What I don’t get about Buddy | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

What I don’t get about Buddy

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No halfway objective reasonable thinking person actually believes that Boeheim had to be talked into the idea that Buddy was good enough to play at Syracuse, right? It is a cute story and a useful tool to ward off charges of nepotism for the naive. Buddy is a volume shooter who shoots under 40% overall and about a third of his 3's. He can't handle the ball, can't get to the rim, doesn't create for others and doesn't rebound despite being 6'6". He is painfully bad on defense. He has great shooting form, and in a limited role where he could be a catch and shoot 3 point shooters keeping defenses honest, he'd be a nice 7th man for a top 40ish team.

Instead he plays 35 minutes a night putting up volume stats and hasn't been recruited over because he is the coach's son. But sure, Syracuse couldn't pass up such a talent Good thing the assistants saw the diamond in the rough and convinced the head coach.


While I agree with much of this, I think that Buddy has shown that he can use his height advantage and back-down dribble to get into the lane and shoot over shorter guards. He does that several times every game. So I don't think it's accurate to say he can't handle or get to the rim.
 
The same stats JB used to tear down Kadary post BC game.

If we are going by defensive stats Kadary should be starting.
You are right ignore the stats.
Whatever makes you happy.
I don't think the cat is saying that Kadray shouldn't start. I think he is saying that Buddy is better than the board thinks he is. I know I have said that. On both counts. If people didn't know that the back court should be Buddy and Kadray after last night, I don't know what to tell you.
 
Alright, ignore the stats. Ignore what happens on the court and tell yourself it is all BS.

Whatever makes you happy.
You literally took running stats and use them as fact when all you need to do is look at them in context.
I don’t ignore what happens on the court, you may, you legitimately said that Joe should’ve gotten more minutes than in the ND game while saying Kadary didn’t play well. What were you watching?
 
Alright, ignore the stats. Ignore what happens on the court and tell yourself it is all BS.

Whatever makes you happy.
Stats are stats. He compiles based on his MPG. That's just what it is. If you watch the game, his weaknesses are blatantly evident and the more minutes he plays, the more it gets exposed. The athletic difference last night was so stark. Also, his inability to create off the dribble or get shots for other guys is there for anyone to see. Again, I am not trying to trash Buddy. I love the kid. He's only playing the role he is being asked to play. That's where my issue lies.
 
I agree with this. People can gripe about Buddy's recruiting ranking, but the reality of the situation is that he was one of the top players at Brewster Academy, and showed that he could contribute at the high major P5 level. There's nothing wrong with recruiting a player like Buddy Boeheim. IMO, he could play for just about any P5 program, no exaggeration.

The problem is how he's utilized HERE. To paraphrase another board member, it's like watching a little league coach insist on letting his son pitch, when he can't get anyone out.

On great teams, Buddy would be a reserve, cast in a complimentary role, and probably something like the third-scoring option -- who would burn teams for focusing defensive attention elsewhere. Here, he's miscast as the focal point of the offense.
If he went to Gonzaga which appeared to be the other main option, he's probably averaging 20mpg and knocking down 40% from 3 and we would all be freaking out and praying he grad transferred in.
 
I don't think the cat is saying that Kadray shouldn't start. I think he is saying that Buddy is better than the board thinks he is. I know I have said that. On both counts. If people didn't know that the back court should be Buddy and Kadray after last night, I don't know what to tell you.

It should be. Joe can be a spark plug when he's playing well. He's served a purpose in some games.
 
I don't think the cat is saying that Kadray shouldn't start. I think he is saying that Buddy is better than the board thinks he is. I know I have said that. On both counts. If people didn't know that the back court should be Buddy and Kadray after last night, I don't know what to tell you.
Bingo. And therein lies the rub. Kadary and Buddy are the two best guards on this roster. That's not debatable or the issue. The issue is the fact that Buddy is the second best guard on any roster. Buddy is a fine player. He's a 20 MPG guy that plays a role, but playing 35 MPG because he's the only option is the issue.
 
TBH our 2 guards have never been good rebounders. Don't believe me go look at Battle and Cooney's per 40 minute rebound stats. Girard is the best of a bad bunch.
Prior to 2015 we had pretty good rebounding from the guard position consistently.
 
