We need six wins this year

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#31
To me we need to see 7-8 wins. The real fixer type coaches achieve success by year 3. We have a senior qb. I’m not lowering my expectations because the conference we’re in.
 

OrangeDW

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#34
4-8, 4-8, 3-9/4-8 means that there is evidence that the system isn't "promising."

A 4th year w/ disappointing results would absolutely justify a pink slip, especially if we're snubbed in the draft again this year.
That’s not system, that’s talent IMO. Evidence of that would be our punter being the only guy the NFL has cared about in recent years.
 

Chip

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#35
6-6 for us would be a 3rd tier bowl game...color me mediocre in 2018.
There's no magic wand. Mediocre is an accomplishment when you inherit something that doesn't fit what you do, and really isn't up to Power 5 standards.

Agree with those (Mad, Otto) pointing to the QB. It's the best place to start, and we not only have a very good senior, but a backup who will take us to new heights when it's his time.

I'm bullish on this program right now even though all the competitors are certainly feeling the same way (and most had a head start). Every position on the field should have the size, speed and experience to start thinking 8-9 wins in 2019. Anything we get this year out of them is just gravy. As I said, there's a path to "mediocrity" with the 2018 schedule. If 2019 doesn't pop, then yeah, put me in the worrying camp.
 
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#36
That’s not system, that’s talent IMO. Evidence of that would be our punter being the only guy the NFL has cared about in recent years.
They're all Dino's players after 3-4 years. You can't blame losses on a talent gap if you recruited (and developed) all of the players.

And once again, there is no evidence of promise until there is something other than hope to show for it. As of right now, the offense regressed in year 1 and probably bounced back in year 2. We've had 2 big upsets (VT and Clemson), a number of close games, several losses that sting (0-4? vs BC/WF in the last 2 years, MTSU, etc.), and back-to-back 4-8 campaigns.

That record is fine for years 1 & 2, but if there isn't improvement by year 3, it's crazy to not start asking questions, and a weak performance in year 3 + an anticlimactic year 4 = time to cut the line.

The above said, I fully expect Dino to do well, and I have no reason to think that he won't. But giving the guy unlimited get out of jail free cards isn't realistic.
 

kcsu

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#37
Dino is the right coach for Syracuse. He runs an offensive system that is unique in the East which takes advantage of the Dome. He has a charismatic personality not seen since Mac. He is open to change as evidenced by his recent staff shuffle. Last year he beat Clemson and gave LSU FSU Miami all they could handle. The D made significant strides until injuries and a lack of depth struck. We just concluded our best recruiting class in over 10 years and had we gone bowling he would have had multiple big time offers. We are fortunate to have him and im glad JW realizes this. With Dino its not a matter of if we turn the corner just when.
 

SoBristol

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#38
We will have tougher, more experienced lines on both sides. That is where it starts. Senior QB, senior RB -- both with multiple years as starters. Senior TE. Lots to build with, and as Babers said -- this is a break year, when first year players aren't going to be pushed into action unless they are really good. Because the roster, and the two deep in particular, has some good players -- finally.

How good are we? Depends on a WR or two emerging, and we won't know that until the Spring practices. Depends on the LBs, as we lost the top 4 veteran LBs, and Guthrie, Armstrong, Richards, Fagan and the juco Williams need to step up. Maybe a new RB emerges in the back half of the season? Maybe we finally have a pass rush? Maybe we can force turnovers?

My point -- we have a good chance to be a solid team, significantly better than what Babers started with in 2016. And we can't pencil in limits (6 wins?) until we learn more about the components.
 
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#39
I'm cautiously optimistic about this year and think 6+ wins is doable. I think Dungey (finally!) stays healthy for an entire season, oline one year older, lots of young talent at WR, potential 1st rounder on the dline (Slayton). Schedule is looking much easier than last year's too.
Dungey isn't going to stay healthy.

His style of play is too physical, he has a history of injuries, and we play a tempo offense (a lot of reps). We also go against a number of elite level DLs.

But TD getting reps and easing into the starting QB position before he takes it over full time isn't the end of the world.
 
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#40
Well Coach Mac won 4,2,6,6,7,and 5 games before winning 11 in year 7.
I think we give Dino 5 years at a minimum.
There's no way we give anyone a 5 year blanket pass. 3 is the norm, and 4 is generous.

He will have to have something other than moral victories to get to year 5. He needs 2 bowl appearances or a really great year 4.
 

721Comstock

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#42
There's no way we give anyone a 5 year blanket pass. 3 is the norm, and 4 is generous.

He will have to have something other than moral victories to get to year 5. He needs 2 bowl appearances or a really great year 4.
WRONG. 3 years is not the norm.

3 years is what "continuity hires" like SMFS get, to show they can continue/build upon prior success, or not.
4-5 years is what a total rebuild hire gets, since you need that much time for everything to take hold.

Shafer had had zero statement wins in his 3 years, and poor recruiting, with no sign that any of that would ever change, so he was fired, and rightly so. That's what you do when continuity hires don't pan out.

Dino has already had 2 statement wins, including a generational win vs Clemson that we haven't seen since Mac's days THREE DECADES AGO. Recruiting is dramatically improved - we're running ACC-level size and speed out there now, vs. a lot of undersized MAC-level talent prior, plus we're finally building up some similar quality depth behind it.

