Watching the first minute of the UCLA-Kentucky game

[Cusefan0307]

You realize we were an outlier last year right?
How you even argue our offense isn't a problem is alarming. I didn't mention last year at all. I was talking about this game at Kentucky. UCLA in the first minute of the game ran more sets than we have.

Our offense is awful and it hasn't gotten better. We will win games on defense but we won't win a championship without a better offense. This is about championships. I don't care about wins in December. I would take a losing season if we means we win a NC.

Ehh. We were a bad call against Brandon Triche in 2013 from playing for the title.

Not sure UCLA is the example you want to use because they are a sieve on defense since Alford has been there. They gave up almost 80 points a game last year. So while Alford may put together good offenses. I think we need to see how things shake out for UCLA the rest of the year. I think they can be better than Zona or Oregon, but they haven't proven it on the side of the court we are awesome at.

 

[Alsacs]

lol it wasn't our offense that stopped us in 2010 or 2012. Those teams were running the same offense, and were either the best team in the country or the second best. Two other times we went to the final four. A 3rd time we were 25-0. The old saying, it's not the x's and o's. It's the jimmies and the joe's. We need much better pt guard play. We don't have it on a consistent basis. That is the trouble for our offense. Plus, we have been limited with the ability of our low post players. It really is that simple. This is not the first trip down this road. Are you suggesting that JB doesn't know enough about offensive basketball to install a different offense if he thought that was best? Are you suggesting that you know more about offensive basketball than JB? What? And do you know that long before jb was known for the 2-3 zone, he was known as a offensive guru. It's true. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with the way our o or d is run. That is what being a fan is all about. But this suggestion that wow, UCLA runs such impressive sets. Going in to this year, there was pressure on whether Alford was the right guy and could keep his job. He got better guards. And ...

Our 2010 offense was elite because it had shooting, midrange, and post scoring options.
Our 2012 offense was average we were winning games on defense. We had Waiters and Jardine with Joseph in the midrange but we had no post offense. 2012 was not a great offense. It was good enough to win a NC if we avoided Kentucky.

Our guards are recruited for the zone. We need more offensively skilled guards. We aren't recruiting offensively skilled guards as much as we are recruiting for the zone.
Where did I say I was smarter than JB? I am saying I don't think JB recruits enough skilled offensive players as much as we need to win a NC. Our offensive philosophy was described as simple to allow the players not to overthink. That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. If the 2013 team had a just slightly better offensive team we cut down the nets.

 

[Alsacs]

Ehh. We were a bad call against Brandon Triche in 2013 from playing for the title.

Not sure UCLA is the example you want to use because they are a sieve on defense since Alford has been there. They gave up almost 80 points a game last year. So while Alford may put together good offenses. I think we need to see how things shake out for UCLA the rest of the year. I think they can be better than Zona or Oregon, but they haven't proven it on the side of the court we are awesome at.

From overtime no doubt against Michigan.
However, our offense sucking was why that game was even close. We were barely getting to 60 points against good teams. You can't win a NC with that chitty an offense. I am not asking for an all offense no defense team. I just think we are too swung in the defensive end and recruiting for the zone we don't have enough firepower to win a NC.
We aren't winning a NC with an elite D and awful offense. It can get us to the Final Four but it won't win a NC.

 

[dasher]

Our 2010 offense was elite because it had shooting, midrange, and post scoring options.
Our 2012 offense was average we were winning games on defense. We had Waiters and Jardine with Joseph in the midrange but we had no post offense. 2012 was not a great offense. It was good enough to win a NC if we avoided Kentucky.

Our guards are recruited for the zone. We need more offensively skilled guards. We aren't recruiting offensively skilled guards as much as we are recruiting for the zone.
Where did I say I was smarter than JB? I am saying I don't think JB recruits enough skilled offensive players as much as we need to win a NC. Our offensive philosophy was described as simple to allow the players not to overthink. That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. If the 2013 team had a just slightly better offensive team we cut down the nets.

