We really need Frank back | Syracusefan.com

We really need Frank back

DonLightfoot said:
Agree. I also have to laugh a bit too. Can you imagine this being said on this Forum two years ago?
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Yeah. The list of guards who struggled early and got a lot better and became good/great college players is far longer than the list of guards who came in and played well from day 1.

It’s easy to forget guys like Autry and Hart were looked at as disappointments early on. Allen Griffin and Z Sims made their names as seniors(Z in his 5th year!). Scoop. Gbinije. 5th year seniors when they had their best years that we remember.
 
OrangeDW said:
Yeah. The list of guards who struggled early and got a lot better and became good/great college players is far longer than the list of guards who came in and played well from day 1.

It’s easy to forget guys like Autry and Hart were looked at as disappointments early on. Allen Griffin and Z Sims made their names as seniors(Z in his 5th year!). Scoop. Gbinije. 5th year seniors when they had their best years that we remember.
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Agree with all that. Rautins too. Friggin Sherman Douglas was a reserve as a freshman.

The list of guards who excelled as a frosh is, what, three? Pearl, Gmac and Flynn. Triche was an important part of the 09-10 team but has the huge benefit of being like the sixth option on that team. Devendorf became an important piece of the team by the end of his frosh year I guess.

Also why I’ve been very skeptical of some of the posts about buddy being a major contributor this year.
 
Waltdods said:
Agree with all that. Rautins too. Friggin Sherman Douglas was a reserve as a freshman.

The list of guards who excelled as a frosh is, what, three? Pearl, Gmac and Flynn. Triche was an important part of the 09-10 team but has the huge benefit of being like the sixth option on that team. Devendorf became an important piece of the team by the end of his frosh year I guess.

Also why I’ve been very skeptical of some of the posts about buddy being a major contributor this year.
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Yup. I think you basically nailed them. Plus Ennis.
 
OrangeDW said:
Yup. I think you basically nailed them. Plus Ennis.
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if we're talking guards, then Mali too. I know he played forward for us, but he was a guard on offense. Cooney as a RS freshman was pretty good. Edelin was also useful.
 
NYCorange said:
if we're talking guards, then Mali too. I know he played forward for us, but he was a guard on offense. Cooney as a RS freshman was pretty good. Edelin was also useful.
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IMO: Mali: I was thinking more PG’s or at least SG’s who handled the ball a lot. Mali played the bottom of the zone and was largely playing off the ball offensively.

Cooney kinda sucked as a RS freshman. 3.4 ppg and shot 32%.

Edelin - yes. Big time player.
 
DonLightfoot said:
Agree. I also have to laugh a bit too. Can you imagine this being said on this Forum two years ago?
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Doesn't that worry you?

Frank is going to be the savior and the glue that keeps the whole thing together?

I sure hope so, but I keep getting flashbacks of lazy cross-court passes that were turned into fast breaks the other way.

Frank as the spoon that stirs the drink? I guess we better hope so.
 
OrangeDW said:
IMO: Mali: I was thinking more PG’s or at least SG’s who handled the ball a lot. Mali played the bottom of the zone and was largely playing off the ball offensively.

Cooney kinda sucked as a RS freshman. 3.4 ppg and shot 32%.

Edelin - yes. Big time player.
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Yah ur right. I was thinking of his sophomore year I guess.
 
OrangeDW said:
IMO: Mali: I was thinking more PG’s or at least SG’s who handled the ball a lot. Mali played the bottom of the zone and was largely playing off the ball offensively.

Cooney kinda sucked as a RS freshman.

Edelin - yes. Big time player.
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Good catch on Ennis. He was certainly a capable player as a frosh and a huge part of a pretty good team. I think he got massively overrated by win 20 and then probably a little underrated in retrospect.

Mali is a good one, though like you I don’t really think of him as a guard bc of the role he played here.

Edelin was great in the championship season. I didn’t include him because he had first enrolled a year earlier but in retrospect not sure that’s a meaningful distinction.

I’m generally pro-cooney but he was not good his first year.
 
Townie72 said:
Doesn't that worry you?

Frank is going to be the savior and the glue that keeps the whole thing together?

I sure hope so, but I keep getting flashbacks of lazy cross-court passes that were turned into fast breaks the other way.

Frank as the spoon that stirs the drink? I guess we better hope so.
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We know he’s a strong defender. Way better than Buddy and Jalen at this point, as a 5th year guy.

We know he can hit the 3 at a respectable clip. He made 67 3’s last year at a 33% clip.

While he had his struggles and maddening decisions last year, they were fewer than the year before. He improved. No reason not to expect a little more improvement there this year.

