebounds, like he does in practice. JB sees the effort Benny makes in practice and definitely hasn’t given up on him.

must be much easier to go after rebounds in our practices considering how bad most of our forwards are at it.

 

[VA2NY]

That could work. I do think some aspect of managing playing time this year has an eye on developing the team for next year and returning an experienced group of players who could really do something.

The problem with that is Benny isn’t really a three and as JB has said repeatedly Benny shouldn’t be trying to shoot outside. So with that lineup you’re limiting the outside threat you have with Bell and Taylor

 

[OrangeDW]

No.

Bell isn't productive just because he hit two three pointers.

That type of thinking is why we've been on a very long skid.

Right. Somebody scores on every team. Pick the worst teams out there and they’re not scoring that many fewer points than anyone else.

 

[MikeSU02]

Disagree.

Benching Bell or Benny at this point risks losing them mentally for the rest of the season.

I think only the staff knows how great that risk is. We’re going to need them at some point this year. We’re not that talented that we can toss players aside and plug in someone else.

The fact that JB waited until 2nd semester to make the change to Brown tells me his thinks the risk of transferring/discontent is significant.

Fab Melo kept starting for a reason his frosh year.

I mean, JB is going to be held hostage by bad and mediocre players?

Fab Melo was a McD AA and a DPOY type player on upside.

Benny and Bell are not.

We've been bad because of starting these types of players while the world zooms by us.

 

[VA2NY]

I follow two college basketball teams very closely. Both start lineups that are absolutely not their best group and both teams are consistently digging themselves out of holes from the first 5 or so minutes of games.

I used be fine with the “it’s not who starts, it’s who finishes” adage but when we are constantly clawing back from deficits to start games it 1000% matters who is on the court when the game starts.

That doesn’t mean that Bell isn’t good or that we want him to transfer. It just means that we don’t have enough high end talent to overcome avoidable bad starts to games all of the time.

I watched Notre Dame the other day and for the first time they didn’t start JJ. They said he was fine with it because it put less pressure on him and he was able to watch the game and see things before he went in. He seemed to play much better

 

[MikeSU02]

I follow two college basketball teams very closely. Both start lineups that are absolutely not their best group and both teams are consistently digging themselves out of holes from the first 5 or so minutes of games.

I used be fine with the “it’s not who starts, it’s who finishes” adage but when we are constantly clawing back from deficits to start games it 1000% matters who is on the court when the game starts.

That doesn’t mean that Bell isn’t good or that we want him to transfer. It just means that we don’t have enough high end talent to overcome avoidable bad starts to games all of the time.

You're absolutely right, of course.

Those old adages like "it's not who starts, it's who finishes" is all coach speak that isn't couched in the best way to win games.

Again, there are high school kids that can calculate this kind of stuff now. It's a no brainer.

Bell wants to transfer? Benny? Let them go. We are a mediocre team right now during the next year in a string of mediocre or bad years. What do we have to lose?

 

[MikeSU02]

I mean, JB is going to be held hostage by bad and mediocre players?

Fab Melo was a McD AA and a DPOY type player on upside.

Benny and Bell are not.

We've been bad because of starting these types of players while the world zooms by us.

Also, to build on my response to Jake, just bc Maliq and JT are cool on the bench now, doesn't mean they will be moving forward.

We have to build looking forward.

So we have a petulant Benny, a net negative in Bell and we are dependent on Maliq and JT to NOT change their minds to have to sit behind those two and keep seeing the team improve when they are in the game?

No. Screw that. I want to win. I want to reward the guys that produce. Bell and Benny can earn back their spots, leave the team, whatever.

We are not a top 10 team. We are mediocre. We were bad last year. We have been bad or mediocre for a while. Why are we kowtowing to two guys that aren't bringing us raging success?

 

[VA2NY]

Taylor is also a worse rebounder than Girard or Battle or Buddy or whoever else. I am taking crazy pills seeing these people point to Bells rebounds as an argument without acknowledging that the guy they want to replace him with is equally poor in that category. I am not trying to be a Chris Bell worshipper here. He is struggling in some areas and Taylor is looking better right now. Just please lose that part of your argument when talking about the two. It is so weak.

