We're still a very good program

[Millhouse]

I compare Syracuse to teams like Arizona, Michigan State, Purdue,Louisville, Florida.
Only one of those teams have made the Final Four the last 5 years but they aren’t stagnant like our program has been.

arizona is 77th this year

you guys would be the world of warcraft freaking out kid looking for remote controls to bury if we had ended up 77th

 

[Cusefan0307]

I’d rather be Syracuse than Arizona right now. That’s easy.

 

[GoSU96]

if they've been mediocre, why do so many teams have trouble being consistenly mediocre? Throw out the final 4 criteria, there are only 13 teams that have been ranked 44th or better all 5 years. Baylor is one of them coincidentally

Sears, c'mon

Consider the source

 

[supp]

We're in the best conference over the past 5 years, which boosts SRS. We're no better than middling in that conference over that same stretch yet somehow we're among the top programs in the country? And no cherry picking of statistics is going to change the future outlook. The final fours sure are nice but anyone realistically think we're sniffing that in the near future? I thought we've all been debating the future for the past 10 hours or so, not the past.

 

[Eric15]

I know people are upset that we haven't been great the last 5 years but here is the list of teams that have an SRS rating (schedule adjusted point differential) of 44 or better the last 5 years that have also made a final 4 in that time

Duke
Gonzaga
Michigan State
Kentucky
Kansas
Villanova
Syracuse

That's good company. That's a bad stretch for Boeheim and it's still something that most schools can't accomplish. Stop being babies.

Boeheim knows the zone gives us a high floor and that does count for something and it doesn't stop us from sweet 16s and final 4s. People are making it out like this is some dragged out sucky period where we have to indulge the old man. Temple comparisons? Cheney couldn't win 20 in the A10 those late years

I appreciate you trying to be optimistic, but those schools win conference championships and attract elite recruits and are consistently 1 and 2 seeds in the tournament. They aren't on pins and needles on Selection Sunday like we have mostly been over the 5 years (besides this year) hoping for a miracle from the committee.

 

[GoSU96]

What's this team look like with one of Lydon, Richardson, Thompson, or Bazley on it?

 

[Millhouse]

top 44 every year with a final four and another sweet 16 drops Michigan State from the list

Duke
Gonzaga
Kentucky
Kansas
Villanova
Syracuse
UNC (EDIT i missed them)

Those other teams have had great years and we haven't, I agree

 

[Millhouse]

I appreciate you trying to be optimistic, but those schools win conference championships and attract elite recruits and are consistently 1 and 2 seeds in the tournament. They aren't on pins and needles on Selection Sunday like we have mostly been over the 5 years (besides this year) hoping for a miracle from the committee.

I agree those teams have been way better. My point is more about every other team not in that list. Being great every year would be wonderful. Being good every year is still rare.

 

[PhatOrange]

Ehh somehow I doubt fans would be cool with that. I was a little kid then but weren't the early to mid 80s miserable due to not doing well in March? I definitely remember my dad talking about people wanting JB fired because he can't win games in the tournament.

yes exactly and this happened, I remember. That was the knock.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Part of the problem was the 2009-2014 ish run which is so good and probably an anomaly that people keep wanting those years

We recruited like a big boy selector school those years. It’s all about talent and our stale brand makes it impossible to get the talent.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I agree those teams have been way better. My point is more about every other team not in that list. Being great every year would be wonderful. Being good every year is still rare.

But we’re not even good milly. I’d say good is top 25/4-6 seed. We’re somewhere between mediocre and irrelevant.

 

[Eric15]

In my opinion, the average 5 year span of SU hoops should look like this...

-3 years of being a solid 4/5 seed in the tourney, Sweet 16-level club, single digit losses
-1 year of being elite, a legitimate national title contender, a 2010/2012 type season, 1 or 2 seed in tourney, win or come close to winning conference regular season
-1 year out of five I can live with being on the bubble if we're rebuilding

 

[SUFan44]

Millhouse I know you’re a metrics person and all of this is great. But our players don’t look like other team’s players. Our offense doesn’t look like other tean’s offenses. Our defense is strong based on metrics but I didn’t think our defense was consistently good at all this year.

Also, Top 44 means a first or second round exit every year based on numbers, with a miracle Final Four run that consisted of wins over 7, 15, 11, 1 (which needed an all-time comeback/meltdown).

Sorry, I expect more. Every other 5-year period of Boeheim’s tenure has produced a top-tier seed in a bracket. We have a high water mark of an 8.

Also going to add that next year could be much worse.

 

[FrancoPizza]

What's this team look like with one of Lydon, Richardson, Thompson, or Bazley on it?

How many GD posts about these mythical lineups? Every team has attrition! It’s the staffs job to anticipate and recruit their butts off. Instead we have grandpa Simpson hitting the road to watch his kids’ games.

 

[Scooch]

I agree those teams have been way better. My point is more about every other team not in that list. Being great every year would be wonderful. Being good every year is still rare.

Absolutely true that we take our sustained... goodness?... for granted. There’s really no fundamental reason why Syracuse University basketball should be any better than, say, Seton Hall, aside from having an all-time great head coach and a huge, rabid fan base (and the latter wouldn’t exist without the former).

