We need six wins this year

CuseOnly

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2019 schedule is definitely very good. Especially with looking at seniors this coming season etc. I still think they need to make a bowl game. That should be the minimum ask every year.

This year maybe to get six wins: WMU, UConn, Wagner, UNC/NC St split, @ Wake. Well...yeah six is gonna be tough.
WMU, Wagner, Wake, BC, Uconn and one more of 7 games and we get there easily.

Best chances are Pitt and NC State or UNC
 

cuse309

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I think enough time has gone by to reflect on this past season. I am as confident as ever that Dino is the man for the job and it's just a matter of time before we are back to winning (at least 6 wins) on a regular basis. We saw what could be with the Clemson game. We also saw a team fight their a$$ off and compete on the road in some legendary road venues. What failed us was depth. Dino has had 2 classes. In those 2 classes, including transfers, he has quickly improved the overall size and athleticism. The only problem is those guys are still going to be young. Throw this past recruiting class in and you are going to see an even bigger improvement in size. I do want to see an improvement on offense. For being an offensive guru I have been a little surprised that the scoring hasn't been better. The yards are there, but they haven't turned into points. imo it could be a couple things. As I said yards haven't been an issue, but they have really struggled inside the red zone. I think the lack of a run game has really hurt the efficiency inside the 20. It looks like RB has been addressed this last recruiting(transfer) class. Let's see if we see some improvements inside the red zone.
The other factor, imo, may not be a popular one, but is QB play. Dungey is an absolute warrior, but he isn't the type of QB Dino prefers to run this offense. The short passing game requires a high % passer. Dungey is many things, but accuracy isn't one of his best attributes. I actually think a QB better suited for this system would improve the overall offense. Dungey is good enough where he can will us to 6 wins, but I don't think we will see this offense at it's best until there is a QB that can complete passes at an elite level/
Spot on. I've said it since year 1. Give this team a competent running game, and suddenly the playbook gets a lot deeper inside the red zone, which leads to more td's. I'm afraid Dino has had limited options inside the redzone, which may account for for some of the head scratching calls while in it.
 

sufandu

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WMU, Wagner, Wake, BC, Uconn and one more of 7 games and we get there easily.

Best chances are Pitt and NC State or UNC
I don't see BC as a given, especially with the way they handled us last year. With how close the Pitt game was I put both of them as 50/50 games. If NC State doesn't fall off, put WF in that category too, and UNC bounces back, we'll probably be scratching for those last two wins. I'm not saying we can't get them, just that, if we do get them, it'll be close.
 
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IthacaBarrel

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I see two guaranteed wins Wagner and UCONN. Clemson is a loss down there. FSU with the old USF coach seems like a recipe for disaster for us.

2-2 and everything else is winnable for loseable. Hopefully Lville without Jackson we at least have a shot but that's probably 2-3. Pretty much 50/50 the other 7
 
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I see two guaranteed wins Wagner and UCONN. Clemson is a loss down there. FSU with the old USF coach seems like a recipe for disaster for us.

2-2 and everything else is winnable for loseable. Hopefully Lville without Jackson we at least have a shot but that's probably 2-3. Pretty much 50/50 the other 7
Sober assessment of the situation when we have absolutely no clue how the LBs, WRs and DBs (with all the departures) will turn out, to say nothing about whether or not the OL and running game improve at all.
 

SoBristol

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Sober assessment of the situation when we have absolutely no clue how the LBs, WRs and DBs (with all the departures) will turn out, to say nothing about whether or not the OL and running game improve at all.
Sure, a sober assessment is warranted, coming off 4-8 and 0 for November, facing a tough ACC schedule. Any team is going to have open issues about a couple of its units, as we do after losing veteran LBs and veteran WRs.

If you want to be optimistic, you can see that the roster is better in several units. We do know we have 4 members of the OL back, plus Roberts returning from injury, and our TE and H-back also return. It is reasonable to expect our very young OL in 2017 will be stronger and better. Our RBs improved from 2016 to 2017 -- why not another step in their progress? Similar with our DEs, who played early, now have another year of S&C, and will be better in their 3rd collegiate year. Josh Black played well as a true frosh in 2016 -- he is now up to 285 lbs. So, can't we project improvement in Black and other linemen on both sides?
 

Pyle

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I know what I said and it most assuredly doesn't mean what you're trying to twist it to say in order to fit your narrative. If you can't see the complete absence of logic in your non-sequitar, I'd suggest starting with Aristotle's on Sophistical Refutations.
Ok Aristotle, instead of insulting me why not just explain what you meant and clear up the confusion?
 

