We were fooled

Hoo's That

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Sort of agree, but it is a new normal to have to play them in the first game of the year.

And I get that the blue bloods often have to play a competitive first game of the year, so we shouldn't use it as an excuse.

I'm not very confident that things will improve much, and 34 points is just something to behold, but that is a tough draw in game 1 for all the new faces.
I don't think opening with a conference game will be repeated. I haven't seen any reports of fans, players, or coaches saying anything positive about it, especially the coaches. I think they did it this year just to hype the ACC Network and I think the negativity from the coaches will kill it for the future. The 20-game schedule really only requires moving up the start of conference play by a week, not with starting the season with conference games.
 

moqui

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Is that our "new normal?" When Virginia comes to town we're comfortable getting blown out year after year after year by them because they play great defense? Have we just accepted that they're a heavyweight and we're a middleweight?
no, but there is no reason we can't be level headed, rational, and deal with things as they are and not how we wish them to be.

bennet's system has flummoxed nearly everyone the last 5 years. jb needs to go back to the practice floor and come up with some wrinkles. he gets them again in january, i expect to see improvement.

syracuse ran the same offense vs uva that they did vs carleton. or tried to run, anyway, but the cavs stymied them, as they have so many others.

but that offense ran well against a very good carleton squad and will run well against others and will get better as the season moves along and all the freshmen and sophs get more experience. i'm looking forward to the jan. 11 rematch and anticipate seeing a better version of syracuse on the floor
 
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Cusefan0307

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no, but there is no reason we can't be level headed, rational, and deal with things as they are and now how we wish them to be.

bennet's system has flummoxed nearly everyone the last 5 years. jb needs to go back to the practice floor and come up with some wrinkles. he gets them again in january, i expect to see improvement.

syracuse ran the same offense vs uva that they did vs carleton. or tried to run, anyway, but the cavs stymied them, as they have so many others.

but that offense ran well against a very good carleton squad and will run well against others and will get better as the season moves along and all the freshmen and sophs get more experience. i'm looking forward to the jan. 11 rematch and anticipate seeing a better version of syracuse on the floor
I really hope this is the case and I know the players have changed(for both schools), but the concerning part to me is we lose to them the SAME way every time we play them(outside of the EE/2017 season).

At this point I'm just automatically chalking up the UVA/UNC games as losses because we basically are the Washington Generals for them.
 

moqui

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I really hope this is the case and I know the players have changed(for both schools), but the concerning part to me is we lose to them the SAME way every time we play them(outside of the EE/2017 season).

At this point I'm just automatically chalking up the UVA/UNC games as losses because we basically are the Washington Generals for them.
they are 179-36 since we entered the acc. 90-19 in conference. they've won 5 of the last 6 vs unc, who in that stretch has never scored over 65 and has been held under 45 twice. virginia has a lot of washington generals

it sucks that they have su's number right now, but generally a lot of folks on this forum seem to forget that there are two teams trying to win games, and the other players and coaches have plans, schemes and talents, too.
 
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Alsacs

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they are 179-36 since we entered the acc. 90-19 in conference. they have a lot of washington generals

it sucks that they have su's number right now, but generally a lot of folks on this forum seem to forget that there are two teams trying to win games, and the other players and coaches have plans, schemes and talents, too.
We have scored 494 points against UVa in 9 games during our ACC tenure. An average of 55 PPG.
That isn't going to beat good teams.
Our scheme doesn't work against smart, well prepared, give effort defensive teams. That is UVa.

Our zone gets shredded by UNC because they tell their players don't worry about your first shot, you will out-tough, out-work them on the boards and score off misses. All UNC has to do is not turn the ball over and they play volleyball.

Why does this happen time after time recently? The answer is we never change. Our talent used to be good enough where really nobody had superior talent across the board. That isn't the case now. That goes to systems. Our system has to be tweeked when a team with equal/more talent knows to beat it.
 

moqui

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We have scored 494 points against UVa in 9 games during our ACC tenure. An average of 55 PPG.
That isn't going to beat good teams.
Our scheme doesn't work against smart, well prepared, give effort defensive teams. That is UVa.

