We really need Frank back

[CuseFaninVT]

What I don't have any faith in is the collective non-wisdom of some who have somehow arrived at the conclusion that all this teams needs is Frank back.

Frank was still turning the ball over last year.

Your idea that I don't have faith in JB is weak. If that's all you've got, why bother. JB has to play who he has. The rash of PG injuries isn't under his control.

I'm sorry, are you expecting no turnovers? That would be something. I have confidence now that there are a couple more competent options on offense, Frank will have more assists and far less TOs.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'm sorry, are you expecting no turnovers? That would be something. I have confidence now that there are a couple more competent options on offense, Frank will have more assists and far less TOs.

I posted in an earlier post how Frank's turnovers went down in conference play and shooting went up in conference play.

His non-conference turnovers were high last year and a lot of that was the UConn game.

He didn't respond. Why bother?

 

[SoBeCuse]

It's kind of a double edge sword, so to speak. Recruiting taller guards (because of the 100% zone) who are more suited as off guards vs. a true point, who has the required/ideal ball handling prowess, etc. at this level.

The root of it I think.

 

[OttoMets]

Sounds like you don't have faith in the squad as JB put it together. There are few players that owe their longevity at SU to JAB more than one Franklin Howard.

And your flashbacks feel like they are from two years ago or longer.

But he did throw the word "lazy" into his critique. Shocking.

 

[OttoMets]

I'd give Jalen Carey some time before you decide he's a combo guy and not a point. He's very talented and definitely sees the court well. Yes he got picked by some junk yard dogs the other night, but that's going to happen. Triche struggled bringing the ball up. Frank struggled. It takes time to get used to the pressure and quickness and build confidence. Right now, Jalen's long arms are an open invitation for steels. Once he learns how to use his body to shield defenders, that length is going to be a weapon.

Reminded me of Michael Carter-Williams as a freshman: no clue about the amount of effort required on defense (move your feet, stop the ball!), and no clue how quick opposing guards will be to get a hand on your dribble.

Carey will improve with game reps. While he's out there experiencing the speed and strength of opponents, the learning curve will be steep.

 

[Consigliere]

What I don't have any faith in is the collective non-wisdom of some who have somehow arrived at the conclusion that all this teams needs is Frank back.

Frank was still turning the ball over last year.

Your idea that I don't have faith in JB is weak. If that's all you've got, why bother. JB has to play who he has. The rash of PG injuries isn't under his control.

Frank was much better with the ball over the last half of the season. Had a terrible game against UNC with 7 TOs but other than that he averaged just over 2 TO / G over the last dozen games. Not bad for a PG playing 40 minutes.

 

[RF2044]

What I don't have any faith in is the collective non-wisdom of some who have somehow arrived at the conclusion that all this teams needs is Frank back.

Frank was still turning the ball over last year.

Your idea that I don't have faith in JB is weak. If that's all you've got, why bother. JB has to play who he has. The rash of PG injuries isn't under his control.

Having a senior PG / experienced starter available > not having this player available.

Having a senior PG / experienced starter available > Battle attempting to run the offense, playing out of position.

Having a senior PG / experienced starter available > playing a true frosh who is 1-18 from the field in two games.

The impact of Frank's absence is also exacerbated by the other two PGs also being injured at the same time.

Really, to suggest that the team isn't hurt by his absence is nonsense. Your straw man about "...all this team needs is Frank back" completely misses the indisputable point that the team with Frank is better than the team without him. Warts and all.

Having alternatives to Frank [Carey's speed / scoring, Washington's steady lead guard aptitude] are what will stabilize the PG position this year, and make the team stronger than last year.

 

[RF2044]

I'd give Jalen Carey some time before you decide he's a combo guy and not a point. He's very talented and definitely sees the court well. Yes he got picked by some junk yard dogs the other night, but that's going to happen. Triche struggled bringing the ball up. Frank struggled. It takes time to get used to the pressure and quickness and build confidence. Right now, Jalen's long arms are an open invitation for steels. Once he learns how to use his body to shield defenders, that length is going to be a weapon.

I love Carey's potential, and think he's going to be a terrific player for our program. His injury was incredibly poorly timed -- especially with Frank being out. Cost him valuable practice time and the opportunity to get some developmental PT in the second exhibition game.

Seeing him struggle last game, it was clear that the down time where he was recuperating from the injury was a big setback.

 

[Townie72]

Having a senior PG / experienced starter available > not having this player available

Having a senior PG / experienced starter available > Tyus Battle playing out of position

Frank's absence is also exacerbated by the other two PGs also being injured at the same time.

Really, to suggest otherwise is nonsense. Your straw man about "...all this team needs is Frank back" completely misses the indisputable point that the team with Frank is better than the team without him. Warts and all.

Speaking of straw men, I don’t recognize any of what I said on you post.

SU is absolutely better off with Frank back. No question about it.

BUT,

He’s been laid up for weeks, unable to run, jump, etc. So when he gets back on the court he will be weeks behind where he would have been.

His handle has always been a little weak and through his career he has shown a thrown some very flaky passes in the front court that have been picked off.

So while he is without question a key to SU this season as has now been amply demonstrated by the teams performance without a real, experienced PG, let’s not go overboard here. Expectations for the first several weeks he is back ought to be tempered.

