What do you think are the 3 things that most negatively affected SU football in the last 25 years

[elimunelson]

Wrong about Jake.

He knew in 2003 that we needed the ACC money.

And he knew that Pasqualoni wasn’t the problem.

Gross wasn’t the problem - he saw immediately that we had an infrastructure issue and he took action.

Marrone leaving still bothers me.

the anti jake sentiment is hilarious to me. Guy built the Syracuse sports machine during one era. To ask him to be a builder of 3-4 new eras of athletic directing at syraxuse is illogical. The school should
have leaned into adding youth to
The department and demanded a longer transition.

 

[Newhouser]

the anti jake sentiment is hilarious to me. Guy built the Syracuse sports machine during one era. To ask him to be a builder of 3-4 new eras of athletic directing at syraxuse is illogical. The school should
have leaned into adding youth to
The department and demanded a longer transition.

Just like their planning for JBs departure? Saying Jake stayed too long isn't saying Jake stunk, but if you think the tail end of his career the Department was showing the agility and vision that was needed in the modernizing sports world, we will agree to disagree.

 

[tipphill]

Wrong about Jake.

He knew in 2003 that we needed the ACC money.

And he knew that Pasqualoni wasn’t the problem.

Gross wasn’t the problem - he saw immediately that we had an infrastructure issue and he took action.

Marrone leaving still bothers me.

marrone still bothers me as well. you may have info on jake that i am not aware of. however, i feel that when we were high profile and fairly successful, he did not invest in the program. marrone may have left anyway, but i think daryl lied to him about the reality of an ipf and he saw it. we are never proactive about anything , and always react after the horse is out of the barn. jake as the ad, was the "leader" and i felt very passive, chose to remain status quo and fiddle as rome burned.
pasqualoni, was not the problem. other schools were making strides in facilities and investing in the their programs. he could not recruit as well --- we were stale. he was not imo a great coach, but he was good. he had some great talent for awhile.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

marrone still bothers me as well. you may have info on jake that i am not aware of. however, i feel that when we were high profile and fairly successful, he did not invest in the program. marrone may have left anyway, but i think daryl lied to him about the reality of an ipf and he saw it. we are never proactive about anything , and always react after the horse is out of the barn. jake as the ad, was the "leader" and i felt very passive, chose to remain status quo and fiddle as rome burned.
pasqualoni, was not the problem. other schools were making strides in facilities and investing in the their programs. he could not recruit as well --- we were stale. he was not imo a great coach, but he was good. he had some great talent for awhile.

Jake had a laundry list of facilities improvements that he wanted to make, but didn't have the money in the budget, and Buzz wouldn't open up the checkbook for him. Jake's hands were tied.

It was university policy back then that any money SU generated from bowl games and NCAA Tournaments went into the General Fund, instead of staying with the Athletic Dept. We had a great bowl run from 1987-98, but none of that money was reinvested into the AD. Once again, not Jake's call.

 

[tipphill]

Jake had a laundry list of facilities improvements that he wanted to make, but didn't have the money in the budget, and Buzz wouldn't open up the checkbook for him. Jake's hands were tied.

It was university policy back then that any money SU generated from bowl games and NCAA Tournaments went into the General Fund, instead of staying with the Athletic Dept. We had a great bowl run from 1987-98, but none of that money was reinvested into the AD. Once again, not Jake's call.

good to know. why is there still a mindset of reactive rather than proactive?
that historically is sop with us, including the dome. if the fire dept didn't declare archbold to be unsafe, we would not have the dome---that philosophy ruined ben, and pasqualoni as well. although there may have been other reasons, i believe that we lost marrone for the same reason. daryl bs'ed him on the ipf

 

[Scooch]

All the best answers are in the thread, just not grouped in the way I think were most impactful.

1) Vick. I truly believe we make a top 5/national title run with him in 2000 if he came to SU. Our defenses from 199-2001 were loaded. Vick would have made the O lethal. Despite the other institutional issues, we would have been teed up for a much better 2000s if Vick played at SU.

2) Shaw’s financial neglect. Sucking money out of the athletic department and pumping into our university operations was shameful. At a time when all of our regional rivals were gearing up for the arms race, SU fiddled while it’s facilities burned. Total malfeasance by the administration.

3) Rutgers loss 2003 and Temple loss, 2004. We don’t have a GumpRob era if P wins these two lay ups. The 2004 one is particularly awful, since we’d have gotten a BCS payday. P may have been jettisoned after 2005 or 2006, and Gross may still have made a bad hire, but literally no one could’ve been worse than Robinson, and I think he’s off the table if another year or two passes.

 

[the villager]

I was at the 2003 Rutgers game. I have Always wondered if Brian Leonard grew up as a Rutgers fan. Maybe someone on the board could remember.

 

[cuseguy]

Coach P was the ultimate enigma of this program IMO. On one hand, he put in more hours than any HC in the country, had excellent special teams year over year, a defense that I’ve grown to miss (thanks to several of his successors) and despite average recruiting always managed to have a couple of difference makers and players who would go on to great pro careers. He also had the wherewithal to recognize the advantage that a multi-dimensional athlete at the QB position could offer.

On the other hand, had a weird infatuation with DeLeone (didn’t he move him from OC to DC one offseason?), every game he coached had at least one boneheaded call or penalty and probably worst of all, he squandered talent, in a program that struggled to find it, even through the McNabb years where he averaged 3-4 losses a year in an inferior Big East.

Coach P had average recruiting, you say, but squandered talent? That doesn’t add up.

 

[Nick44]

To me the mismanagement of 2005 was criminal. P and D deserved that season no matter how bad the bowl turned out. The rush to fire a guy who moonwalked into 2 fiestas a gator and an orange in the 90s deserved that final season. The recruiting has never been as good as it was for that period even with flinstone facilities. We still were Syracuse and still a force in the north east. It wasn’t lost on people how callous the transition was handled w p.