Our zone gets shredded by UNC because they tell their players don't worry about your first shot, you will out-tough, out-work them on the boards and score off misses. All UNC has to do is not turn the ball over and they play volleyball.

Why does this happen time after time recently? The answer is we never change. Our talent used to be good enough where really nobody had superior talent across the board. That isn't the case now. That goes to systems. Our system has to be tweeked when a team with equal/more talent knows to beat it.
ok coach
 

Gabjon

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We have scored 494 points against UVa in 9 games during our ACC tenure. An average of 55 PPG.
That isn't going to beat good teams.
Our scheme doesn't work against smart, well prepared, give effort defensive teams. That is UVa.

Our zone gets shredded by UNC because they tell their players don't worry about your first shot, you will out-tough, out-work them on the boards and score off misses. All UNC has to do is not turn the ball over and they play volleyball.

Why does this happen time after time recently? The answer is we never change. Our talent used to be good enough where really nobody had superior talent across the board. That isn't the case now. That goes to systems. Our system has to be tweeked when a team with equal/more talent knows to beat it.
Basketball is not football. Only coaches who can't coach can be out schemed. For example JB owned Roy William winning 4 of his first 5 games he coached against him. Starting in 2015 JB is 0 for 7 vs Williams. JB didn't forget how to coach and Roy didn't get better as a coach. One school was hit by sanctions and one school magically avoided them.....
 

Alsacs

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Basketball is not football. Only coaches who can't coach can be out schemed. For example JB owned Roy William winning 4 of his first 5 games he coached against him. Starting in 2015 JB is 0 for 7 vs Williams. JB didn't forget how to coach and Roy didn't get better as a coach. One school was hit by sanctions and one school magically avoided them...
They do exactly what I say. Watch when UNC plays SU. They don't care if they miss shots they outrebound us by a ton and get second chance points.
They know exactly that if they don't turn the ball over they have a great chance to score.
It's not sanctions.
 

two3zone

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Basketball is not football. Only coaches who can't coach can be out schemed. For example JB owned Roy William winning 4 of his first 5 games he coached against him. Starting in 2015 JB is 0 for 7 vs Williams. JB didn't forget how to coach and Roy didn't get better as a coach. One school was hit by sanctions and one school magically avoided them...
One recruits well and one doesn't.
 

Gabjon

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But there's nothing in the sanctions that mandates that we have to play an offense that is predicated around 5 guys not operating as a cohesive unit.
We don't have bigs that can score in the post, which allows teams to load up against us. If you think sanctions and recruiting are unrelated than what are the effects of sanctions?

They do exactly what I say. Watch when UNC plays SU. They don't care if they miss shots they outrebound us by a ton and get second chance points.
They know exactly that if they don't turn the ball over they have a great chance to score.
It's not sanctions.
There is a reason that we are recruiting bigs, and the misses on quality bigs are so critical. The schemes have not changed the quality of the players running the schemes has changed.
 

Cheriehoop

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Those that choose to be fooled were fooled. Where were we ranked preseason? We weren’t - there is a reason for that. The media was filled with articles pointing out our weaknesses yet some fans decided to heap huge expectations on incoming freshmen, an oft injured center who has played sparingly in spurts his first 2 years, a good scoring small forward who is now replacing our go to player, a good sophomore 3 point shooter, a fast but unproven sophomore point guard and a willowy thin, savvy low scoring junior power forward also playing after an injury who didn’t even play in Italy etc. Does Guerrier want to play inside where we really need him or hoping to follow fellow Canadian Brissette’s example floating to the perimeter ? We were playing Virginia ranked 11th not Colgate etc like most years. Last year we didn’t play our first ranked team till almost 6 weeks later(Dec 18) against #15 Buffalo. I’m all in on being positive but also like tempering it with some logic and reality too.