However, what’s frustrating to me is that, despite the goodness, the style of ball we play is generally awful to watch these days. Now I’ll take that over losing, don’t get me wrong. But it just sucks a lot of joy out of following the program.

I do feel we’re at a crossroads. Going forward we can’t use sanctions as an excuse, nor early departures. The worst impacts of both are in the rear view. JB owns his last 3 years entirely, I believe.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I know people are upset that we haven't been great the last 5 years but here is the list of teams that have an SRS rating (schedule adjusted point differential) of 44 or better the last 5 years that have also made a final 4 in that time

Duke
Gonzaga
Michigan State
Kentucky
Kansas
Villanova
Syracuse

That's good company. That's a bad stretch for Boeheim and it's still something that most schools can't accomplish. Stop being babies.

Boeheim knows the zone gives us a high floor and that does count for something and it doesn't stop us from sweet 16s and final 4s. People are making it out like this is some dragged out sucky period where we have to indulge the old man. Temple comparisons? Cheney couldn't win 20 in the A10 those late years

Well the trend is downward. I hope it changes but I'm not sure it will until JB retires. Thanks for the data though.

 

[HakAttack]

In my opinion, the average 5 year span of SU hoops should look like this...

-3 years of being a solid 4/5 seed in the tourney, Sweet 16-level club, single digit losses
-1 year of being elite, a legitimate national title contender, a 2010/2012 type season, 1 or 2 seed in tourney, win or come close to winning conference regular season
-1 year out of five I can live with being on the bubble if we're rebuilding

This x 1,000

 

[Dave]

But we’re not even good milly. I’d say good is top 25/4-6 seed. We’re somewhere between mediocre and irrelevant.

Transfer

 

[Ryand877]

It’s the same defense 100% of the time even if it isn’t working and we run the same basic isolation offense that isn’t hard to defend by P5 teams.

Agree with everything, but this the most. Gave up 18- 3's vs. Virgina, 16 vs. Baylor, we don't change anything. Baylor went from zone to man, look what happened. I'm not saying we should have played man all game, I know we had depth issues, I'm saying you have to have more than one tool in your arsenal. Last night was a microcosm of the season in a nutshell.

 

[PhatOrange]

When the stat doesn't measure up to what you're actually seeing with your own eyes, maybe that stat isn't quite as meaningful as you're making it out to be? On what planet would anyone put us in that group over the past 5 years?

5-6 against that group over the past 5. Granted we only played Duke, Michigan State and Gonzaga but it's still .500

I think we've weathered the sanction storm, scholarship reductions and early entries pretty well. People seem to forget the NCAA hammered us and it definitely impacted recruiting.

5 years before sanctions = 149-32

5 years during investigation and since sanctions = 103-70

and yet the bad 5 year sanction period we're still in the top group. Who else could have survived these sanctions? Maybe only the coaches in this group.

 

[Millhouse]

But we’re not even good milly. I’d say good is top 25/4-6 seed. We’re somewhere between mediocre and irrelevant.

i'll ask again. why is it so hard for other schools to be as mediocre and irrelevant

 

[PhatOrange]

I compare Syracuse to teams like Arizona, Michigan State, Purdue,Louisville, Florida.
Only one of those teams have made the Final Four the last 5 years but they aren’t stagnant like our program has been.

you're kidding right? Those teams aren't stagnant?

 

[Millhouse]

Absolutely true that we take our sustained... goodness?... for granted. There’s really no fundamental reason why Syracuse University basketball should be any better than, say, Seton Hall, aside from having an all-time great head coach and a huge, rabid fan base (and the latter wouldn’t exist without the former).

However, what’s frustrating to me is that, despite the goodness, the style of ball we play is generally awful to watch these days. Now I’ll take that over losing, don’t get me wrong. But it just sucks a lot of joy out of following the program.

I do feel we’re at a crossroads. Going forward we can’t use sanctions as an excuse, nor early departures. The worst impacts of both are in the rear view. JB owns his last 3 years entirely, I believe.

I totally agree that it's less entertaining, I take no issue with that

 

[supp]

Absolutely true that we take our sustained... goodness?... for granted. There’s really no fundamental reason why Syracuse University basketball should be any better than, say, Seton Hall, aside from having an all-time great head coach and a huge, rabid fan base (and the latter wouldn’t exist without the former).

However, what’s frustrating to me is that, despite the goodness, the style of ball we play is generally awful to watch these days. Now I’ll take that over losing, don’t get me wrong. But it just sucks a lot of joy out of following the program.

I do feel we’re at a crossroads. Going forward we can’t use sanctions as an excuse, nor early departures. The worst impacts of both are in the rear view. JB owns his last 3 years entirely, I believe.

If we have an all-time great coach (which I agree we do), shouldn't our expectations be higher than good? I'm not sure I could call this year good but fine I'll go along. Eventually, even the all-time greats lose a step or five.

 

[TheHaze315]

Not gonna read any of these comments, just gonna say my part and get out... No. No we’re not..