Wildhack knows the deal. He knows what he has in Dino, and the direction the program is moving now.
There are only 2 scenarios where Dino doesn't get AT LEAST 4 years here:
1 - he gets hired away for more $ by a "better" program
2 - something illegal happens in the program, and he is fired because of it.

(#2 is pretty much only theoretical - we're just coming off NCAA investigations and sanctions, I honestly can't even imagine that sorta thing going on at SU ever, but especially in the wake of those sanctions.)

There may be a lot of fan grumbling if we don't win "X # of games this year" or "get to a bowl game", but thankfully Syverud and Wildhack make those hiring and firing decisions, and not fans.
 

OrangeDW

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#43
They're all Dino's players after 3-4 years. You can't blame losses on a talent gap if you recruited (and developed) all of the players.

And once again, there is no evidence of promise until there is something other than hope to show for it. As of right now, the offense regressed in year 1 and probably bounced back in year 2. We've had 2 big upsets (VT and Clemson), a number of close games, several losses that sting (0-4? vs BC/WF in the last 2 years, MTSU, etc.), and back-to-back 4-8 campaigns.

That record is fine for years 1 & 2, but if there isn't improvement by year 3, it's crazy to not start asking questions, and a weak performance in year 3 + an anticlimactic year 4 = time to cut the line.

The above said, I fully expect Dino to do well, and I have no reason to think that he won't. But giving the guy unlimited get out of jail free cards isn't realistic.

Completely disagree. There was tons of evidence of improvement through 8 or 9 games. The bottom fell out as our team was beat to hell and we had no depth. Beat Clemson and took Miami and FSU and LSU to the wire on the road...when have we ever done that? Miami and FSU are places that even some of our really good teams in the 90’s got pounded at.

I expect things to be significantly better in years 3-4 but if not, I’m not going to panic. We’re not going to get anyone better and we’re in no position to put anyone on the hot seat after 3-4 years regardless, unless we want to keep the cycle of suck going. This isn’t b-ball, it can take longer. Especially when you’re talking about one of the least talented P-5 teams over the last 4-5 years. Maybe the least. If it takes longer than 3-4 years, so what? We’ve sucked for 15.
 

Cusefan69

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#44
There's no way we give anyone a 5 year blanket pass. 3 is the norm, and 4 is generous.

He will have to have something other than moral victories to get to year 5. He needs 2 bowl appearances or a really great year 4.
^^^ I think your hearing some of us say year 4 is when you see a jump. You want to see the jump sustained in year 5. Potential path to 6 wins and bowl is possible in year 3 but there are a ton of unknowns with the most important being who is replacing the ~200 receptions and touchdowns of Ish and Erv? We have strong QB returning who is injury prone and a top tier 2nd year backup with zero game snaps...zero. (I think he will be great but we have no college game proof at this time). The oline should be better but we have a new coach there...so tbd and on defense we are playing all new linebackers...all of them. We ran short on depth last year and we are on the cusp of having better depth in 18. So overall there is a path if things go a certain way in 18 and the football gods smile on us but I think we see the jump in 19 and it duplicates in 20. Go Cuse!
 

OrangeFoo

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#45
Hot take alert... We will not win 6 game with Dungey as QB for three reasons:
- he leaves too many plays on the field by becoming a running back too quickly
- he has a tendency to panic and go into shell shock mode and start throwing the ball to spots on the field where he expects a receiver to be and doesn’t look to see if there actually one there
- he’s been made to look much better than he his by AET and Ishmael making amazing plays on really poorly thrown balls

The three points above means that we have whole quarters where we go three and out which means our D spends way too much time on the field which means they get tired and beaten up. Which means we peak at mid season and have very little left.

Haters bring the hate!
 
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#46
Fired the last coach for 14 wins and one bowl game in 3 years with the prior coaches talent but most posters are cool with less than that for the next coaches 3 years. Doesn't make much sense to me. At some point there needs to be accountability for your actual record.

When is the demand for a winning team kick in? Ever? Whats the bottom line and when? Or is it all subjective based upon the gut feeling test?

I want to give him 2 more years to get it done and believe he has a strong chance to do so but if there is no bowl game after 5 years the question of whether he has the ability to get it done and should stay is wholly relevant imo.
 

OrangeDW

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#48
Fired the last coach for 14 wins and one bowl game in 3 years with the prior coaches talent but most posters are cool with less than that for the next coaches 3 years. Doesn't make much sense to me. At some point there needs to be accountability for your actual record.

When is the demand for a winning team kick in? Ever? Whats the bottom line and when? Or is it all subjective based upon the gut feeling test?

I want to give him 2 more years to get it done and believe he has a strong chance to do so but if there is no bowl game after 5 years the question of whether he has the ability to get it done and should stay is wholly relevant imo.
The other guy took over a team that had just won 8 games.

This guy took over a team that had just won 3 games.

This guy inherited the other guy’s mess.
 

Trueblue25

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#49
Again,


People really underestimate the attrition caused by 4 of our first 5 p5 games before bye week being lsu, clemson, nc st and Miami.

Thats three preseason national championship contenders. Two on the road.

At no point during this stretch did we not look like a competitive top 40 team either.

Unfortunately Dino inherited g5 talent with zero depth and that gauntlet dropped us by the end of the FSU game.

We were more banged up by the end of the year than the continental army heading into winter at valley forge.
 


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