Vincent Council led the Big East in assists last season |

Vincent Council led the Big East in assists last season


Scout Team
Aug 29, 2011
Providence's Vincent Council led the Big East in assists per game last season, with 5.9.

Scoop had 5.8.

(I know, I know, Scoop had one more total assist, but fewer assists per game)

Does that mean that Vincent Council is obviously a great point guard? Is Vincent Council good enough to start at point for the Cuse, pushing Triche out of position and putting MCW and Waiters on the bench?

Of course not!


Because despite his many assists, Council was a low efficiency chucker, just like Scoop. Scoop has better percentages, but took a higher percentage of two point shots (relative to threes and free throws), so Council's terrible 1.11 points per shot wasn't much worse than Jardine's lousy 1.17 points per shot. Council scored a tiny bit more (13.7 vs. 12.8).

I'm not saying that Council is quite as good as Scoop: he isn't. Scoop is better, but not by a ton: as the advanced metrics demonstrate.

The argument that, "Scoop led the big east in assists, ergo, he is good enough and people questioning him are crazy" is illogical nonsense. Leading the Big East in a basketball card statistic does not necessarily make a player good enough to play a lead role on a top 5 team.

Over the years, a number of mediocre guards have led the Big East in assists:
* Chris Thomas (twice), ND
* Tory Jackson (twice), ND
* Eugene Lawrence, St. Johns
and now Vincent Council.

None of these guards would be good enough to start for the Cuse this season at point. So the fact that Scoop led the Big East in total assists, and came in second in assists/game, doesn't mean that he is good enough to start for us. Jardine's appearance on the Wooden preseason list doesn't mean anything either (see Kevin Jones, Peyton Siva, et al).

Pretty much all advanced metrics agree: Scoop is not efficient. Under Kenpom stats, for example, Scoop (104) is substantially less efficient than out-of-position Brandon Triche (108) and injured Kris Joseph (109). Every other statistical measure of efficiency I have seen gives Scoop poor marks.

So please, if someone has an empirically-informed, statistical argument that demonstrates Scoop is a national championship type efficient point guard: please share. Otherwise, can we please stop praising Scoop for finishing second in Big East assist rate and for having one more assist than Vincent Council?
The idea that we would be a better team without scoop this year is laughable. A 5th year sr with a ton of exerience. But let's look at last year. He had two centers who could do nothin g with the ball. One because he was too fat and slow, the other because he had a bad hand. He had a two guard that if he missed his first few shots, was hesitant to shoot. He had a 3 that had such a bad knee, he needed surgery after the season. He had to take a lot of bad shots. There was no one else most of the time.
Yes i have to agree with the lead the BE in assists argument, holds no weight for me not even enough to sink a feather. A great pg he is def not. NBA is not in his future. Hes a good pg at the college level with questional on court decisions and bball iq. But hes on our team so i wont him to have the season of his career.
Stats are indicators but you cannot view them in static. Even when you take them by possession it doesn't account for pace and many other things. You have to watch the games and the players. The most important thing is winning! Does the player overall help the team win more games than it would without said player. That's why any Proivdence offensive statistics under Keno Davis are just pointless. They gave up lay ins so they could shoot and lost at a most alarming rate. None of their players helped them win because they were not winning. We've been winning a lot the last couple of seasons with Scoop and Brandon in our guard rotation. I expect we will win a lot this year as well and if these guys have improved we may get over the hump and go deep in the NCAA's this year. I expect we will win a lot the following season as well and that Brandon Triche will have been a 4 year starter with a big pile of wins under his belt when he graduates. a moderate Scoop supporter, I find info above to be a good analysis...I believe the reason Scoop is our starting PG, from a "smell test" is that no one else on the team is thought to b a better PG...I have questioned this as I believe Triche is a better facilitator and has a higher bball IQ...but defer to the coaching staff...what I believe is going to happen is that next year MCW will wow all of us in the PG position...

Scoop will do fine if he looks to his teammates to score...I know he was second in the BE in assists; but how many times did he dribble so much that by the time he passed to Triche or was so late in the clock we did not get a good shot the end of this basketball season, I hope Scoop helps leads 'Cuse to the NC so we can all praise him...
I agree w Dasher that yiu have to look at last years performance in the context of the whole team.. Who on that team would you have preferred with the ball? KJ had knee problems. Even without that he has never demonstrated a consistent "i will take this team on my back" mentality. BT's disappearances have been well documented, as has the lack of scoring from the 5 spot.

No one is saying Scoop is an NBA pt guard based on last year. I will say though that he was a very good pt guard who had to do more than he should because of the lack of weapons around him.

By the way, he made the US team this summer as well. Unless you believe that this was merely a gift to JB, i think thazt does show what BB coaches think of him.
In general this is a stupid thread and your post was poorly crafted. Anyone who knows anything knows that scoop is more important than BT. bT is a solid role player, but he could leave the team tomorrow and it would literally have no impact on this squads season.

But as to your "point" on metrics, scoop's plus/minus was a full 33 percent better than bt's and his a/to ratio was 25 percent better. Those are rather significant gaps.

I get why we play BT. Maybe it pays off and maybe it doesn't. But last yr he wasn't in scoop's class and it wasn't close.
God, another What post from you. We don't play BT because we want Coleman. That is a moronic position to take. He plays because he is the best player at his position to play. Many people that have expertise in the game, and have actually played it, think Bt is the best player on the team. I don't agree with that but he is a solid player.

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