Va Tech Thoughts...

[Cusefan0307]

Spot on.

JB, unfortunately, had set this precedent and disposition of his years ago. Starting Coleman at C, literally for a minute or two before yanking him. Waiters coming off the bench, and not starting, MCW, etc. It worked back then as we had so much more talent, we could get away with it. That's far from the case today. But, I'm reminded of; "you can't teach an old dog new tricks."

You hit it when you said some of those guys started for one or two minutes like Rak, DC or Fab did. In Benny or Bell’s case they are rarely subbed out until the under 12.

In fact Jesse sat before either of them last night.

 

[kirbivore]

If he gets any more pie then he does now, Benny will be gone.

so be it

 

[orangecuse]

You hit it when you said some of those guys started for one or two minutes like Rak, DC or Fab did. In Benny or Bell’s case they are rarely subbed out until the under 12.

In fact Jesse sat before either of them last night.

Indeed. Unfortunately, with age, JB has only gotten increasingly stubborn in this regard.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Joe was so good he only got thrown under the bus just a few times in the game thread!

those heat checks are trash. eveything else was good.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Not sure what Jesse is supposed to do. If he plays up in the zone they dump it down to the guy running baseline for a layup

If he plays back, it’s a wide open shot from the FT line. Most teams are too stupid to exploit this.

not give up dunks layups should be number one priority imo...much rather give up an open 8 footer

 

[OrangeinDC]

Probably our best win of the season.
-Joe was excellent. Yes he took 4 to 6 ridiculous shots and I would rather he had gone 10 per 17 from the field instead of 10 for 20. But that is nitpicking and when he finally had somebody guarding him who he was bigger than he abused him. Just a terrific game for JG3 especially since he only had two turnovers.
-I also thought Judah did a better job taking care of the ball with only two turnovers. He has only had three assists but seemed to make more of an effort to get guys involved. Can’t have him missing those free throws though.
-again Jesse did not show up for the first half. His rebounding was much better in the second half but he missed a ton of easy baskets. It almost feels like he has the yips on offense right now.
-Maliq was is outstanding. Does the little things so well like save a bad pass towards the end of the game and throw it ahead for an assist. Can shoot nicely with both hands around the basket. Actually boxes out. Doesn’t take plays off. What’s amazing is many of us have been begging for this kid to get more time but somehow JB couldn’t see it. Must’ve been a lot of bad practices.
-Justin Taylor is so solid. An underrated aspect of his game is that he does not panic when pressured with the ball. Love his stroke but also was impressed by his one hand runner in the first half. I think he will be even better at the two because in the zone he has trouble rebounding against bigger players. But this is a kid who is a winner and will continue to improve with experience and more confidence to look for his shot.
-JB playes JBA for four minutes to start against Virginia and we have not seen him since. Just more evidence of the insanity of starting JBA over Brown or Taylor among others.
-ironic that Bell was injured rebounding. Everybody loves to rip this kid but I love his shot and I just wonder if he is simply playing out of position and could be a very effective two guard.
-Nice win. Can’t go backwards against Notre Dame.

I like Bell. I think he gets beat up quite a bit, but the kid clearly has game. I also think he's two guard really learning how to play 3. Maybe he shouldn't be a starter, and is clearly a poor rebounder (things he'll learn and can be taught) but he needs to play. He's a freshman, no way he's coming in here being the perfect player with no holes in his game. I think if we find situational balance between Taylor/Bell/Cope, we have a solid base foundation for the future.

I've been high on Maliq's potential for a while.

 

[IthacaMatt]

When qadir decides to make the easy play instead of the “cool looking” play, he’ll be a force. He’s quick with some legit size

I think he's been doing a little better in the last few games that he's played.
He's no longer "all hotdog, all the time." LOL And he hustles his butt off.
Good kid. Happy to have him on the team.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I like Bell. I think he gets beat up quite a bit, but the kid clearly has game. I also think he's two guard really learning how to play 3. Maybe he shouldn't be a starter, and is clearly a poor rebounder (things he'll learn and can be taught) but he needs to play. He's a freshman, no way he's coming in here being the perfect player with no holes in his game. I think if we find situational balance between Taylor/Bell/Cope, we have a solid base foundation for the future.

I've been high on Maliq's potential for a while.

