What has Benny done to deserve...

[dollarbill44]

Jimmy is consistently flailing around on defense a dozen times per game because he doesn't have the foot-speed to make it work.

At this point there's nothing more to be done than give Benny his 5-10 mins and play him more if he does well. Clearly he's a broken kid.

We're also debating this as if Benny is only allowed to take Jimmy's minutes. Give him some of Cole's too.
I would bet both of those guys would be a little better at the end of games if they weren't gassed.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

I have said this on different occasions and maybe in this thread. If the roles were reversed this year and Benny was allowed to play through his Freshman mistakes there is no doubt he would outproduce Jimmy on both ends of the court outside of three-point shooting. But he wasn't so we will never find out if that was the case or not but it is a hill I am ready to die on.

Hope u have room for me

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Im outta here. Nice to see so many of us on the same page!

 

[Cusefan0307]

I have said this on different occasions and maybe in this thread. If the roles were reversed this year and Benny was allowed to play through his Freshman mistakes there is no doubt in my mind he would outproduce Jimmy on both ends of the court outside of three-point shooting. But he wasn't so we will never find out if that was the case or not but it is a hill I am ready to die on.

Defense and rebounding for sure, but I’ve seen nothing that suggests he can be second on the team in scoring.

I hyped Benny probably more than anyone before the season and I’m mostly disappointed where he’s at offensively. He can’t shoot from the outside and he really doesn’t get to the rim. He’s kind of lost at this point on that end of the court. I don’t disagree he should play at least 10-15 mpg and not with Frank/Symir in as well, but he’s really our 8th best guy right now.

 

[dollarbill44]

EXACTLY. Offense hasn’t been the problem. Much rather score 70 than 75 and give up 65 rather than 80.

Anyone would be foolish to not take that trade but, to be fair, those are made up numbers.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Defense and rebounding for sure, but I’ve seen nothing that suggests he can be second on the team in scoring.

I hyped Benny probably more than anyone before the season and I’m mostly disappointed where he’s at offensively. He can’t shoot from the outside and he really doesn’t get to the rim. He’s kind of lost at this point on that end of the court. I don’t disagree he should play at least 10-15 mpg and not with Frank/Symir in as well, but he’s really our 8th best guy right now.

I think this is fair, although I’m hopeful Benny will be able to drive the ball at some point when he gets accustomed to the physicality and fights through contact. But I see nothing in his shooting that leads me to believe he’ll be able to knock down threes like Jimmy

 

[rrlbees]

Much better defensively. Jimmy cannot cover, nor rebound with power 5 competition. Like previously mentioned, the other 4 can score. 11-11 with this great offense isn’t where we want to be

Jimmy’s rebounding metrics are better than Bennys.

 

[pearl31]

If Benny was allowed to play through his Freshman mistakes there is no doubt in my mind he would outproduce Jimmy on both ends of the court outside of three-point shooting

Possibly? yeah
Probably? maybe
But this coach has never ever operated like that -- and whether that MO is right or wrong is for another thread -- so it really just becomes a moot point.
All JB has ever been about, within a season, is to win the present/next game. That's it. With his forward options available, Jimmy/Swider simply are the best net-positive for to achieve that.

 

[rrlbees]

Shows that metrics aren’t the be all and end all. Sy is a better defender than Joe.

Not one single defensive metric says that.

 

[phil77]

Defense and rebounding for sure, but I’ve seen nothing that suggests he can be second on the team in scoring.

I hyped Benny probably more than anyone before the season and I’m mostly disappointed where he’s at offensively. He can’t shoot from the outside and he really doesn’t get to the rim. He’s kind of lost at this point on that end of the court. I don’t disagree he should play at least 10-15 mpg and not with Frank/Symir in as well, but he’s really our 8th best guy right now.

It is hard to say what his offensive game would look like now if he was playing 35 minutes a night every game. I feel he would have developed far more on the offensive side of the ball if he was allowed to play more. Again like I said that is just me saying that and there is no real way to know if that would have happened or not with minutes. Sure you can look at him now and say his offensive game is far behind but we both dont know what his offensive game would be right now if he was playing all those minutes from the beginning.

