We're still a very good program

[supp]

Boeheim is healthier than Calhoun. I think you're being ridiculous

Health is only part of the puzzle. There is a reason he's set to be the oldest coach in D-1 history because people eventually lose other capabilities beyond just breathing.

 

[Millhouse]

Why is it so hard for other schools? Well, they don't have the Carrier Dome, a major P5 conference on the East Coast, premier practice facilities, and one of the best fanbases in the country.

But what other schools can't do is missing the point. It's about what should be considered reasonable expectations for a program of our stature, year-in year-out. The other poster provided a 5-year baseline and we're not even close to hitting those marks. Comparing us to the rest of division 1 is like saying, 'well we could be worse'. That kind of thinking just breeds apathy and acceptance.

boeheim is responsible for our stature. boeheim is being compared to boeheim. we aren't great. you think we should always be great. OK. I think we have a hall of famer and there is always a downturn at the end and our downturn is not that bad and i'm grateful we're still pretty good

 

[Millhouse]

Health is only part of the puzzle. There is a reason he's set to be the oldest coach in D-1 history because people eventually lose other capabilities beyond just breathing.

you brought up calhoun, not me. calhoun busted his hip ribs, cancer came back, you name it

 

[Fly Rodder]

how am i using it wrong?

It's right in the description of the stat: it's not good for describing how well a team did in the past, but what it could do against an average team.

your last paragraph, I agree. but doesn't that count for something?

Sure, but tenure and having job security goes a long way in keeping a stable program - which is all you're really showing - which P5 schools have the most stable programs.

 

[supp]

you brought up calhoun, not me. calhoun busted his hip ribs, cancer came back, you name it

And I'm sure Calhoun retired and ultimately moved down a level not just because of his health at that moment in time.

I used Calhoun as a model for what he could do if he wants to keep coaching. Not necessarily as parallel to Boeheim's current health situation.

 

[longislandcuse]

Just how bad does it have to get milly? NITs? Losing seasons? By that point, we'd lose thousands of die-hard STHs and you may never get them back. If anything I'd say it would be harder to win them back when its -20 and 10 inches of snow outside.

This.

We see how hard it is to get football fans back.

Can only live off that Final 4 in 2016 for so long. This has not been a stretch of good basketball, and nobody who actually follows CBB, thinks we’re still a “pretty good program”.

You know, I know, that any objective CBB analyst is going to put a qualifier in when discussing Syracuse Basketball until JB retires. That qualifier is not our premier practice facilities, large fanbase, Carrier Dome or East Coast P5, as those things are keeping us afloat...that qualifier is can JB still do it at this level, with his stubborn committment to the Zone.

We used to have CBB analysts describe our zone in admiration. This was when we still got top recruits to play it and 3 point shooting wasn’t the end all/be all of basketball.

That has changed recently... And our coach refuses to adapt.

Now we have it openly mocked (rightfully so), at a time when recruits, everyone is watching.

So no, we’re not pretty good. Nobody actually believes that except a few people here that are desperate to hold on to our past. We need to embrace a new future or risk doing actual damage like what we saw on the football side.

 

[Nicknack]

A thread that starts out "we're still good" is very concerning. That's telling in terms of where our program is. This coming from an optimistic guy.

 

[FrancoPizza]

This.

We see how hard it is to get football fans back.

Can only live off that Final 4 in 2016 for so long. This has not been a stretch of good basketball, and nobody who actually follows CBB, thinks we’re still a “pretty good program”.

You know, I know, that any objective CBB analyst is going to put a qualifier in when discussing Syracuse Basketball until JB retires. That qualifier is not our premier practice facilities, large fanbase, Carrier Dome or East Coast P5, as those things are keeping us afloat...that qualifier is can JB still do it at this level, with his stubborn committment to the Zone.

We used to have CBB analysts describe our zone in admiration. This was when we still got top recruits to play it and 3 point shooting wasn’t the end all/be all of basketball.

That has changed recently... And our coach refuses to adapt.

So no, we’re not pretty good. Nobody actually believes that except a few people here that are desperate to hold on to our past. We need to embrace a new future or risk doing actual damage like what we saw on the football side.

This. This. This.

While I think our basketball resources and background state should prevent a total collapse like we saw with football, anything is possible if enough bad business decisions start compounding. Right now we're at a crossroads similar to where football was at with P&D just before the Champs Sports Bowl against GTech. The next hire is absolutely critical -- I just fear we may step through another NIT, a 10 seed, or a losing season on JB's way out before we get to that point.