A shooting guard who can only shoot and not do any of the other ‘guard’ things, like dribble.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I like Bell. I think he gets beat up quite a bit, but the kid clearly has game. I also think he's two guard really learning how to play 3. Maybe he shouldn't be a starter, and is clearly a poor rebounder (things he'll learn and can be taught) but he needs to play. He's a freshman, no way he's coming in here being the perfect player with no holes in his game. I think if we find situational balance between Taylor/Bell/Cope, we have a solid base foundation for the future.

I've been high on Maliq's potential for a while.

That's a good observation. He would probably fit better as a 2, and boy would he be tough at the top of the zone, not having to rebound so much.

 

[IthacaMatt]

A shooting guard who can only shoot and not do any of the other ‘guard’ things, like dribble.

And that's a fair point, too. But historically, we have played some guys at the 2 with limited ball handling skills. Just not for the whole game, and obviously not if we're pressed.

 

[VA2NY]

Spot on.

JB, unfortunately, had set this precedent and disposition of his years ago. Starting Coleman at C, literally for a minute or two before yanking him. Waiters coming off the bench, and not starting, MCW, etc., etc. It worked back then as we had so much more talent, we could get away with it...that's far from the case today. I'm reminded of; "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" in regards to JB and his ways.

JB could get by doing things that way back then. It’s a different environment now. While I agree it’s important who finishes games, it’s important to players to have the honor of starting. Getting starter’s minutes which JB often talks about isn’t the same as starting. JB always talks about players earning minutes and the starting spot minutes should be earned too.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I am usually tough on Joe due to his defense but VTs lack of 3-point shooting helped. Joe had one of his best games last night.

He did a lot of damage in the lane. He didn't over-dribble on his move, was more direct, quicker to shoot. Gave the D a little less time to adjust to his drive. Quicker decisions means fewer blocked shots. I think that was a big part of it last night.

 

[Red Holzman]

What happened to "play the players that give us the best chance to win"?
Has it come to this, starting two guys trying to learn how to play with proven better options on the bench, because they may not put on their Big Boy Pants and double-down their effort if pushed to the bench?
If Benny-Bell continue to start to "keep their confidence to reach their potential" or whatever the logic is, how does JB know he won't end up with the end result he's supposedly trying to avoid?
ie: Say the light bulb finally comes on for Benny after continuing to start: he finishes the season putting up big numbers and proves he can dominate a game.
In this new reality, why should JB think Benny would not entertain big NIL offers and vamoose?
Nothing gained!

Play the players that give us the best chance to WIN-
-let the NIL chips fall where they may.

 

[IthacaMatt]

What happened to "play the players that give us the best chance to win"?
Has it come to this, starting two guys trying to learn how to play with proven better options on the bench, because they may not put on their Big Boy Pants and double-down their effort if pushed to the bench?
If Benny-Bell continue to start to "keep their confidence to reach their potential" or whatever the logic is, how does JB know he won't end up with the end result he's supposedly trying to avoid?
ie: Say the light bulb finally comes on for Benny after continuing to start: he finishes the season putting up big numbers and proves he can dominate a game.
In this new reality, why should JB think Benny would not entertain big NIL offers and vamoose?
Nothing gained!

Play the players that give us the best chance to WIN-
-let the NIL chips fall where they may.

The only problem with that is managing the locker room, not just the game.
You have to give these kids a lot of chances to work things out.

I'm glad he's not giving up on young players so soon this year. He is honestly playing a lot of them, and most of you thought you'd never see that again. So, props to JB for that. And it has paid off.

Maybe some of these guys can't do these things every night, but if you play them enough to get comfortable, the good games will become more and more frequent.

 

[Red Holzman]

The only problem with that is managing the locker room, not just the game.
You have to give these kids a lot of chances to work things out.

I'm glad he's not giving up on young players so soon this year. He is honestly playing a lot of them, and most of you thought you'd never see that again. So, props to JB for that. And it has paid off.

Maybe some of these guys can't do these things every night, but if you play them enough to get comfortable, the good games will become more and more frequent.

In Benny's case, I wouldn't consider it giving up on a young player.
Benny has been given a starting role for 1-1/2 seasons. Subjective, but that's enough opportunity IMO.
Brown has proven that he has more hoops intuition, savvy, and skill in his pinky finger at this point.
I want to see good basketball and SU winning again -like we saw last night.
I want to see Maliq Brown.

The locker room is a mystery we can't know, but assume that these players like winning.
Maliq starting over Benny seems reasonable if they want to win.
Get the smooth-running components on the floor -enough grinding gears to dig a hole to start games.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It's funny though because when that happens to anyone other than Bell it's not noticed and nobody really cares.