And he has shown good court vision and passing ability at times. Certainly further along than Buddy and Jalen(and Tyus) in that regard.

Given what we have gotten out of the guard spot played by Buddy/Jalen so far, Frank will be an enormous upgrade. Did you hear Jimmy’s press conference last night?
 
We miss him, but Frank would have stuggled with their tight D too. His handle is the least improved part of his game IMHO. We need to get Frank back and get roles and minutes established.
 
Newhouser said:
We miss him, but Frank would have stuggled with their tight D too. His handle is the least improved part of his game IMHO. We need to get Frank back and get roles and minutes established.
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While probably true, he also likely would’ve played better defense and hit a few shots and scored minimum 8 points or so even in a bad game by this point of his career, and probably created at least a few more hoops with good passes.

We got zero out of Buddy/Jalen last night and still scored 84 and won by 14.
 
Newhouser said:
We miss him, but Frank would have stuggled with their tight D too. His handle is the least improved part of his game IMHO. We need to get Frank back and get roles and minutes established.
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How do we know if it’s improved or not? He hasn’t played.
 
Even I’m wishing the return of Frank post-haste! I think it is fair to ponder the possibility of Frank struggling against those guards too last night. Eerily reminded me of that NC St team last year who came in and gave our guards fits getting anywhere they wanted to on the court. Buffalo too a bit but UB got a lot of points from that undersized C.

Some posters won’t like it. But, you’re just going to have these kinds of struggles against teams like this at SU with the combo guard types here who are zone D fits first. Other teams welcome the Morehead D and discard them like lint on a shirt. But too many combo guys as guards handling the ball who aren’t the best ballhandlers to begin with and not the fastest guys will always be an Achillies Heel here, IMO. We won yes but it wasn’t because of the guards. Frank would’ve helped too for sure but he would have had his share of problems with them I think. Defensively he would’ve really helped unless this would’ve been a repeat of the NC St game where we couldn’t stop their guards from getting anywhere they wanted to.
 
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NYCorange said:
if we're talking guards, then Mali too. I know he played forward for us, but he was a guard on offense. Cooney as a RS freshman was pretty good. Edelin was also useful.
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Edelin was quite useful.
 
OrangeDW said:
Yup. I think you basically nailed them. Plus Ennis.
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Um, Sherm had some decent production as a Frosh.
In 27 games played, he averaged 5.4 pts, 2.1 dimes, 1.6 boards.
JB moved Pearl to SG to play both at times.

IF Sherm didn't have all-timer Pearl blocking his path to serious minutes as a Frosh, he'd probably still have the NCAA assist record, and also quite possibly be our all-time leading scorer.
 
Dcuse said:
Wow. Still people trying to slowly turn this thread into a hate on Frank. Amazing.
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Wrong. No question we need him. Not rocket science to suggest he would struggle some against those guys. I like Morehead’s team. It’s more about a systemic issue with the combo guards and praise of MSU’s guards. Not an indictment of or towards Frank.
 
721Comstock said:
Um, Sherm had some decent production as a Frosh.
In 27 games played, he averaged 5.4 pts, 2.1 dimes, 1.6 boards.
JB moved Pearl to SG to play both at times.

IF Sherm didn't have all-timer Pearl blocking his path to serious minutes as a Frosh, he'd probably still have the NCAA assist record, and also quite possibly be our all-time leading scorer.
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Slightly before my fan experiences memory kicks in! I was sticking to the ones I knew which is why I started with Autry.

I remember Sherman as the veteran star. Given how he exploded as a soph, it makes sense that he was ready as a freshman but caught behind one of the best players in the country!
 
The one thing that amazed me was how many clean picks the Morehead guards had last night. You may see one of these a game or every few games but last night there was at least 4 clean steals. We were either lazy with the ball, dribbling too high or just not paying attention to our dribble. It would seem to me this would be point guard basic training. I agree we need Frank back ASAP.
 
Pretty sure we win by 20 plus with Frank last night because he makes the defense better and at worst scores 10 points. It also gives Battle a break.

Not like he would have been worst than Carey or B.B.
 
Townie72 said:
Doesn't that worry you?

Frank is going to be the savior and the glue that keeps the whole thing together?

I sure hope so, but I keep getting flashbacks of lazy cross-court passes that were turned into fast breaks the other way.

Frank as the spoon that stirs the drink? I guess we better hope so.
Expand...

For the record Frank shot 38% from 3 and averaged less than 3 TPG in ACC play last year. He was our best shooter in conference play.

He got off to a slow start and looked like he was throwing the UConn game, but he improved a lot as the season went on.
 
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