West Virginia is showing how fast it takes to turn around

[cuseguy]

Well, according to people like you, it’s already too late...so what’s your point?

Well, we shouldn’t expect any greatness before JB walks away. Maybe another tourney appearance. So the new hire and the transition will be important. But don’t just assume the program will step back into the limelight.

But that’s okay, right? Because we should accept years of mediocrity and should never have high standards. Isn’t that right?

 

[Gotothehole]

He doesn't need the money, and he certainly doesn't need to prove what a great career he has had at Syracuse. Watching the same thing, year in and year somehow thinking the results will be different. Time for change

 

[chugg21]

For the 1st time in my life as a fan, Orange basketball games aren't a priority and I don't even get mad at losses anymore. Call it spoiled or whatever but the program has became irrelevant nationally and by the looks of the dome interest appears significantly diminished locally too. Sure things can change quickly but based on what we have and whats coming, it wouldn't seem likely that things are turning around while Buddy is still around.

 

[Scooch]

I’m not speaking on behalf of the fan base, I’m questioning it.

So you’re questioning hundreds of thousands of people? I hope you’re prepared to take notes.

 

[Day2]

So you’re questioning hundreds of thousands of people? I hope you’re prepared to take notes.

You’ve had multiple opportunities to answer the question yourself.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You’ve had multiple opportunities to answer the question yourself.

Why are you such a Scott? Are you just trolling or are you really this dense?

 

[Alsacs]

Why are you such a Scott? Are you just trolling or are you really this dense?

IMO he is trolling me. I like Day2 but he is like his avatar Deadpool he just doesn’t give a bleep so he will do that.

My original point shows that can turn things around quickly. I am not even upset with this year’s team as we all knew it was coming. I am frustrated that if people are objective they know things aren’t going to get better for atleast 2 years 2021-2022.

West Virginia has a coach who isn’t young. Again after he won a NCAA tournament game 2 years ago Higgins went to watch a recruit. Do people believe Jim Boeheim would do that?
Our coach isn’t young. If people are okay with just being a scrappy mid tier conference team okay fine. Because our roster isn’t going to challenge for the top of this conference until it’s a complete roster.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Maybe someone can explain to me why the fan base is entitled to a coaching change on their terms, but the coach isn’t entitled to finish his career on his own terms.

Because the program is larger than the coach and will be here after he's long gone. How quickly success can be achieved or how quickly they can re-establish the program as a dominant team in the ACC is dependent on how the transition is handled. Fans are entitled to their terms, in a sense, because they're the customers and they get a vote based on their willingness to buy a ticket. And if you don't think that this is the case, you can refer to any number of hundreds or thousands of businesses that replace the CEO, founder, or whomever is in charge when the sales drop.

Additionally, last I checked, JAB was given his opportunity to finish on his own terms - twice (ETA: once after being hit with sanctions for the second time in his career, which most coaches do not survive). The coach-in-waiting who had a signed contract is now coaching a ~top-25(ish) team on the west coast.

 

[jncuse]

JB can do more with less then anyone in the country on a consistent basis. The problem is he is getting less and less every year now.

Given what Tony Bennett has done with Virginia in the past 9 years, I would have to say your assertion is incorrect.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

When the ACC announced the addition of SU, we were looking at being the 3rd best program in the conference. Since then Louisville has gone flying by us. And UVA is right on our heels. They may pass us by the time JB retires. So we are now looking at being the 5th best program. Which means in a typical year we will have a 6th place finish in conference.

So I think a Top 6 finish and making the ACCT semi finals once every four years is a realistic expectation. Overall I don’t expect SU to be 1980s SU again. I don’t expect to be 2009-2014 SU again. I do expect us to be similar to 90s SU which gave us a national championship game, 3 additional Sweat 16s, 2 second round exits, 2 first round exits, and an NIT. Maybe even reduce that to 1 FF, 1 Elite 8, 1 S16, 2 2nd, 3 1st, 2 NIT over a 10 year span. I think that is more than fair.

 

[Alsacs]

When the ACC announced the addition of SU, we were looking at being the 3rd best program in the conference. Since then Louisville has gone flying by us. And UVA is right on our heels. They may pass us by the time JB retires. So we are now looking at being the 5th best program. Which means in a typical year we will have a 6th place finish in conference.

So I think a Top 6 finish and making the ACCT semi finals once every four years is a realistic expectation. Overall I don’t expect SU to be 1980s SU again. I don’t expect to be 2009-2014 SU again. I do expect us to be similar to 90s SU which gave us a national championship game, 3 additional Sweat 16s, 2 second round exits, 2 first round exits, and an NIT. Maybe even reduce that to 1 FF, 1 Elite 8, 1 S16, 2 2nd, 3 1st, 2 NIT over a 10 year span. I think that is more than fair.

There is no reason we can’t be on par with Louisville.
Virginia needs to show they will sustain this when Bennett leaves.
They have potential but right now Bennett’s defense keeps them elite.

Basketball tiers should be

Duke/UNC- elite of the elite.