On the other hand, Bell very frequently scores one of our first baskets if you check out our play by play.

We've got a weird infatuation with Bell on the board.

Two things, A) he doesn't collect many rebounds. When he does, it's noticeable. B) it's because he's starting every game and a much better player is coming off the bench. Brown is earning more minutes of late and he's not disappointing. But when decisions don't make sense on the surface, people question the decision making.

 

[CousCuse]

I follow two college basketball teams very closely. Both start lineups that are absolutely not their best group and both teams are consistently digging themselves out of holes from the first 5 or so minutes of games.

I used be fine with the “it’s not who starts, it’s who finishes” adage but when we are constantly clawing back from deficits to start games it 1000% matters who is on the court when the game starts.

That doesn’t mean that Bell isn’t good or that we want him to transfer. It just means that we don’t have enough high end talent to overcome avoidable bad starts to games all of the time.

You're saying you have more basketball coaching acumen than Frank Martin and Jim Boeheim, you don't think that sounds crazy?

 

[TheCusian]

Why risk Maliq and JT for Bell and Benny? Are you willing to make that bet?

That’s not the point. The point is how can we make that bet without the critical info of actually knowing and interacting with them daily and in practice?

The staff is juggling the same game data (prob better) and has reams of practice data and years of experience evaluating but also has the insight into the actual player and what makes them tick.

I’m ok in making judgments on the internet based on my limited knowledge and access to smaller data sets but *must* acknowledge the other stuff

 

[Newhouser]

And that's a fair point, too. But historically, we have played some guys at the 2 with limited ball handling skills. Just not for the whole game, and obviously not if we're pressed.

Except for the 3 years prior to this one.

 

[Sherman20]

No.

Bell isn't productive just because he hit two three pointers.

That type of thinking is why we've been on a very long skid.

A very long skid? We’ve won 8 of our past 10 games. Not entirely disagreeing with the points you’re arguing in this thread, just wanted to point out that we’ve been playing a bit better the past few weeks.

 

[Sherman20]

You're absolutely right, of course.

Those old adages like "it's not who starts, it's who finishes" is all coach speak that isn't couched in the best way to win games.

Again, there are high school kids that can calculate this kind of stuff now. It's a no brainer.

Bell wants to transfer? Benny? Let them go. We are a mediocre team right now during the next year in a string of mediocre or bad years. What do we have to lose?

What do we have to lose? A good foundation that we’re building this year to hopefully be much better next season. I’m not saying I believe that’s a great plan, but I imagine the staff is operating with that mindset. I also suspect they believe they could lose a player or two and will have to mine the portal or get a 2024 kid to reclassify or land a decommit.

 

[CousCuse]

If I were going to point the finger at someone for the slow starts it would be Jesse. He can be really lackadaisical in the first half and Boeheim has pulled him a few times for it. Joe was like 0 for 3's in both the PITT and UVA games first halfs. Upperclassmen are the guys that need to set the tone.

 

[OrangeinDC]

A shooting guard who can only shoot and not do any of the other ‘guard’ things, like dribble.

Yep. A lot of 2 guards have no more than a two dribble attack... Master that and you can be fairly successful as a 2. Also, it depends on what he's been taught/asked to do by previous coaches. Regardless, he's at the starting point of his game, not the end.

 

[OrangeinDC]

He did a lot of damage in the lane. He didn't over-dribble on his move, was more direct, quicker to shoot. Gave the D a little less time to adjust to his drive. Quicker decisions means fewer blocked shots. I think that was a big part of it last night.

Other than a few "Joe" moments, thought it was one of his best games.

 

[IthacaMatt]

In Benny's case, I wouldn't consider it giving up on a young player.
Benny has been given a starting role for 1-1/2 seasons. Subjective, but that's enough opportunity IMO.
Brown has proven that he has more hoops intuition, savvy, and skill in his pinky finger at this point.
I want to see good basketball and SU winning again -like we saw last night.
I want to see Maliq Brown.

The locker room is a mystery we can't know, but assume that these players like winning.
Maliq starting over Benny seems reasonable if they want to win.
Get the smooth-running components on the floor -enough grinding gears to dig a hole to start games.

Of course "the players like winning", but various groupings of these guys played together in AAU ball or in HS / Prep. Friends want friends to play well. Nobody wants to feel that their opportunity here is over, especially when they're all in their first or second year, for the most part. That's what I'm talking about.