Wildhack needs to be in succession planning mode NOW... putting out feelers... why you ask? Because no recruit worth his salt is going to come here if it's not clear who is going to be coaching the team. It's not good enough to say JB will step down in 2022 or 2023. That recruit has to know who is taking over... and it has to be someone appealing. We had a very unique succession plan in place but that ship sailed. No top coach is going to stay at his school with a secret agreement in place to take over in 3 years. That's why it's honestly better that JB just decides in the next year or two to hang it up after the season is over. Out of the blue. No advance notice. Yeah we might lose a recruit or two, but the right hire would be able to keep some in the fold (if they're good enough fit for his system) and bring his own players like Hop did.

Those of you thinking we're due for one last JB renaissance are smoking that new recreational mj.

 

[Millhouse]

It's right in the description of the stat: it's not good for describing how well a team did in the past, but what it could do against an average team.

Sure, but tenure and having job security goes a long way in keeping a stable program - which is all you're really showing - which P5 schools have the most stable programs.

Ok. Will just use your eye test

 

[Bayside44]

Do you think FSU was unfair to Bobby Bowden?

Bowden was lost during those games, outside their age not the same thing. His in game interviews were painful.

 

[Millhouse]

This.

We see how hard it is to get football fans back.

Can only live off that Final 4 in 2016 for so long. This has not been a stretch of good basketball, and nobody who actually follows CBB, thinks we’re still a “pretty good program”.

You know, I know, that any objective CBB analyst is going to put a qualifier in when discussing Syracuse Basketball until JB retires. That qualifier is not our premier practice facilities, large fanbase, Carrier Dome or East Coast P5, as those things are keeping us afloat...that qualifier is can JB still do it at this level, with his stubborn committment to the Zone.

We used to have CBB analysts describe our zone in admiration. This was when we still got top recruits to play it and 3 point shooting wasn’t the end all/be all of basketball.

That has changed recently... And our coach refuses to adapt.

Now we have it openly mocked (rightfully so), at a time when recruits, everyone is watching.

So no, we’re not pretty good. Nobody actually believes that except a few people here that are desperate to hold on to our past. We need to embrace a new future or risk doing actual damage like what we saw on the football side.

I don't know why he's taking about losing seasons when I am taking about factual measures that have actually happened. I don't care about barkley

 

[Consigliere]

But we’re not even good milly. I’d say good is top 25/4-6 seed. We’re somewhere between mediocre and irrelevant.

That’s just absurd. If a 20 win season with 10 wins in the toughest conference in the country, an NCAA berth in the top half of the bracket and a win at Cameron constitutes a disappointment and mediocrity I would say our standards are pretty high. By your standards how many “good” teams out of the 358 Division I schools are there? We certainly underachieved this year and we haven’t had that transcendent talent that is getting harder and harder to attract in the one and done age but we are undeniably a very good program and one that almost every other fan base in the NCAA would kill to have.

 

[Millhouse]

speaking of barkley and the zone - they spent half time talking about rebounding out of the zone. we had more offensive rebounds than them

 

[tbonezone]

we're like the clampetts minus the cash .

still nice folks but going nowhere.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We used to have CBB analysts describe our zone in admiration. This was when we still got top recruits to play it and 3 point shooting wasn’t the end all/be all of basketball.

That drubbing of Indiana and Crean in the S16 is one of my favorite recent tournament memories and is, IMO, the near perfect zone game - what Boeheim sees the zone being for any particular game. I've posted this before, but I think that sometimes Boeheim is too smart and stubborn for his own good. A good-to-great defense is beneficial to winning, but if what you have to sacrifice for it to be so, makes it harder to attract talent and win more games, then what's the point? Zone for zone sake?

Ok. Will just use your eye test

Did I write that? Don't use a pliars for a wrench or a wrench for a hammer. Stats are great, but they have limitations especially when the one you're using is the wrong tool for the job and doesn't line up with other observations or measures.

 

[djcon57]

Bowden was lost during those games, outside their age not the same thing. His in game interviews were painful.

“They made shots, we didn’t make shots” isn’t making me feel fuzzy inside.

speaking of barkley and the zone - they spent half time talking about rebounding out of the zone. we had more offensive rebounds than them

They shot 54 Percent..what did you want them to rebound.

We shot 41 and we had 2 more. Whoop de damn doo

 

[Consigliere]

We recruited like a big boy selector school those years. It’s all about talent and our stale brand makes it impossible to get the talent.

Fact of the matter is that as the one and done culture has proliferated the number of “big boy” selector schools has diminished. Duke and Kentucky now have room for 5 or 6 5-stars every year instead on one or two,

 

[tbonezone]

the zone is now stitched to the collar of his legacy and he'll never let go or admit it's flaws.