 

[DonLightfoot]

During the North Carolina broadcast last night Jay Bilas said Frank is back. Was he misreading something or just that he is doing some practice?

 

[RF2044]

During the North Carolina broadcast last night Jay Bilas said Frank is back. Was he misreading something or just that he is doing some practice?

He started practicing last week.

 

[rrlbees]

What I don't have any faith in is the collective non-wisdom of some who have somehow arrived at the conclusion that all this teams needs is Frank back.

Frank was still turning the ball over last year.

Your idea that I don't have faith in JB is weak. If that's all you've got, why bother. JB has to play who he has. The rash of PG injuries isn't under his control.

Frank turned it over at about 4.5 per game the first half of the season. The second half including tourneys it was about 2.5 per game including 2.0 during the ncaas. Great improvement. And with usually 40mpg, it’s even better.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Have a feeling hes out until OSU

 

[TacoTime75]

Have a feeling hes out until OSU

I'd tell the UConn beat writer the same thing

 

[Townie72]

Frank turned it over at about 4.5 per game the first half of the season. The second half including tourneys it was about 2.5 per game including 2.0 during the ncaas. Great improvement. And with usually 40mpg, it’s even better.

Well, the statistics don't lie so I am not going to argue with them.

But, there are turnovers and there are turnovers.

But I have this impression based on watching all these games that when Frank does turn it over it's frequently foolishly. I guess what sticks in my mind are a number of nonchalant, lazy passes across to Tyus (usually) that were easily picked off and turned into dunks and weren't just changes in possession as with most turnovers. (Which is bad enough)

I think Frank is a good player. I like the kid. I'll be glad to see him back, especially now that I have seen a little of the alternatives.

With this long lay-off, we'll see whether his TO's are closer to 4.5 than they are to 2.0 per game. Or whether he can stay at the same level of concentration and care that he was able to get to at the end of last season.

 

[DaCuse]

I get the feeling his injury is a lot worse that we were let on to believe.

 

[orangecuse]

I get the feeling his injury is a lot worse that we were let on to believe.

For sure. When the news broke, it was he'd be back one week before the start of the first game...along with some other "no worries" remarks. Time will tell how productive he ends of being this year. I hope at season's end, we all aren't saying, if Frank was healthy this year...what could've been.

 

[br801]

For sure. When the news broke, it was he'd be back one week before the start of the first game...along with some other "no worries" remarks. Time will tell how productive he ends of being this year. I hope at season's end, we all aren't saying, if Frank was healthy this year...what could've been.

If Frank isn't healthy for the long haul, Washington and Carey will have to step up at the point. It wouldn't be the same on either end, but they are talented and a very successful season would not be out of the question.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Count me in as someone who thinks Frank will be fine long term.

I’d rather have them be conservative with his injury and it sounds like they are.

 

[orangecuse]

If Frank isn't healthy for the long haul, Washington and Carey will have to step up at the point. It wouldn't be the same on either end, but they are talented and a very successful season would not be out of the question.

That's my point, 'they'll have to step up.' Can they? Possibly, but it'll remain to be seen if they actually do so until it plays out. I'm not implying that the talent isn't there, but it's certainly green and unproven with Carey and Washington.

 

[jordoo]

I expect Frank to play Thursday. Carey was two weeks out 4 days before the Moorehead St game which he played in.

 

[br801]

That's my point, 'they'll have to step up.' Can they? Possibly, but it'll remain to be seen if they actually do so until it plays out. I'm not implying that the talent isn't there, but it's certainly green and unproven with Carey and Washington.

Of course they can. Carey is a big-time talent and Washington has already shown flashes of being a capable game manager at this level. How quickly it would happen would be the question, but I'm sure they would eventually figure it out if they has to assume increased responsibilities.

 

[kcsu]

Any coach or player will tell you the first skill that goes after inactivity is
The handle.

 

[shermstheman]

Who would have thought there would ever be a thread titled, “we really need Frank back”? This time last year their were many Frank haters, guess there are some left but Frank changed a lot of people’s minds. Go Frank!

 

[bozophobe]

Well, the statistics don't lie so I am not going to argue with them.

But, there are turnovers and there are turnovers.

But I have this impression based on watching all these games that when Frank does turn it over it's frequently foolishly. I guess what sticks in my mind are a number of nonchalant, lazy passes across to Tyus (usually) that were easily picked off and turned into dunks and weren't just changes in possession as with most turnovers. (Which is bad enough)

I think Frank is a good player. I like the kid. I'll be glad to see him back, especially now that I have seen a little of the alternatives.

With this long lay-off, we'll see whether his TO's are closer to 4.5 than they are to 2.0 per game. Or whether he can stay at the same level of concentration and care that he was able to get to at the end of last season.

I'd kind of prefer boneheaded mistakes over subtler flaws - easier to correct. And those trying to show you Frank's overall non-horrid stats are right. Hell, I even recall Frank as a freshman holding down the fort for certain stretches without doing any real damage. I hope Frank is experiencing the "Scoop Effect;" making bad plays but still evolving and being efficient overall, despite the reputation clinging endlessly to them.

We know it won't happen, but it would be nice if Jim Boeheim would institute a more rigorous pass-mastering regimen. If certain guards aren't fit to carry on the iso playground-esque tradition a la Pearl and Sherm, or the system won't accommodate these leaner, taller guys, why blame them for everything?