This is well said. During that time we also had an arrogant, overconfident AD who did not have the decision-making ability to correct the program. He also should never have accepted the position that did not provide him with the adequate time or resources to appropriately evaluate the program.

Coach P was hastily fired late into the cycle that year. No plan was in place to replace. The rest is history. What if instead, TGD provided what resources they did have at the time to fix the offense? Chip Kelly was still an unknown OC up the road at New Hampshire during that time. I bet he would’ve jumped at an opportunity to be the OC at Syracuse back then. It wouldn’t have fixed the recruiting issues but would have been a cheaper solution that would’ve helped.

 

[TheCusian]

the anti jake sentiment is hilarious to me. Guy built the Syracuse sports machine during one era. To ask him to be a builder of 3-4 new eras of athletic directing at syraxuse is illogical. The school should
have leaned into adding youth to
The department and demanded a longer transition.

meh. Same as P.

Very good for a specific set of time, started to decline. Happens to us all lol

 

[Nick44]

Coach P had average recruiting, you say, but squandered talent? That doesn’t add up.

It clearly adds up when you realize the talent he had during the first half of his tenure declined significantly during the second half of his tenure. Even when he did have that talent, the results were mediocre. See the dozens of of players that made NFL teams from the 97 and 98 teams.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I was at the 2003 Rutgers game. I have Always wondered if Brian Leonard grew up as a Rutgers fan. Maybe someone on the board could remember.

Brian had an older brother named Nate who played LB. Syracuse and a few other schools were involved with him until he blew out his knee in HS, and we lost interest.

Nate ended up at Rutgers. Brian picked Rutgers because they were the only school that would take Nate.

 

[WoadBlue]

The Big East failing as a football conference was a huge blow. And the fact is that BE football was failing from its start up. The only reason the BE agreed to start football was because Syracuse, BC, and Pitt all told the league that if it did not start football that would be open to other options. Miami only joined the BE becaue the ACC refused to go to 10, and Miami was using back channels, and FSU, to get into the ACC no later than 1996. Everybody knew that if Miami left, every BE football member would leave.

Gene Corrigan revealed a few years ago that when the ACC decided to add FSU, that Syracuse was discussed, including to go to 10 members. If Syracuse had entered the ACC then with FSU, Syracuse football may not have had any significant slide later.

 

[WoadBlue]

NY has had a deep slide in production of D1 football talent. NY was never OH or PA (which also has bottomed out), but there used to be a number of high quality NY recruits every year.

What has happened to NY HS football?

 

[WoadBlue]

1) The resurgence of Rutgers
2} UConn becoming a Division 1 player
3} The Dome and other facilities aging out

All 3 of those did hurt Syracuse football.

 

[the villager]

Brian had an older brother named Nate who played LB. Syracuse and a few other schools were involved with him until he blew out his knee in HS, and we lost interest.

Nate ended up at Rutgers. Brian picked Rutgers because they were the only school that would take Nate.

Thanks

 

[IthacaMatt]

George was a very good play caller for years. The AD wanted to make him a scapegoat. P agreed but retained him on the D side.

Those hundreds of delay of game calls on our offense would disagree with you.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Wrong about Jake.

He knew in 2003 that we needed the ACC money.

And he knew that Pasqualoni wasn’t the problem.

Gross wasn’t the problem - he saw immediately that we had an infrastructure issue and he took action.

Marrone leaving still bothers me.

Jake's sin was his parting shots, calling this a "one horse town" and telling the fans to get a life. That destroyed any goodwill there might have been for Robinson, who was a charming man, he even recruited a handful of good players, but he could not run a program to save his life. Fans still aren't all the way "back" in terms of attendance from those insults on his way out the door.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Jake's sin was his parting shots, calling this a "one horse town" and telling the fans to get a life. That destroyed any goodwill there might have been for Robinson, who was a charming man, he even recruited a handful of good players, but he could not run a program to save his life. Fans still aren't all the way "back" in terms of attendance from those insults on his way out the door.

"Get a life" was Buzz. After the Rutgers loss in 1999.

 

[IthacaMatt]

"Get a life" was Buzz. After the Rutgers loss in 1999.

You're right, both of those comments were Buzz Shaw. My mistake.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Who is Jake?

 

[kcsu]

You're right, both of those comments were Buzz Shaw. My mistake.

Buzz was a complete failure.

 

[jgeorge322]

1. Vick
2. Greg
3. Marrone leaving

 

[elimunelson]

Just like their planning for JBs departure? Saying Jake stayed too long isn't saying Jake stunk, but if you think the tail end of his career the Department was showing the agility and vision that was needed in the modernizing sports world, we will agree to disagree.

Modernizing is a sexy way of saying "they needed funds". The job of AD morphed in the past 10 plus years of becoming a fundraiser first and foremost. Jake was the HC of Dartmouth football. He wasn't built to fund raise and the school did no favors of funding his athletic dept. Jake wasn't stupid. He knew the world was moving under his feet and decided to step aside. I just wish he could have remained as an advisor. Guy helped build the big east and put Syracuse in position for conference realignment (which we know he wasn't 100% for but understood the $$ implications)

He was a visionary of what Syracuse became. They should build a statue for the sports machine he built in the middle of nowhere. Throughout the 80s/90s/early 2000s the school (private school that is) had the best two way operation in football and basketball. They had the absolute best lax program and they had continuity. The continuity is the secret sauce for sustained results.

The end snuck up on us because the school hired a carnival barker who could lean on people to open their wallets at the mercy of the continuity built.

 

[orange79]

Who is Jake?

Jake Crouthamel, former SU AD 1978-2005