What I expect at this point…

[Otto'd]

Outside hires fail all the time. There's no exact science to this.

And we assume ADJW didn't kick the tires on some outside guys.

Syracuse is notoriously private when it comes to making personnel moves.

The internal continuity guy after the guy usually isnt the guy.
Bill Guthridge
Kevin Ollie
Craig Esherik
Hubert Davis (that's a prediction, but he is about to become first coach ever to go from final 4 to preseason #1 to missing the tournament)
Scheyer - we will see. But Duke has the highest ranked talent in the country. They just barely squeaked into top 25 after being out of it most of the year.

All of the above were "continuity" hires.

 

[orange79]

Where is your evidence for the statement; outside hires fail all the time?

 

[Cuse181]

If you heard some of the names you'd be shocked.

I just don’t buy it, like I said, I find it very hard believe JB was turning guys away especially while the coaches were actively recruiting head cases like Dior

 

[Cusefan0307]

The internal continuity guy after the guy usually isnt the guy.
Bill Guthridge
Kevin Ollie
Craig Esherik
Hubert Davis (that's a prediction, but he is about to become first coach ever to go from final 4 to preseason #1 to missing the tournament)
Scheyer - we will see. But Duke has the highest ranked talent in the country. They just barely squeaked into top 25 after being out of it most of the year.

All of the above were "continuity" hires.

You might want to check Guthridge's record. You are thinking of Matt Doherty.

 

[Bayside44]

I just don’t buy it, like I said, I find it very hard believe JB was turning guys away especially while the coaches were actively recruiting head cases like Dior

You hear his comments on current players in his press conference Saturday? Shows you where JB's tolerance level is.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We are no longer a final destination school. In house guys will stay if they are successful. Stability is a selling point for recruiting.

JB created an Orange community. Let's keep it up. Duke and NC stick to their roots and so should we.

JB destroyed that the last 9 years. Can’t compare to Duke/UNC.

A HC will not leave SU if we are paying them. The only exception is if their alma mater comes calling. Like Roy going to UNC.

 

[Cuse181]

You hear his comments on current players in his press conference Saturday? Shows you where JB's tolerance level is.

I heard his comments, I also saw them recruit Zion Cruz and Dior Johnson just last year lol like come on, Red wasn’t bringing top 20 guys to the doorstep and then JB was turning them away. Maybe I’m wrong, and I hope I am, but I need SOME sort of top recruit to commit with red as his primary before I believe he is a super star being held back by JB.

 

[bothsocksup]

This is from my "main reason I'm an SU fan" post:

Grew up in Oswego, New York, and came of age during the "probation years." Vividly remember a game against G'Town that was on in the locker room at a CYO game I was participating in. During TOs, we'd run into the locker room to see if SU was holding off Mourning, Mutumbo, and all those other Georgetown thugs. It was the '90-'91 season when SU won in the dome 62-58. Billy Owens led us that day.

Who was my favorite from that team? Oddly it was Adrian Autry. Not sure why; I just liked his swagger. Loved when SU thrashed Kentucky in the dome in Autry's senior year and died a little when SU lost to Mizzou despite Autry putting the team on his shoulders during that tourney game.

He had such heart and was an amazing leader on the court in his junior and especially senior years. I wish I could find that Kentucky game on YouTube in 1994 because he abused Travis Ford. Thirty points and ten assists.

The dome erupted quite a few times that day.

Just watch about a minute of this footage from the Mizzou game. He didn't score before the half. Had 31 in the 2nd and overtime. That shot on his knees should have counted!

I’ll never forget this game. Incredible looking back at how well we rebounded. How effective and active the press was. How good moten was.

 

[Otto'd]

You might want to check Guthridge's record. You are thinking of Matt Doherty.

Guthridge had a good record, he didnt stay, that led to Doherty, so that stopgap was a net negative.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Guthridge had a good record, he didnt stay, that led to Doherty, so that stopgap was a net negative.

Doherty came from Notre Dame. At the time everyone thought he was a can't miss hire.

 

[Otto'd]

Doherty came from Notre Dame. At the time everyone thought he was a can't miss hire.

He missed.

 

[Cusefan69]

Folks no sense in howling at the moon about this. Agree or disagree with Red, he will seemingly be the new HC. Time to give the man a chance to coach and manage the roster. Everyone will be arm chair quarterbacking the departures, portal grabs, AAU season, etc to see how Red is navigating. At this point buckle up and enjoy the ride. Likely for the first time in what 45 years we will have a new coach and personality running the show. I give credit to JB for overall a great run and some awesome memories of SU greats and going to games with my dad and son. I look forward to new change and future greats and new memories to be made.

 

[RF2044]

Folks no sense in howling at the moon about this. Agree or disagree with Red, he will seemingly be the new HC. Time to give the man a chance to coach and manage the roster. Everyone will be arm chair quarterbacking the departures, portal grabs, AAU season, etc to see how Red is navigating. At this point buckle up and enjoy the ride. Likely for the first time in what 45 years we will have a new coach and personality running the show. I give credit to JB for overall a great run and some awesome memories of SU greats and going to games with my dad and son. I look forward to new change and future greats and new memories to be made.