Said this above…. agree statistically Taylor doesn’t get a lot of rebounds. BUT he does make an effort to get rebounds. He boxes out, he pursues the ball and he isn’t afraid to be physical and mix it up inside. Bell’s problem is the lack of rebounding EFFORT. He stands and watches rather than going for the ball.

 

[MikeSU02]

Said this above…. agree statistically Taylor doesn’t get a lot of rebounds. BUT he does make an effort to get rebounds. He boxes out, he pursues the ball and he isn’t afraid to be physical and mix it up inside. Bell’s problem is the lack of rebounding EFFORT. He stands and watches rather than going for the ball.

Taylor is better than him in RBD%, ASST%, TOV%, Steals% and Block%.

They are not equally poor.

At all.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Said this above…. agree statistically Taylor doesn’t get a lot of rebounds. BUT he does make an effort to get rebounds. He boxes out, he pursues the ball and he isn’t afraid to be physical and mix it up inside. Bell’s problem is the lack of rebounding EFFORT. He stands and watches rather than going for the ball.

I would be more inclined to agree about effort if it translated to Taylor getting significantly more boards than Bell. He simply doesn't. I think Taylor is better in the zone but these perceptions about effort on the boards, which I think is a tough call to make in the first place, would have more influence on me if it actually translated to him getting more boards than Bell. Taylor has played more than Bell in the last 5 games. Bell has 8 boards. Taylor has 9. It's just not a good argument. Argument for Taylor begins and ends with better more consistent play on defense and not turning the ball over IMO. Talk of Bells rebounding has to come with at least a mention that his fellow man at the 3 rebounds at the same pitiful rate.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Really not sure what gets Taylor put in the same category as Brown. As of now it seems more like Brown is Mr. 4 while its still a battle for who is worthy of mins between Taylor Benny and Bell. They are all flawed in ways where one does not separate too far from the others.

One thing that the people in the pro Taylor crowd have to acknowledge is this. He. Also. Does. Not. Get. Boards. He has been playing more mins than Bell these last 5 games and has the same meager board numbers. I like Taylor the best now because he looks the best in the zone and limits the bonehead plays compared to Benny and Bell (way less turnovers). But he is equally poor on the glass for a 3 and has similar limits to his offensive game. Brown is the only one of our forwards where I think it would be foolish not to play him. Taylor? Good, probably the best right now, but more like Bell and Benny than people are saying. Bell would be getting trashed to no end if he got 2 boards in 29 mins.

Completely disagree about ’similar limits to his offensive game.’ Bell doesn’t have half the dribbling ability as JT. That’s huge.

 

[MikeSU02]

I would be more inclined to agree about effort if it translated to Taylor getting significantly more boards than Bell. He simply doesn't. I think Taylor is better in the zone but these perceptions about effort on the boards, which I think is a tough call to make in the first place, would have more influence on me if it actually translated to him getting more boards than Bell. Taylor has played more than Bell in the last 5 games. Bell has 8 boards. Taylor has 9. It's just not a good argument. Argument for Taylor begins and ends with better more consistent play on defense and not turning the ball over IMO. Talk of Bells rebounding has to come with at least a mention that his fellow man at the 3 rebounds at the same pitiful rate.

What helps convince you?

JT beats him in: RBD%, ASST%, TOV%, Steals% and Block%, PER, WS/40 and BPM. He also does all this while having a usage rate 4 percentage points less than Bell.

This is not an argument.

 

[orangecuse]

Also, to build on my response to Jake, just bc Maliq and JT are cool on the bench now, doesn't mean they will be moving forward.

We have to build looking forward.

So we have a petulant Benny, a net negative in Bell and we are dependent on Maliq and JT to NOT change their minds to have to sit behind those two and keep seeing the team improve when they are in the game?

No. Screw that. I want to win. I want to reward the guys that produce. Bell and Benny can earn back their spots, leave the team, whatever.

We are not a top 10 team. We are mediocre. We were bad last year. We have been bad or mediocre for a while. Why are we kowtowing to two guys that aren't bringing us raging success?

Spot on.

JB, unfortunately, had set this precedent and disposition of his years ago. Starting Coleman at C, literally for a minute or two before yanking him. Waiters coming off the bench, and not starting, MCW, etc., etc. It worked back then as we had so much more talent, we could get away with it...that's far from the case today. I'm reminded of; "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" in regards to JB and his ways.