Syracuse/Louisville/UVA. NC winners and teams with deep tradition.

ND/NC State/Pitt/Florida State teams that seem to max out at the Elite 8 but are perennial NCAA teams.

Clemson/Virginia Tech/Miami teams with a good coach can be frisky.

Georgia Tech/Boston College/Wake Forest have been tomato cans and need consistency to move up a tier.

 

[Day2]

Why are you such a Scott? Are you just trolling or are you really this dense?

So now the people who defend the coach or the program are trolls? Amazing.

 

[Day2]

IMO he is trolling me.

You’re taking this personally? I don’t think I’ve replied to you directly even once in this thread.

 

[Alsacs]

You’re taking this personally? I don’t think I’ve replied to you directly even once in this thread.

I am not taking it personally from you. I said IMO you were good natured trolling me. I know you aren’t mean. Deadpool is hilarious at trolling.

Other posters in this thread don’t do it this way. If it wasn’t I am wrong which I am plenty. I got no issue with it as long as the person counters the point being debated which you were.

 

[sufandu]

I hope you're only speaking for yourself, because the huge of majority of SU hoops fans would not be fine. And, as it's been about 50 years since the Orange had a down year (sub-500), who can blame them?

Is a losing record the only definition of a down year? I don't think so. It has to be in relation to past performance. For a long time a down year was a 5 seed or lower. I think we have devolved to the point that it's only a down year if we miss the tournament. That's a big change.

 

[HOFCeluck]

JB can finish on his terms absolutely, he's a HOFer!

At the same time, I can no longer make SU basketball games appointment viewing, or simply not watch at all, or maybe just intermittenly check ESPNs gamecast when I'm bored with scrolling through Baby Yoda memes.

 

[malpearl31]

Dude..It can get a lot worse than this

“It can’t get any worse than this” wins for best comment in this thread.

Coming in a close 2nd is “Why didn’t we recruit Miles McBride?”

 

[Fly Rodder]

... when I'm bored with scrolling through Baby Yoda memes.

I don't see how this is possible.

 

[Sherman20]

Please help me see the correlation between "loving to be ranked," "relishing it," and "missing it" to "Boeheim only has one title," to your "so you couldn't have loved it that much" remark. Is it possible that one can love being ranked, relishing it and missing it, yet still be disappointed, etc. that JB only has been able to win one title? Asking for a friend.

Because he was complaining all the time even when we were elite. What you’re saying is disingenuous.

 

[Cusefan0307]

fabrication. i loved being ranked. relished it. miss it.

We can dig up posts to 2011. You complained then too. In fact I don't think I've ever seen you happy with the team ever.

 

[tbonezone]

he's had 44 years of near complete control of this program to institute any changes ,improvements direction he desires. the program is clearly no longer waxing under his direction . it's waning. (i.e. never top 20 anymore).
any fool can see that. he's the oldest coach in D1 history. he's the only coach who's teams apparently can't play any man2man. or more likely he can no longer coach it. or perhaps he just doesn't like it. he certainly helped build this program and deserves all the kudos he's received . he also has a hand in bringing about the sanctions and disgrace under his regime. that's the past. today i'm looking at today. we ain't ranked again. haven't been for a long while. yes your program is waning and not waxing mr miyagi . and that's all on him. time for change.

 

[Eric15]

Whether its a sports team, or a business, or political office, or basically any type of institution... the idea that a leader who isn't producing results (even if they were great historically) should be able to stick around as long as they want is just poison to an organization in every possible way.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

JB can still X’s and O’s with the best of them. His problem is he can’t bring in the recruits to compete at a high level anymore.

We only have 4 good players and the only really good player with plus size/athleticism is the ECU transfer.

JB was too arrogant to give his kids scholarship to someone who could help. Even though he knew Buddy was gonna play 40 mins per night he didn’t want fans thinking of him as a walk on or something.

This can turn around quickly if we send some of the misses packing and add a bunch of transfers.

 

[Sherman20]

There is no reason we can’t be on par with Louisville.
Virginia needs to show they will sustain this when Bennett leaves.
They have potential but right now Bennett’s defense keeps them elite.

Basketball tiers should be

Duke/UNC- elite of the elite.

Syracuse/Louisville/UVA. NC winners and teams with deep tradition.

ND/NC State/Pitt/Florida State teams that seem to max out at the Elite 8 but are perennial NCAA teams.

Clemson/Virginia Tech/Miami teams with a good coach can be frisky.

Georgia Tech/Boston College/Wake Forest have been tomato cans and need consistency to move up a tier.

agree on all this. One quibble: Virginia doesn’t have anywhere near the basketball tradition of Syracuse and Louisville. They were mostly mediocre (save for an occasional good season) for nearly 30 years from the Sampson era until Bennett came around. Also, as good as Bennett had been at Washington State and his first 6-8 years at Virginia, he never made a Final Four until 2019.

 

[Scooch]

You’ve had multiple opportunities to answer the question yourself.

What question? That fans don’t get to be upset that the program hasn’t been top 25, title contending caliber in several years? Your question is profoundly silly.