Pyle

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First of all lets not forget that Amba was a Babers get so he did fill a need initially very nicely. But I think we will have a blip of slightly less talent at WR in 2018. But come on regarding "that means SS recruited better at WR". The situation has little to do with Babers ability to recruit the WR position. The future looks bright at that spot. Babers "first" class was 2016 and he had very little time to finish it off. He was unable to get a real solid WR in that initial class but Butler still has a chance. I'll admit though that was a little surprising to me as I thought he'd be able bring in a stud even in the shortened time frame. However his 2017 and 2018 classes look great at WR to me. Despite that replacing Ish and Erv next year is still going to be difficult because Babers first full recruiting class of WR's will basically be RS frosh. I do think you see at least one of his guys break out this year though, just not to the level of a Senior Ish or Amba. But you can't expect that from guys so young. My money is on Sharrod breaking out first but I could see RTB or Nykeim doing so as well. If they are not replaced its more likely because Shafer's senior and redshirt senior class of WR's didn't perform ...or make it to campus. Hello KJ Williams and Corey Cooper.
I want to clarify, I don't think we see a big falloff. I have issue with the people who do but can't seem to make the connection that means they are also saying Ish was a better WR than anything we have now, which means Babers didn't fill a need and isn't recruiting as well which they will tell you is absolutely not the case. Either Babers is the recruiter they say he is and we are going to reload, not restart, or he isn't and SS gave him the best WR he's had in the past 3 years. So which is it?
 

Orangello

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Ok Aristotle, instead of insulting me why not just explain what you meant and clear up the confusion?
I'm not Aristotle and I didn't insult you. Sorry you remain confused regarding my post. I believe it's clear and straight forward. This is an internet forum where people express opinions. None of us are required to defend or explain conclusions or interpretations that others choose to make regarding said opinions.
 

Pyle

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I'm not Aristotle and I didn't insult you. Sorry you remain confused regarding my post. I believe it's clear and straight forward. This is an internet forum where people express opinions. None of us are required to defend or explain conclusions or interpretations that others choose to make regarding said opinions.
Are you serious? Sooooo it's not ok to challenge other's opinions on an opinion forum if your opinion differs from their opinion, how opinionated. You basically said I was complete wrong but fail to explain why. Fine, I've pointed out the hole in your logic in other posts. If you don't want to fill it I am left to assume it's either because you can't or ...well I don't really know.
 
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I want to clarify, I don't think we see a big falloff. I have issue with the people who do but can't seem to make the connection that means they are also saying Ish was a better WR than anything we have now, which means Babers didn't fill a need and isn't recruiting as well which they will tell you is absolutely not the case. Either Babers is the recruiter they say he is and we are going to reload, not restart, or he isn't and SS gave him the best WR he's had in the past 3 years. So which is it?
That is a really reasonable point. I would make a few counter arguments though.

#1. Two years ago, Babers DID in fact recruit a more productive receiver than ISH, it was ET.

#2. We did bring in Pierce who, although not a receiver, added a lot to our passing game.

#3. Last year we knew we had ISH/Erv and he was able to redshirt, and sit the younger WRs.

We will find out this year if the Baber’s recruits are up to ISH/Erv/Estime standards. Between Bulter and the Frosh/RF, my guess is the overall receiving production (including TEs) will surpass last years. (More due to improved experience at QB/RB/OL than anything else, but still more production is my guess)
 

Orangello

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Are you serious? Sooooo it's not ok to challenge other's opinions on an opinion forum if your opinion differs from their opinion, how opinionated. You basically said I was complete wrong but fail to explain why. Fine, I've pointed out the hole in your logic in other posts. If you don't want to fill it I am left to assume it's either because you can't or ...well I don't really know.
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I explained very clearly why the conclusions you choose to posit from my simple post were completely illogical. If you cannot understand why, then I can't help you.
 

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RF2044

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That is a really reasonable point. I would make a few counter arguments though.

#1. Two years ago, Babers DID in fact recruit a more productive receiver than ISH, it was ET.

#2. We did bring in Pierce who, although not a receiver, added a lot to our passing game.

#3. Last year we knew we had ISH/Erv and he was able to redshirt, and sit the younger WRs.

We will find out this year if the Baber’s recruits are up to ISH/Erv/Estime standards. Between Bulter and the Frosh/RF, my guess is the overall receiving production (including TEs) will surpass last years. (More due to improved experience at QB/RB/OL than anything else, but still more production is my guess)
Agreed -- not sure what is so difficult about this to get behind. We'll find out really quickly whether the players Babers brought in at WR are capable. Very excited about this young group of wideouts -- now, they need to actualize that potential.

Will also be interesting to see if a kid like Butler steps it up a notch, and becomes the go to guy as an upperclassman.
 

Pyle

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View attachment 122563

I explained very clearly why the conclusions you choose to posit from my simple post were completely illogical. If you cannot understand why, then I can't help you.
Where? All you said was " I believe it's clear and straight forward." and then proceeded to declare that you don't need to explain yourself and continue to do exactly that. Honestly I could care less at this point. Peace be with you.
 

Pyle

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That is a really reasonable point. I would make a few counter arguments though.

#1. Two years ago, Babers DID in fact recruit a more productive receiver than ISH, it was ET.

#2. We did bring in Pierce who, although not a receiver, added a lot to our passing game.

#3. Last year we knew we had ISH/Erv and he was able to redshirt, and sit the younger WRs.