I don't disagree with most of that. I think we won in 12 because we were deeper than just about anyone I have seen in a long time. I think we try to get skilled guards ( we just tried very hard for Green and he didn't fit the zone) But we need more skilled players. But that isn't arguing for different sets. That's arguing for better players. I am 100% on board with that.

 

[dasher]

Ehh. We were a bad call against Brandon Triche in 2013 from playing for the title.

Not sure UCLA is the example you want to use because they are a sieve on defense since Alford has been there. They gave up almost 80 points a game last year. So while Alford may put together good offenses. I think we need to see how things shake out for UCLA the rest of the year. I think they can be better than Zona or Oregon, but they haven't proven it on the side of the court we are awesome at.

He isn't arguing that UCLA is all that great. Just that he liked their sets. I suggest that they have guards that are good and that makes their sets look better. And they shot 44% from 3 today, that always make you look good.

 

[bozophobe]

From overtime no doubt against Michigan.
However, our offense sucking was why that game was even close. We were barely getting to 60 points against good teams. You can't win a NC with that chitty an offense. I am not asking for an all offense no defense team. I just think we are too swung in the defensive end and recruiting for the zone we don't have enough firepower to win a NC.
We aren't winning a NC with an elite D and awful offense. It can get us to the Final Four but it won't win a NC.

On paper, it does seem like SU has been recruiting or landing (2 different things) guards who were great at offense, in recent years. Even Kaleb Joseph, who had the word "assassin" in his nickname in high school, was considered an offensive monster - despite not being tall enough to fit the usual description of a Boeheim zone guard.

And, of course, SU is stuck in the new era of great offensive guards leaving for the NBA quickly (or even good ones, like Malachi). Tyus Battle was an offensive beast in HS. Gillon was an emergency patch, but he has a very good offensive resume, too.

SU does need to reload soon, though.

 

[two3zone]

On paper, it does seem like SU has been recruiting or landing (2 different things) guards who were great at offense, in recent years. Even Kaleb Joseph, who had the word "assassin" in his nickname in high school, was considered an offensive monster - despite not being tall enough to fit the usual description of a Boeheim zone guard.

And, of course, SU is stuck in the new era of great offensive guards leaving for the NBA quickly (or even good ones, like Malachi). Tyus Battle was an offensive beast in HS. Gillon was an emergency patch, but he has a very good offensive resume, too.

SU does need to reload soon, though.

Kaleb was 6'3". Who in our recent history was taller other than MCW and G (who I'll never consider a true PG)?

 

[dasher]

Kaleb was 6'3". Who in our recent history was taller other than MCW and G (who I'll never consider a true PG)?

Triche?

 

[dasher]

From overtime no doubt against Michigan.
However, our offense sucking was why that game was even close. We were barely getting to 60 points against good teams. You can't win a NC with that chitty an offense. I am not asking for an all offense no defense team. I just think we are too swung in the defensive end and recruiting for the zone we don't have enough firepower to win a NC.
We aren't winning a NC with an elite D and awful offense. It can get us to the Final Four but it won't win a NC.

you get to the final four, you can win a national title.

 

[two3zone]

Triche?

Yeah, that's fair. Didn't think about him for some reason, even he though could be considered a PG/SG.

Year/Player/MPG

12/13 MCW 35
11/12 Scoop 25
10/11 Scoop 32
09/10 Scoop 22

Triche without question played a lot of point his Freshman and Junior years, but even him I don't think I could put on the Cuse point guard list.

 

[bozophobe]

Kaleb was 6'3". Who in our recent history was taller other than MCW and G (who I'll never consider a true PG)?

Nobody (that's what I was saying). I was talking strongly offensive (looking) players.

I thought Kaleb was/is barely over 6 feet. SU has gone after a good mix, actually; just haven't been able to land or keep or develop 'em, I guess.