 

[benjams77]

Jimmy is really bad defensively and has struggles rebounding at times... but I am not seeing where Benny is so much better on defense and the analytics can say whatever.. For his length it seems that guys hit threes in his corner every time he's in the game.. He is very tenative on close outs.. He kind of skips to shooters , instead of running shooter off the arc...His rebounding is the same way, he doesn't pursue balls for his length and athleticism and doesn't rebound out of his area. I love the kid but, his whole game is a step behind right now and a lot of that is probably overthinking, but as a coach I want guys out there that fly around... Jimmy tries to do that ... He does anticipate, he's just slow footed.. There was one instance last night where Benny jogged down court as NC St was pushing the ball ... He wasn't loafing, just how he plays right now, very deliberate and a step behind. Unfortunately They both have weaknesses in their games and we don't have a guy to raise the level of that spot. All I know is that JB os going to going with guys he trusts and its been that way for years and years, not gonna change now.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It is hard to say what his offensive game would look like now if he was playing 35 minutes a night every game. I feel he would have developed far more on the offensive side of the ball if he was allowed to play more. Again like I said that is just me saying that and there is no real way to know if that would have happened or not with minutes. Sure you can look at him now and say his offensive game is far behind but we both dont know what his offensive game would be right now if he was playing all those minutes from the beginning.

Jimmy gets a bad rap because our pieces don’t mesh well. He would look a lot better as a 6th man or with another athletic forward instead of Cole.

They are too similar a player, but it’s pretty hard to nit pick with his 48% and 38% from 3. The free throw shooting certainly drives me nuts though and pretty much cost us the Virginia game and maybe one or 2 more, but he’s certainly been way better offensively than I ever expected. He’s the best guy we have at actually getting in the lane and it’s not really debatable. I just don’t see those skills in Bennys game yet even with the limited time. Too many midrange jumpers.

 

[TrickySU]

As expected after JB's comments last Thursday, Benny played more minutes against Wake Forest, and he looked as good as we've seen. That was a game I would say he showed why he can deserve minutes as opposed to just the potential of it. He was active on defense, in better spots, attacked the rim on defense, and positioned himself in better positions for rebounds. He still missed a couple rebounds because he was in bad spots. He actually could get a lot of easy baskets if he was in better positions on the offensive glass.

Last night still showed improvement but also showed more work to be done.

He set a great screen to set up Buddy for a three. Even motioned for Buddy to get in a good position for it. That was excellent. Shows he's understanding the offense better. That's from practice and film.

The tip on defense was good. Shows his athleticism of course.

Footwork is still a problem on defense, but he's getting better. Positioning same thing. Gave up an open three because he got caught too far inside. Still needs to attack the glass better too.

I would've like to see him kick the ball out to an open Girard instead of taking the turnaround fade away jump shot once Joe's man helped to stop the drive, but I like that he was in attack mode and more confident. I'd love for him to set up at the mid post, seal his guy, call for the ball, and then swing through to attack the rim. He can use that athleticism to his advantage.

Then ultimately what got him taken out of the game was a hesitant, weak cut to a bad position where he didn't hold off a smaller defender and let the ball get tipped away. Right idea to an extent, but bad execution. These are things he will get better at with time. I have no doubt the coaching staff is working with him on these things. I'm encouraged by comments from the coaches that he's starting to get it more in practice. You can see it in these last two games. But you can also see where he needs work. And that's what the coaches see every day in practice. If he keeps making the improvement there, we will see it in games. And he can be very fun to watch next season.

 

[orangefog]

Bottom line for me, I am not saying Benny should start. But, I think it would benefit the team and provide a more consistent level of play if Benny were part of a forward rotation. If he played an 8 minute stretch in each half, giving Cole and Jimmy each a 4 minute break, I think the result would be the increased development of Benny and a better rested and sharp Cole and Jimmy. By the end of the season, I would hope to see a more confident and productive Benny who may even be able to grab a few more minutes each game. Also, I think our stats would benefit, both offensively and defensively, because guys would be more rested and Benny will feel more comfortable. I feel similarly about the use of Symir.

 

[pearl31]

Defense and rebounding for sure, but I’ve seen nothing that suggests he can be second on the team in scoring.

I hyped Benny probably more than anyone before the season and I’m mostly disappointed where he’s at offensively. He can’t shoot from the outside and he really doesn’t get to the rim. He’s kind of lost at this point on that end of the court. I don’t disagree he should play at least 10-15 mpg and not with Frank/Symir in as well, but he’s really our 8th best guy right now.