Prior to 2015 we had pretty good rebounding from the guard position consistently.
I don't believe that is true but i go back a lot farther than you do. Sadly.
 
I don't think the cat is saying that Kadray shouldn't start. I think he is saying that Buddy is better than the board thinks he is. I know I have said that. On both counts. If people didn't know that the back court should be Buddy and Kadray after last night, I don't know what to tell you.
Until last night I don’t think he was saying Kadary should start. If he was then I didn’t see it.

Buddy is a starter. Buddy is a solid player. The problem is solid gets spun to justify the minutes he plays by some. Not you.

Buddy plays too much and shoots too much.
If this can’t get an overwhelming majority it causes these stupid food fights.

If the HC recruited better the temperature would be cooler.
If the HC gave any confidence he would adapt the temperature would be cooler.
He does neither while saying stuff he shouldn’t say to agitate even more in the fanbase.

The problems right now are on him.
His son deserves better and it’s his fault.
The kid isn’t going to say he should play less.

I acknowledge he is a good player. I wish we had him on the 2014 team.
 
If we had the talent around him for Buddy to play off of the ball and just be a sniper he would be an elite shooter. Probably as good as anyone in the country.

He's doing too much and I don't think that is his fault.
 
Stats are stats. He compiles based on his MPG. That's just what it is. If you watch the game, his weaknesses are blatantly evident and the more minutes he plays, the more it gets exposed. The athletic difference last night was so stark. Also, his inability to create off the dribble or get shots for other guys is there for anyone to see. Again, I am not trying to trash Buddy. I love the kid. He's only playing the role he is being asked to play. That's where my issue lies.
In last nights game, the difference between our guys and their guys, Buddy was down the list in guys that couldn't compete with the Duke players.
 
If he went to Gonzaga which appeared to be the other main option, he's probably averaging 20mpg and knocking down 40% from 3 and we would all be freaking out and praying he grad transferred in.

And that would be a perfect role for him.

I'm not making this comparison because they're both white, but rather because of the similarities in their games / athleticism. Buddy reminds me a ton of Luke Hancock from Louisville -- a guy who transferred there, I think from George Mason, for his final two years. Hancock was a solid bench weapon on a loaded team. A guy who could hit double figures any game -- was a terrific shooter, an adequate secondary ball handler, not the best athlete in the world. When Louisville made their championship run in 2013, Hancock got better and better as the season went on -- he really got dialed in, and became not just a complimentary guy. Pitino rode the hot hand, and he was arguably their top player in the NCAA tournament.

Now, I'm not suggesting that Buddy could match that blistering productivity that Hancock hit when he peaked during that extended stretch of being "in the zone." But I do think he could be a similar player -- a very good shooter who can get really hot, a complimentary shooter / scorer to space the floor, a guy who can burn the opposition for cheating to take away other things defensively, etc. Gonzaga is loaded this year, but there's no doubt that Buddy could be a contributor on that team.
 
I don't believe that is true but i go back a lot farther than you do. Sadly.
I’m really talking from 2008 and on. Anything before that is tough to bring into the discussion because the game has changed so much. But between then and 2015 there were never discussions on how bad the rebounding was, at least not to this extent.
 
In last nights game, the difference between our guys and their guys, Buddy was down the list in guys that couldn't compete with the Duke players.
That doesn't make Buddy any different than what he is as a player
 
Well Triche and Waiters were built like football players. Might be something with S&C.
And MCW, Ennis was solid, G obviously a F but was playing guard.
It’s also talent, all of these guys are pretty highly rated (Triche probably would’ve been higher if he wasn’t injured in HS). It’s talent pure and simple.
 
Until last night I don’t think he was saying Kadary should start. If he was then I didn’t see it.

Buddy is a starter. Buddy is a solid player. The problem is solid gets spun to justify the minutes he plays by some. Not you.

Buddy plays too much and shoots too much.
If this can’t get an overwhelming majority it causes these stupid food fights.

If the HC recruited better the temperature would be cooler.
If the HC gave any confidence he would adapt the temperature would be cooler.
He does neither while saying stuff he shouldn’t say to agitate even more in the fanbase.

The problems right now are on him.
His son deserves better and it’s his fault.
The kid isn’t going to say he should play less.

