Watch this game from 2008 Kansas-Syracuse CBE Classic

[Alsacs]

I agree. Last night was more about effort than anything. You can hate JBs strategy all you want, but if the players don't care it doesn't matter what the coach does. I think that's the bigger issue. It's not like we gave up a ton of points to Wisconsin, UConn and South Carolina. We were lucky to get 50 those games. Yesterday was just about quitting.

The offense has sucked since 2012.
We do have 2 Final Fours since then but JB doesn't
care to change it. He doesn't.
Our offense has been garbage. We have had 4 first round draft picks in that timeframe.
Our program is frustrating. I love the team and really want to win and discuss brackets to get a NC.
We should have another NC with that talent we have gotten.
JB doesn't change and that helps him but it also hurts us.

 

[RF2044]

The offense has sucked since 2012.
We do have 2 Final Fours since then but JB doesn't
care to change it. He doesn't.
Our offense has been garbage. We have had 4 first round draft picks in that timeframe.
Our program is frustrating. I love the team and really want to win and discuss brackets to get a NC.
We should have another NC with that talent we have gotten.
JB doesn't change and that helps him but it also hurts us.

...and it really wasn't all that good in 2012. A lot of our problems were masked by the number of turnovers that we forced, which enabled us to get run outs for easy scoring opportunities in transition. That's how we offset the lack of post scoring on that team.

We also had quite a few natural scorers [Waiters, CJ], and a lot of bench firepower to compliment the starters. But this wasn't a great offensive team, they just offset their limitations with great defense.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I admire you for making it that far. I was done by the 8 minute mark.

Same here. Switched to UL/UK just in time to catch that nasty Adebayo dunk on Mahmoud.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The offense has sucked since 2012.
We do have 2 Final Fours since then but JB doesn't
care to change it. He doesn't.
Our offense has been garbage. We have had 4 first round draft picks in that timeframe.
Our program is frustrating. I love the team and really want to win and discuss brackets to get a NC.
We should have another NC with that talent we have gotten.
JB doesn't change and that helps him but it also hurts us.

We run a read and react system. Read up on it if you are curious. The biggest problem last year is we were completely reliant on 3 pointers. Part of our issues would be solved if we had a legit Point Guard who made good decisions with the ball.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I don't even care about the man vs zone with JB these days. I know he won't switch. The offense gets us in trouble first and foremost. We couldn't get anything going. Bad shots. Seems like we took forever to get past 20 points against StJ. It's the offense I worry about now more than ever and who knows what the hell Hopkins can do about in the future. If no fundamentals are going to be taught here (some players DO need to be taught these things) moving forward then I wholeheartedly want to trim and gut the whole carcass.

 

[Alsacs]

...and it really wasn't all that good in 2012. A lot of our problems were masked by the number of turnovers that we forced, which enabled us to get run outs for easy scoring opportunities in transition. That's how we offset the lack of post scoring on that team.

We also had quite a few natural scorers [Waiters, CJ], and a lot of bench firepower to compliment the starters. But this wasn't a great offensive team, they just offset their limitations with great defense.

Was it no good in 2012 due to scheme or talent?
That 2012 team had all you needed.
Sccop/Triche to divide the PG
Waiters best SU season since Melo.
Fair midrange game
Joseph driving to the lane game.
Melo/Christmas/BMK clog the middle.
Southerland deep bench who could shoot.
MCW deep bench.
If this roster can't be a good offense that is on coaching.

 

[SoBeCuse]

We run a read and react system. Read up on it if you are curious. The biggest problem last year is we were completely reliant on 3 pointers. Part of our issues would be solved if we had a legit Point Guard who made good decisions with the ball.

Do think we have the athletes to run a "read and react?" You do have to make some plays and beat your man on/off the ball. Against anyone reasonably athletic we can't shake anybody initially.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don't even care about the man vs zone with JB these days. I know he won't switch. The offense gets us in trouble first and foremost. We couldn't get anything going. Bad shots. Seems like we took forever to get past 20 points against StJ. It's the offense I worry about now more than ever and who knows what the hell Hopkins can do about in the future. If no fundamentals are going to be taught here (some players DO need to be taught these things) moving forward then I wholeheartedly want to trim and gut the whole carcass.

I know we make adjustments to our zone, but the line of thinking that you can only do two things...either man to man or 2-3 zone is irritating. How about a matchup zone? A halfcourt trapping zone? Maybe a 3-2 or a 1-3-1? Something else? Funny how these other teams often play multiple different defenses in a game, while beating us.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I know we make adjustments to our zone, but the line of thinking that you can only do two things...either man to man or 2-3 zone is irritating. How about a matchup zone? A halfcourt trapping zone? Maybe a 3-2 or a 1-3-1? Something else? Funny how these other teams often play multiple different defenses in a game, while beating us.

Yup. I try to not even think about that potentially great adjustment/deviation.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Do think we have the athletes to run a "read and react?" You do have to make some plays and beat your man on/off the ball. Against anyone reasonably athletic we can't shake anybody initially.

It worked for Andy Rautins and Wes Johnson. They weren't create your own shot guys. Part of the issue this year is I think this may be the worst passing team we have ever had. Thompson and Lydon might be the two best passers we have. Everything comes down to the backcourt IMO. They've been terrible. Last year it was a strength.