Same.
One of the things I was pretty much counting on last fall in thinking this could/would be a good season was Benny being a contributor - if not right away, certainly by mid-season - and Jimmy being a role player.

 

[orangefog]

Same.
One of the things I was pretty much counting on last fall in thinking this could/would be a good season was Benny being a contributor - if not right away, certainly by mid-season - and Jimmy being a role player.

I was in the exact same place with both Benny and Jimmy. Jimmy is better than I thought he would be. Benny is not where I thought he would be, but I still believe he can get there.

 

[TrickySU]

I would love to seen how bad Jeese must have been in practice last year and how much his improvement in practice truly has been.

I bet Jesse was good in practice last year but why play him when one of Alan, Marek, Quincy, Buddy would have had to sit down.

Its like the HC predetermine minutes and there has to be major reasons to change.

I'm willing to bet he saw a big improvement in practice last year. We can agree that he should've played more sooner. But I wouldn't underestimate the improvement there.

 

[djcon57]

Then ultimately what got him taken out of the game was a hesitant, weak cut to a bad position where he didn't hold off a smaller defender and let the ball get tipped away.

I simply disagree with this as do many posters...as did the the officer scorer, btw.

Buddy needed to get the ball up to the taller player.

 

[TrickySU]

Much better defensively. Jimmy cannot cover, nor rebound with power 5 competition. Like previously mentioned, the other 4 can score. 11-11 with this great offense isn’t where we want to be

We're not MUCH better defensively with Benny over Jimmy. Jimmy's a much better rebounder. Benny is much more athletic. They both make mistakes. Jimmy because he's unathletic. Benny because he's in the wrong position. People act as if Benny playing more with improve our defense by 10 points a game. That's not gonna happen.

 

[orangefog]

I simply disagree with this as do many posters...as did the the officer scorer, btw.

Buddy needed to get the ball up to the taller player.

Agreed, it was a horrible decision by Buddy. From what I remember, he passed the ball down to Benny who had two defenders with as good a chance of getting their hands on the ball as him. That was 100% on Buddy.

 

[Newhouser]

Game set match.

No reason for the minutes to be so out of whack.
Jimmy could play 28 minutes and Benny 12 minutes. Our offense wouldn’t suffer since we have 3 shooters and Edwards.

Also I bet a bunch of Benny’s minutes are with multiple bench players at the same time since we hockey line sub.

The subbing in shifts is cray to me too. Was that done prior to this year or am I just noticing it?

 

[TrickySU]

I also noted that Benny's last play, before he got pulled, was when Buddy made a terrible pass to Benny, resulting in a turnover.

Weird how that works

Edit - and it happened on the far end of the court away from JB who was probably also shielded from seeing the entire play.

he’s usually shielded from the buddy turnovers

Watch the play back. It was a good idea to cut for Benny, but he was slow, took a bad angle, didn't seal the defender, and was weak going for the ball. Fixing any of those things leads to a catch and dunk.

 

[Newhouser]

I’ll nitpick here and probably wrong for doing so. Symir threw a pretty crappy pass to Jimmy down low in the 2nd half. Jimmy really half assed the effort to get it, resulting in a turnover and a Symir benching. Later on, Jimmy threw the same pass to Jesse, but he saved him.

The lob pass near the end? Well I think it was a lob - more like a shot put in Jesse's area with the hope that he would catch it? Yeah brutal pass.

 

[djcon57]

Agreed, it was a horrible decision by Buddy. From what I remember, he passed the ball down to Benny who had two defenders with as good a chance of getting their hands on the ball as him. That was 100% on Buddy.

The official scorer must have a FreeBenny agenda.

 

[orangefog]

Watch the play back. It was a good idea to cut for Benny, but he was slow, took a bad angle, didn't seal the defender, and was weak going for the ball. Fixing any of those things leads to a catch and dunk.

If he was slow, it was because nobody knows where to go when Buddy goes in to back down mode. It is the wild west out there when that happens. Do you clear out and let Buddy try to get to the basket? Do you cut? When Buddy gets the ball like that, he is in black hole mode for the most part. He passes out of it only when he has to. It's fine, because he does pretty well like that, but Benny didn't do anything wrong.