Watching SJU / UCONN Big East Tourney

[Cheriehoop]

100%!

The "football drives the bus" folks weren't wrong as another poster alluded, that's is a fact. Unfortunately, what no one had the foresight of knowing, was just how JB was going to operate once we got the ACC invite. His actions, in-actions, etc., as well as his rigidness and inability to adapt, etc. to a style that no longer was effective in the Steph Curry era of hoops.

"You could be a meteorologist (Syracuse basketball) fan all your life... and never see something like this. It would be a disaster of epic proportions. It would be... 'the perfect storm.'"

I think he actually over adjusted to the Steph Curry era of hoops. We had plenty of shooters - Buddy, Joe G, Swider even Jimmy Boeheim who shot .379 from 3 his only year here. What we lacked was a true point guard, a distributor, facilitator and an healthy consistent effective inside game. We had spacers on the perimeter but a donut hole inside with no shot creators, penetrators for an effective inside-out game to take advantage of the shooters.

 

[orangecuse]

I think he actually over adjusted to the Steph Curry era of hoops. We had plenty of shooters - Buddy, Joe G, Swider even Jimmy Boeheim who shot .379 from 3 his only year here. What we lacked was a true point guard, a distributor, facilitator and an healthy consistent effective inside game. We had spacers on the perimeter but a donut hole inside with no shot creators, penetrators for an effective inside-out game to take advantage of the shooters.

Yeah. My point though was how his John Chaney-esque (match up type zone) all the time, nothing but the zone, so help me god approach was obsolete. Which, significantly contributed to him being so as well.

 

[djorange1989]

sorry i guess you missed the McPherson,Graves ,Mcnabb teams. the pearl, rony/dc/sherm stevie, etc gangs , the league titles, top 20 ranked teams and that kid named carmelo . the gaits ,the powells, the final 4 lax streak...
yes the big east days were AWFUL . we are SO much better now in the ACC...NOT!!!

I said post-McNabb, since you missed that. And I also said that you can’t just blame the move to the ACC for us becoming a mediocre hoops program. I highly doubt LAX falling was because of the move to the ACC either. I was a student from 85-89, so no sh** as far as all the great things you mentioned. Too bad the ACC move isn’t remotely the only reason things crashed

 

[DilemaCuse]

An addition is the huge effect of athletic director changes, direction and employees evolving from the Daryl Gross era that ended on June 2015, then the hiring of Mark Coyle and his quick subsequent resignation in May 2016 followed by the hiring of John Wildhack in July 2016. There had to be terrible confusion, lack of leadership during a critical time when we were suffering with major sanctions and so much uncertainty with and for coaches effecting the direction of SU athletics as a whole. Remember too that JB and Hop were working as Olympic assistants in 2016 in Brazil. Had to be a constant succession of wild, chaotic, uncertain times for all during a very critical period of challenges and massive changes.

Really good points, a lot was going on

 

[tbonezone]

SU athletic dept. traded tradition and glory for $$$$$$$. and it's turned out to be a bad wager.
ok . no bowl games . no NCAA bball or lax tourneys. what a great time to be a fan ! NOT!!!

 

[baggerbob]

I think he actually over adjusted to the Steph Curry era of hoops. We had plenty of shooters - Buddy, Joe G, Swider even Jimmy Boeheim who shot .379 from 3 his only year here. What we lacked was a true point guard, a distributor, facilitator and an healthy consistent effective inside game. We had spacers on the perimeter but a donut hole inside with no shot creators, penetrators for an effective inside-out game to take advantage of the shooters.

The last year's he wasn't getting the DC, Rony, Wallace type of player who could rebound, play defense and score inside.
And DC was a good passer out of a double team.
If Freeman can bring back some of that including the toughness.
Everyone talks about big, burly, guys.
No one would have pushed DC around even as a freshman, he was strong.

 

[two3zone]

Yeah, and there were massive recruiting misses, kids being hand delivered here yet turned down. Time to move on.

I’m intrigued on who was turned down.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

SU athletic dept. traded tradition and glory for $$$$$$$. and it's turned out to be a bad wager.

Jim Brown, Ernie Davis, and Floyd Little would be rolling in their graves if SU discontinued the football program, or dropped down to 1-AA.

In fact, I think Brown would like to have a talk with you out on the balcony to discuss your opinion.

 

[tbonezone]

Jim Brown, Ernie Davis, and Floyd Little would be rolling in their graves if SU discontinued the football program, or dropped down to 1-AA.

In fact, I think Brown would like to have a talk with you out on the balcony to discuss your opinion.

i'll fight jim (not a huge SU fan given circumstances) and you sir can fight derrick.

 

[Cusefan95]

You constantly blame our struggles on the conference while ignoring the fact that other schools in the ACC, BIG and SEC are getting plenty of talent from the Northeast.

Our former coach is responsible for our mediocrity - not the ACC.

There is a huge reluctance to admit the recent issues are predominately due to the fact we had a coach who retired about 8 years ago, but neglected to do so officially until last year. Syracuse was headed for rough times as a result regardless of what conferences were in.

Let’s see how Syracuse does now that we have a coach who is actually attempting to win.

Blaming our failures on joining the ACC is just an effort to avoid putting the blame where it belongs. And the fact JB built the program doesn’t absolve him of nearly destroying it before he reluctantly retired while being gently pushed out the door.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

i'll fight jim (not a huge SU fan given circumstances) and you sir can fight derrick.

Have you seen DC lately?

I can outrun him all day long.

 

[tbonezone]

Have you seen DC lately?