 

[pearl31]

It worked for Andy Rautins and Wes Johnson. They weren't create your own shot guys. Part of the issue this year is I think this may be the worst passing team we have ever had. Thompson and Lydon might be the two best passers we have. Everything comes down to the backcourt IMO. They've been terrible. Last year it was a strength.

I hear ya, but FH is a good passer, or at least he's shown that he can be... but he's such a mess against the good teams. as stated too many times already over the past few weeks in countless threads, he has gotta get it together or we're in for more of last night

 

[jgeorge322]

Lets be real, lots of guard talent in that backcourt. I think 2 5* and a 4*

 

[FrancoPizza]

The problem is, even if you tried to make an unbiased post, it would be your version of trying to make an unbiased post which is pretty much always negative and anti-JB.

We're all biased creatures. To be otherwise would render us inhuman. The real tragedy is you think you've graduated to some plane of higher thinking as the arbiter of public opinion. If you think my posts just clutter the forum, by merely complaining about my clutter, what the does that make you, and how does that contribute anything of substance here? I think you're just phishing for likes in the same way a bully in high school would pick on the nerds because it was an easy target that drew lots of laughs.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We're all biased creatures. To be otherwise would render us inhuman. The real tragedy is you think you've graduated to some plane of higher thinking as the arbiter of public opinion. If you think my posts just clutter the forum, by merely complaining about my clutter, What does that make you, and how does that contribute anything of substance here? Are you just phishing for likes?

The problem is even when we were winning you still complained about JB. I started a thread last year about how the zone was dominant against Duke at Cameron and it turned into a 5 page argument on why we should be playing man even though we beat Duke at Cameron. I'm sure if we somehow turned it around you would continue the complaining about something.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The problem is even when we were winning you still complained about JB. I started a thread last year about how the zone was dominant against Duke at Cameron and it turned into a 5 page argument on why we should be playing man even though we beat Duke at Cameron. I'm sure if we somehow turned it around you would continue the complaining about something.

So if we're winning we can't voice criticism? Got it. By that measure we should have been singing kumbaya during 25-0. Let's face it - it's never about the content - it's who the poster is, how many posts they've contributed, and most importantly whether you agree or like their opinion. Let's cut the BS.

 

[cusefan88]

Flynn and I think Harris used to badger JB to play more man-to-man.

i saw in front of Jonny at a football game before his freshman season. And he said point blank they beg JB to play man.

 

[orange79]

i saw in front of Jonny at a football game before his freshman season. And he said point blank they beg JB to play man.

So what? I beg my wife to get a 90" flat screen and mount it on the wall.

The boss gets to decide. :noidea:

 

[Cusefan0307]

So if we're winning we can't voice criticism? Got it. By that measure we should have been singing kumbaya during 25-0. Let's face it - it's never about the content - it's who the poster is, how many posts they've contributed, and most importantly whether you agree or like their opinion. Let's cut the BS.

Criticism is fine, but you totally missed my point which was even when we have won you have ZERO positive to say. It has nothing to do with number of posts or who the poster is. It's just your schtick I guess.

 

[NKR1978]

Flynn and I think Harris used to badger JB to play more man-to-man.

They did, and I think after giving up 100+ to Providence we pretty much switched over to man on the vast majority of possessions. Turned the season around.

 

[cusefan88]

So what? I beg my wife to get a 90" flat screen and mount it on the wall.

The boss gets to decide. :noidea:

Just relaying the story Chief. that's all.

 

[NKR1978]

I admire you for making it that far. I was done by the 8 minute mark.

I have a disease that makes me watch to the bitter end. Even when I try to change the channel I eventually go back. I call it the gerg.

 

[OrangeDW]

I have a disease that makes me watch to the bitter end. Even when I try to change the channel I eventually go back. I call it the gerg.

I usually do too. I even watched the whole DePaul blowout.

This is by far the earliest I have ever shut off a Cuse game and not gone back.

 

[OrangeDW]

i saw in front of Jonny at a football game before his freshman season. And he said point blank they beg JB to play man.

They were right. That team was not built for the zone. Too short. Flynn was a capable man defender and Harris was very good in man.

 

[dasher]

So we played zone AND man last night and both we couldn't play?

So these kids who have played basketball their entire lives can't play either of the most common defenses that exist? And we can't run a coherent offense? Or get into transition?

Our players must suck. Or...Our coaching is atrocious.

And yet with these horrible coaches, we have been to two final fours in the last 4 years. We must be really lucky.

 

[SWC75]

We played 4 different defenses last night. Zone, then as mentioned some weird thing with nobody down low (almost definitely some player was in the wrong place), then man to man, then press. Each defense was worse than the last.

People try so hard to blame the coaches that they have to make stuff up like Boeheim won't try anything new. He tried everything last night. This is on the players. The players sucked yesterday and have sucked all season.

When you aren't playing any defense, it's hard to tell what defense you were supposed to be in.

I still don't understand why people think that if a team is playing poorly in a zone, which requires players to guard a designated area, that they would play better in a man to man, which requires following players all over the court.

Sometimes it's on the players. Do people think the coaches told them to play like that?