 

[Millhouse]

This. This. This.

While I think our basketball resources and background state should prevent a total collapse like we saw with football, anything is possible if enough bad business decisions start compounding. Right now we're at a crossroads similar to where football was at with P&D just before the Champs Sports Bowl against GTech. The next hire is absolutely critical -- I just fear we may step through another NIT, a 10 seed, or a losing season on JB's way out before we get to that point.

Wildhack needs to be in succession planning mode NOW... putting out feelers... why you ask? Because no recruit worth his salt is going to come here if it's not clear who is going to be coaching the team. It's not good enough to say JB will step down in 2022 or 2023. That recruit has to know who is taking over... and it has to be someone appealing. We had a very unique succession plan in place but that ship sailed. No top coach is going to stay at his school with a secret agreement in place to take over in 3 years. That's why it's honestly better that JB just decides in the next year or two to hang it up after the season is over. Out of the blue. No advance notice. Yeah we might lose a recruit or two, but the right hire would be able to keep some in the fold (if they're good enough fit for his system) and bring his own players like Hop did.

Those of you thinking we're due for one last JB renaissance are smoking that new recreational mj.

it's not good enough that we have a hall of fame coach for 50 years and that he's doing better than a lot of old hall of famers near the end, we need to have someone ready to come in and be better while waiting his turn... OOOOOOOkay

we are so special, we are entitled to always be great and not have to worry about recruiting with an old hall of fame coach

and it's so bad that people like me using insane criteria like margin of victory (what the hell is that?!?), consistency (shmonshmistency!) and success in the tournament (tournament, what tournament?) are clearly just cherry picking out of nostalgia for the past

 

[cuse10]

Just how bad does it have to get milly? NITs? Losing seasons? By that point, we'd lose thousands of die-hard STHs and you may never get them back. If anything I'd say it would be harder to win them back when its -20 and 10 inches of snow outside.

Losing thousands of STH? Who are you kidding with this statement? They'd have to fall to where UConn currently is for that to begin to happen. Syracuse Basketball is the only game in Central New York which is why the leash is as long as it is here. When the program begins missing the tournament outright for multiple seasons in a row that's when the bleeding has to be stopped. The football program suffered because Robinson's teams were never competitive. Give the fans a bowl game or two and they'll deal with mediocrity. It was a terrible year for the basketball team and they underachieved, but they aren't close to what you're suggesting may happen.

 

[tbonezone]

hall of fame career yes. submit just his resume for the ACC and they'd tear it up. past glory.

 

[Millhouse]

A thread that starts out "we're still good" is very concerning. That's telling in terms of where our program is. This coming from an optimistic guy.

why are you pretending to quote me? it's right there in the title that everyone can see "very good"

 

[Bayside44]

“They made shots, we didn’t make shots” isn’t making me feel fuzzy inside.



They shot 54 Percent..what did you want them to rebound.

We shot 41 and we had 2 more. Whoop de damn doo

When JB does this then yeah:

 

[Bayside44]

speaking of barkley and the zone - they spent half time talking about rebounding out of the zone. we had more offensive rebounds than them

Funny after the game I checked the boxscore assuming we got smoked on that stat, but I think the ball hit the ground more than once on their offensive rebounds.

Team needs different leadership with players.

 

[baggerbob]

This. This. This.

While I think our basketball resources and background state should prevent a total collapse like we saw with football, anything is possible if enough bad business decisions start compounding. Right now we're at a crossroads similar to where football was at with P&D just before the Champs Sports Bowl against GTech. The next hire is absolutely critical -- I just fear we may step through another NIT, a 10 seed, or a losing season on JB's way out before we get to that point.

Wildhack needs to be in succession planning mode NOW... putting out feelers... why you ask? Because no recruit worth his salt is going to come here if it's not clear who is going to be coaching the team. It's not good enough to say JB will step down in 2022 or 2023. That recruit has to know who is taking over... and it has to be someone appealing. We had a very unique succession plan in place but that ship sailed. No top coach is going to stay at his school with a secret agreement in place to take over in 3 years. That's why it's honestly better that JB just decides in the next year or two to hang it up after the season is over. Out of the blue. No advance notice. Yeah we might lose a recruit or two, but the right hire would be able to keep some in the fold (if they're good enough fit for his system) and bring his own players like Hop did.

Those of you thinking we're due for one last JB renaissance are smoking that new recreational mj.

The biggest problem is JB is still here, and should have been gone. The Administration should have stuck with the original plan. JB is to stubborn to retire gracefully, and they won't fire him. We are stuck with another situation like Paul and George where the game has passed us by.