Personally I hope these kids don’t get too down on themselves and dedicate themselves to being a true team. They aren’t going to win by putting the load on a single player, they have to work hard and work together to score and forge an identity. I’m looking forward to the future - I think we have some players here who can have impact with time and experience. I don’t see any one and dones and I think that’s a good thing for the future and these young players development. These kids need to create offense not by looking to see if there’s a quick basket off their set and then throwing it like a hot potato around the perimeter to a designated go to guy to create for himself - but by setting good screens, picks, cutting to the basket, crisp passing etc for each other. I was pleasantly surprised with our defense (inside needs to be more active though) and the kid‘s effort on the court. We couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn - our free throw shooting was even horrible. This year we need to have better than average perimeter shooting to win.

Looking forward to seeing if these kids continue to battle through negativity and have the work ethic to transform themselves into a team that our opponents have to always worry about facing. Adding some additional slashing scoring,inside physical presence and a true playmaker in the next 2 years will be crucial to maximize the experience this year’s team should gain.
 

Hoo's That

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What UNC tries to do against us is to make us collapse our defense further and further under the backboard and then keep volleyballing tip attempts until either the ball goes in or they can grab it and restart their offense with a new shot clock. It's a "cool day in Hades" when a UNC player gets called for "over the back", despite the unbelievable number of rebounds and tips they get when they're boxed out by a defensive player.

dook also tries to make our defense collapse under the backboard, but they've had beefier forwards who would try to grab the rebound rather than keep volleyballing it off the backboard.
 

Eric15

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We don't have bigs that can score in the post, which allows teams to load up against us. If you think sanctions and recruiting are unrelated than what are the effects of sanctions?
But are sanctions the reason we don't have bigs that can't score in the post, or more because for some reason JB values extremely large humans with pterodactyl wing-spans (Chewy, Sidibe, Chino Obokoh, etc.) over players with genuine basketball skills.
 

Gabjon

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But are sanctions the reason we don't have bigs that can't score in the post, or more because for some reason JB values extremely large humans with pterodactyl wing-spans (Chewy, Sidibe, Chino Obokoh, etc.) over players with genuine basketball skills.
Well JB and all coaches think they can teach basketball skills (if they don't they need a new job) but you can't teach size and length. Also we needed guys with no academic questions and the truth is there aren't as many quality bigs coming out of high school as there use to be because kids don't work on their post games like they use to.
But nn coach is going to change thier system over sanctions, just coach through it.
 

kcsu

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I keep hearing that Gmac wasnt recruting during that timeframe either because he was 3rd chair, I hop Red got paid extra since he literally recruited every player since 2013 except Tyus Battle.
Gerry is getting better. He will never come close to Hop as a recruiter. Still he closed Joe and has finished 2nd or 3rd on others.
 

Ghost

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But there's nothing in the sanctions that mandates that we have to play an offense that is predicated around 5 guys not operating as a cohesive unit.
Do we know that for certain? It never occurred to me, but maybe that's exactly what it is!

You cannot have guards! No guards for you!
 

SaltLakeOrange

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It’s been one game against arguably the greatest defensive minded coach in the country
That offensive effort was total and complete crap. Isolation ball against a pack line? Are you kidding me? Sure VA is excellent, but we aren't even mediocre.
 

TinyManInside

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I don’t think everyone was fooled. If you look over the Iggy predictions you see a fair amount of sub 20 win season predictions. I expected another 15 loss type of year and bubbilicious postseason. That’s what the program has been for 5 straight years.
 

TinyManInside

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I won't accept that the sky is falling yet. Btw nobody held UVa under 50 last year.
hahahahaha. The team that beat us on Wednesday didn’t have Guy, Hunter, and Jerome like last year’s team. If you put those guys on the floor the final score would have been like 78-34. Saying they didn’t score under 50 last year is completely irrelevant when they lost like 65% of their scoring.
 

supp

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hahahahaha. The team that beat us on Wednesday didn’t have Guy, Hunter, and Jerome like last year’s team. If you put those guys on the floor the final score would have been like 78-34. Saying they didn’t score under 50 last year is completely irrelevant when they lost like 65% of their scoring.
If the the aftermath of the UVA game turns out like the other "marquee" matchups we've had early in the season in recent years, look for them to get beaten like a drum the next time they play a decent power 5 team.
 

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