We will find out this year if the Baber’s recruits are up to ISH/Erv/Estime standards. Between Bulter and the Frosh/RF, my guess is the overall receiving production (including TEs) will surpass last years. (More due to improved experience at QB/RB/OL than anything else, but still more production is my guess)
I've been on the fence as to who was better. ISH all time leader in yards, most receptions in a season vs AET and his 14 TDs/1400+ yards in 1 season. I won't argue that you think AET gets the nod. I'm excited about this group. Not worried like some others. I'm more concerned with the trenches and RB. We've got to get more pressure on opposing QBs and improve the running game to make the next step. We do that...I think 7/8 are possible, if not 4-8 it is.
 
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I've been on the fence as to who was better. ISH all time leader in yards, most receptions in a season vs AET and his 14 TDs/1400+ yards in 1 season. I won't argue that you think AET gets the nod. I'm excited about this group. Not worried like some others. I'm more concerned with the trenches and RB. We've got to get more pressure on opposing QBs and improve the running game to make the next step. We do that...I think 7/8 are possible, if not 4-8 it is.
Yeah, it’s not a cut and dry decision but you also have to consider ISH had the benefit of 2 years in the system instead of 1 summer, ISH had the more experienced QB, and ISH didn’t have to compete with Estime/ISH for catches. When ET made his numbers he was competing as one of 4 talented receivers for catches. Last year we had 2 talented receivers and a new (but talented) tight end competing for touches.
 

IthacaMatt

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Sober assessment of the situation when we have absolutely no clue how the LBs, WRs and DBs (with all the departures) will turn out, to say nothing about whether or not the OL and running game improve at all.
Well, I am in the camp that the running game can't be worse than last year, especially with a new, proven OL coach, another year of the line getting to grow up and develop chemistry, and new blood from the RS freshmen we have.
 

IthacaMatt

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Either Babers is the recruiter they say he is and we are going to reload, not restart, or he isn't and SS gave him the best WR he's had in the past 3 years. So which is it?
Players do get better over time. Ish had time in the system. Some of the new guys have, too, but haven't seen the field enough. I think it's a false dichotomy to say a freshman or sophomore has to be as good as a senior, or else we didn't recruit well.
 

721Comstock

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Players do get better over time. Ish had time in the system. Some of the new guys have, too, but haven't seen the field enough. I think it's a false dichotomy to say a freshman or sophomore has to be as good as a senior, or else we didn't recruit well.
Conversely, some of our peer programs (Llvll, Wake) have had Frosh WR's come in and KILL IT right away.
So, while that's not the norm, it's also not out of the realm of possibility.
 

sufandu

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Conversely, some of our peer programs (Llvll, Wake) have had Frosh WR's come in and KILL IT right away.
So, while that's not the norm, it's also not out of the realm of possibility.
I know it's not your main point, but you consider Louisville a peer program?
 

sufandu

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I see two guaranteed wins Wagner and UCONN. Clemson is a loss down there. FSU with the old USF coach seems like a recipe for disaster for us.

2-2 and everything else is winnable for loseable. Hopefully Lville without Jackson we at least have a shot but that's probably 2-3. Pretty much 50/50 the other 7
I understand not considering WMU a guaranteed win, but it needs to become one soon or we really do need to wonder about our progress.
 

CuseOnly

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I don't see BC as a given, especially with the way they handled us last year. With how close the Pitt game was I put both of them as 50/50 games. If NC State doesn't fall off, put WF in that category too, and UNC bounces back, we'll probably be scratching for those last two wins. I'm not saying we can't get them, just that, if we do get them, it'll be close.
We beat BC normally so I put them in the W column. Smae with the rest that I listed.

All the others are toss ups, and we always seem to beat a team we are not supposed to. We just need to not lose to the teams we are supposed to beat and we will be fine.

We have needed play-makers outside of Dungey, we really haven't had any really. Amba and Ish were only as good as the QB throwing to them.
 

sufandu

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We beat BC normally so I put them in the W column. Smae with the rest that I listed.

All the others are toss ups, and we always seem to beat a team we are not supposed to. We just need to not lose to the teams we are supposed to beat and we will be fine.

We have needed play-makers outside of Dungey, we really haven't had any really. Amba and Ish were only as good as the QB throwing to them.
Fair enough. I think the sample size is too small to say one team has been conclusively better. We've only played for 5 years without a break. We've won 3 by a total of 14 points and they've won 2 by a combined 49 points. Which stat is more telling our three wins or their two blowouts? I don't know. I don't think they were a fluke last year. I'm not saying we can't beat them, just that they'll be a tough out.
 

Ish88888

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WMU, Wagner, Wake, BC, Uconn and one more of 7 games and we get there easily.

Best chances are Pitt and NC State or UNC
UNC might be a higher probability than WF and definitely better than BC. I hate BC too but BC might be ready to pop. I lead the charge in making fun of Addazio and meathead fb; but they now have a maturing OL, always have rbs, and actually have 2 qbs that can play. They ran over us this past year and they will be another level next year playing in Boston.
 

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