I can outrun him all day long.

he's still got stride and he's still got reach . don't count on it. he'll pop you from across the room.

 

[Cusefan95]

sorry i guess you missed the McPherson,Graves ,Mcnabb teams. the pearl, rony/dc/sherm stevie, etc gangs , the league titles, top 20 ranked teams and that kid named carmelo . the gaits ,the powells, the final 4 lax streak...
yes the big east days were AWFUL . we are SO much better now in the ACC...NOT!!!

How’s Big East football doing now?

Our options were to join the ACC, or likely join the American like UConn did initially, or kill football by keeping basketball in the Big East like UConn eventually did.

Might want to factor in that killing football creates a major budgeting issue, as the Dome instantly transforms into a white elephant if Syracuse is drawing FCS level crowds - in all likelihood not joining the ACC when we did would have created a whole new set of problems for basketball and lacrosse which we avoided by joining the ACC.

Wishing Syracuse didn’t join the ACC when we did is insane if you honestly think there was a better option available.

 

[Cusefan95]

SU athletic dept. traded tradition and glory for $$$$$$$. and it's turned out to be a bad wager.
ok . no bowl games . no NCAA bball or lax tourneys. what a great time to be a fan ! NOT!!!

What Syracuse did was not only a not a bad wager - it was literally the only viable option available. Every other option we’d be in substantially worse positions than we are now - so if this is unbearable to you, you should be thrilled we minimized the total damage to the athletic department by jumping to the ACC when we did.

 

[tbonezone]

What Syracuse did was not only a not a bad wager - it was literally the only viable option available. Every other option we’d be in substantially worse positions than we are now - so if this is unbearable to you, you should be thrilled we minimized the total damage to the athletic department by jumping to the ACC when we did.

tell that to uconn . bad move. just kick yourself now or hold it for later. it'll hurt more.

 

[Cusefan95]

tell that to uconn . bad move. just kick yourself now or hold it for later. it'll hurt more.

UConn’s athletic department deficit was at $53 Million for fiscal year 2022. It was worse before they gave up on football. They’ve been hemoraging money since the original Big East imploded, which is why they decided to join the Big East and put football in a position to lose a lot of games but a lot less money.

Not sure if you know this - but UConn is a public school while Syracuse is private. That means some of what has allowed UConn to survive wouldn’t be an option for Syracuse. Worth noting they are still bleeding money from their athletic department, even with a highly successful basketball program…it’s much more likely that if Syracuse followed the same general path they would have had to cut spending to the bone and become the northeastern equivalent of Vandy, who competes successfully in no sports anyone actually cares about.

But yeah - keep thinking that staying in the Big East would have worked out awesome for Syracuse. All you’re proving is you are either insane, or just willfully took a long term vacation from reality. It would have been a catastrophe.

 

[tbonezone]

UConn’s athletic department deficit was at $53 Million for fiscal year 2022.

like i care about money when i'm paying $ 80 bucks a cheap seat . just curious math majors. when you factor in the cost of all those premium court side seats plus the hefty donations for stealing said prime seating from old time cuse fans ...
what exactly is the average cost per ticket in the dome these days in the dome ? $400?
i bang my head on the roof in a venue which is always top 5 attendance and hear we don't have money ? something don't add up. much smaller schools do much better with less.

 

[Cusefan95]

like i care about money when i'm paying $ 80 bucks a cheap seat .

I don’t know that spending $80 on cheap seats shows that you don’t care about money - but your comments in this thread strongly indicate you don’t understand money (and how it impacts decision making).

Because Syracuse doing anything other than joining the ACC would have cratered revenues - which would have led to decisions you don’t appear to comprehend would have been financial necessities for a private university and disastrous to all sports at Syracuse.

 

[Cuse12]

amazing where we went and where Uconn went since we broke off from the big east. And I don’t believe we declined because conference changing.

 

[tbonezone]

I don’t know that spending $80 on cheap seats shows that you don’t care about money - but your comments in this thread strongly indicate you don’t understand money (and how it impacts decision making).

Because Syracuse doing anything other than joining the ACC would have cratered revenues - which would have led to decisions you don’t appear to comprehend would have been financial necessities for a private university and disastrous to all sports at Syracuse.

so Colgate and Cornell st Bonny folded years ago ? it's you who needs the economics lesson.

 

[Cstate]

Watching UConn right now….they would beat us by 40

 

[DilemaCuse]

I don't believe that JB mailed it in. His competitiveness is in his genes. He was the closer while staff recruited. The formula only stopped working when we left the BE.

We left in 2013, he never adjusted his formula, like his defense...thats why we went downhill

 

[AlaskaSU]

How’s Big East football doing now?

Our options were to join the ACC, or likely join the American like UConn did initially, or kill football by keeping basketball in the Big East like UConn eventually did.

Might want to factor in that killing football creates a major budgeting issue, as the Dome instantly transforms into a white elephant if Syracuse is drawing FCS level crowds - in all likelihood not joining the ACC when we did would have created a whole new set of problems for basketball and lacrosse which we avoided by joining the ACC.

Wishing Syracuse didn’t join the ACC when we did is insane if you honestly think there was a better option available.

 

[AlaskaSU]

We had no choice, and that is the tragedy l.

 

[hoopsupstate]

You win when you recruit. Football has been bad since we joined the ACC. Basketball hasn’t had a point guard since Ennis committed in 2014. Just think about that! When we had players (2014) we won 14 games in the ACC. We have our two best recruits coming in for basketball next year in the past five years. Football is head and shoulders better next year. Let’s see if that changes things.