I acknowledge he is a good player. I wish we had him on the 2014 team.
Totally fair. We need a coaching change before it's too late. I think we are a ways off from it being too late. We still have a lot going for us. But if this drags on and our next coach is g-rob ish, we could have a fall that will take a lot of time to come back from.
 
You literally took running stats and use them as fact when all you need to do is look at them in context.
I don’t ignore what happens on the court, you may, you legitimately said that Joe should’ve gotten more minutes than in the ND game while saying Kadary didn’t play well. What were you watching?
First, I would appreciate it if you would stop lying. I did not say JG should have gotten more minutes against ND. I said he probably deserved more (he played okay), but we needed defense to win the game (and Kadary is by far our best defender).

Stats are facts. Even you should understand that. Again, when I provided the stats, I noted Buddy was 5th in the conference in minutes played, and that helps his numbers.

You can't be as stupid and awful as you are acting. I want to engage in an intelligent discussion. It is becoming evident you are not capable of this.

I think some of you are so crazed in your love for Kadary that anything said good about someone else makes you furious.

I have been advocating for Kadary to start from the start of the season. I expected JB to make the switch well before conference play started. I remain in favor of it. I would not play Buddy 35 minutes a game if I were the coach.

Like dash says, I am just saying Buddy is a good player who does more than he shoot 3s well. You can't have to attack every player on the team who might be a roadblock in playing time for Kadary.
 
And that would be a perfect role for him.

I'm not making this comparison because they're both white, but rather because of the similarities in their games / athleticism. Buddy reminds me a ton of Luke Hancock from Louisville -- a guy who transferred there, I think from George Mason, for his final two years. Hancock was a solid bench weapon on a loaded team. A guy who could hit double figures any game -- was a terrific shooter, an adequate secondary ball handler, not the best athlete in the world. When Louisville made their championship run in 2013, Hancock got better and better as the season went on -- he really got dialed in, and became not just a complimentary guy. Pitino rode the hot hand, and he was arguably their top player in the NCAA tournament.

Now, I'm not suggesting that Buddy could match that blistering productivity that Hancock hit when he peaked during that extended stretch of being "in the zone." But I do think he could be a similar player -- a very good shooter who can get really hot, a complimentary shooter / scorer to space the floor, a guy who can burn the opposition for cheating to take away other things defensively, etc. Gonzaga is loaded this year, but there's no doubt that Buddy could be a contributor on that team.
Excellent example. I think the consensus from most people is that Buddy is an ACC level player. Just should be a complimentary player and not leading the conference in FGA/Gm. No one blames him for it either. It's a rough situation. My main issue is that his pops usually has a quick trigger on guys that botch defensive rotations or lack effort or take dumb shots but seems not to ever apply to him no matter what.
 
I’m really talking from 2008 and on. Anything before that is tough to bring into the discussion because the game has changed so much. But between then and 2015 there were never discussions on how bad the rebounding was, at least not to this extent.

If you look at KenPom, ironically our worst year ever rebounding was 2012. The thing we did really well in 2012 though was protect the paint with Fab. Recently we can't do that. We used to give up 42% from 2. That is now near 50%. The rebounding has always been bad, but we have overcome it in other areas in the past.
 
I’m really talking from 2008 and on. Anything before that is tough to bring into the discussion because the game has changed so much. But between then and 2015 there were never discussions on how bad the rebounding was, at least not to this extent.
I think we hold Buddy to a standard that we don't hold many guys to. take Devo for instance. the worst defensive guard I have ever seen until Joe. Devo didn't really try on D. But he was a beloved figure so no one ever mentioned it. It was a reason we went to Memphis and won when Devo was out because of a suspension. And not for nothing, when Devo didn't come back, we had one of our best defensive teams. But again, no mention of that. Buddy is not a great athlete. He is slow. But he does know the defense and does make some steals.
 
Totally fair. We need a coaching change before it's too late. I think we are a ways off from it being too late. We still have a lot going for us. But if this drags on and our next coach is g-rob ish, we could have a fall that will take a lot of time to come back from.
JB will never get GRob ish his floor is probably a 15-16 season
He can go 9-2 in the nonconference if we play just 1 P6 in a holiday tournament and the Big Ten team. Just fill up the other games with tomato cans.
6-14 Is about the worst I can see in a ACC conference play season and I would expect more.

He is smart enough to schedule wins if he is worried.
 
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