Yup. Support him, and hopefully he comes through. And if he doesn't, then the AD must be prepared to "fail fast" and move on, before the program declines even further.

I do think that the intention will be to play a different style on both sides of the ball. Remains to be seen whether he can pull it off -- that was Hop's intention at UW, too.

 

[MSOrange]

Folks no sense in howling at the moon about this. Agree or disagree with Red, he will seemingly be the new HC. Time to give the man a chance to coach and manage the roster. Everyone will be arm chair quarterbacking the departures, portal grabs, AAU season, etc to see how Red is navigating. At this point buckle up and enjoy the ride. Likely for the first time in what 45 years we will have a new coach and personality running the show. I give credit to JB for overall a great run and some awesome memories of SU greats and going to games with my dad and son. I look forward to new change and future greats and new memories to be made.

There you go being reasonable again. You must be new here

 

[cuseinseattle]

Doherty came from Notre Dame. At the time everyone thought he was a can't miss hire.

The funny thing about Doherty is if Sean May doesn't go down they probably do ok that year and then the next year he gets to the final 4. It would be a different story. Who knows if all the players were even going to transfer or if they would if May had not gotten hurt and they hadn't lost all those games.

 

[Newhouser]

Outside hires fail all the time. There's no exact science to this.

And we assume ADJW didn't kick the tires on some outside guys.

Syracuse is notoriously private when it comes to making personnel moves.

I agree. Outside hire is no sure thing either. I like Red and think he has earned a shot. I also wonder about the depth of Wildhack's search. He seems content with alum hires and I'm sure AA is coming cheaper than an outside hire and I don't care how flush our vault is with cash, that seems to matter here.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Yup. Support him, and hopefully he comes through. And if he doesn't, then the AD must be prepared to "fail fast" and move on, before the program declines even further.

I do think that the intention will be to play a different style on both sides of the ball. Remains to be seen whether he can pull it off -- that was Hop's intention at UW, too.

If he doesn't succeed the next move is on the Chancellor and the Board IMO as I think we would have multiple positions to fill in the Athletic Department. Replacing a 40+ year coach is a career defining decision, and if you pick the easiest target you better be right.

 

[RF2044]

If he doesn't succeed the next move is on the Chancellor and the Board IMO as I think we would have multiple positions to fill in the Athletic Department. Replacing a 40+ year coach is a career defining decision, and if you pick the easiest target you better be right.

Agree 100%. And everybody here knows that I've consistently posted that our program is at a state where an external hire -- and an infusion of fresh ideas / energy -- is what's needed to right the ship.

But that said, I do think you need to peel back the onion here, factor in JB's recent media comments about being singularly in charge of deciding when he'll go, etc. and recognize that this "easiest" choice is probably the path of least resistance for the AD un-hijacking the program from being held hostage.

Which in and of itself is an important step.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Recruiting is less about salesmanship than it is about the product you are selling. Syracuse is a weak product in a traditional southern league.

 

[Sherman20]

The internal continuity guy after the guy usually isnt the guy.
Bill Guthridge
Kevin Ollie
Craig Esherik
Hubert Davis (that's a prediction, but he is about to become first coach ever to go from final 4 to preseason #1 to missing the tournament)
Scheyer - we will see. But Duke has the highest ranked talent in the country. They just barely squeaked into top 25 after being out of it most of the year.

All of the above were "continuity" hires.

guess you didn’t bother to look at my previous post on this. These hires can also succeed. Izzo, Painter and JB himself being prime examples. You just don’t know.

I’m hoping Red can be an Ed Cooley type long term, with strong ties to the school and the area.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Recruiting is less about salesmanship than it is about the product you are selling. Syracuse is a weak product in a traditional southern league.

Then why did Pittsburgh have zero issues getting players last year and winning 14 ACC games?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Recruiting is less about salesmanship than it is about the product you are selling. Syracuse is a weak product in a traditional southern league.

If nothing else you are damn consistent.

 

[Cuse181]

Recruiting is less about salesmanship than it is about the product you are selling. Syracuse is a weak product in a traditional southern league.

Not sure that makes any sense… why does it matter if the league is southern? Does conference geography dictate where players are allowed to play?

 

[Gotothehole]

Our schemes are tired.
We aren't winning any more.
Attendance is down.
Recruiting is as bad as its been a long while.

Yeah. Continuity is important.

If there is ever a time to look externally, it's now.

Alas...like a wide open passing offense in our climate controlled Dome, it's something else so obvious it will never happen in Syracuse.

You do realize Red is not JB right? He has his own mind and vision

 

[Otto'd]

guess you didn’t bother to look at my previous post on this. These hires can also succeed. Izzo, Painter and JB himself being prime examples. You just don’t know.

I’m hoping Red can be an Ed Cooley type long term, with strong ties to the school and the area.

I dont know the answer to this, Im genuinely asking this and I am curious.

Did Red get overtures or feelers from schools for HC positions? Im not talking p5 schools, most p5 assistants head coaching path takes them to mid major stops as proving ground. Or to not traditionally great P5 programs at best. (see Hopkins, Mike)

I ask because I don't remember hearing about it. But that could've been me, I checked out for a few years when raising young kids. I do remember Hop being in scuttle constantly.