What I'm hearing

[Bayside44]

Looking at Mike's five years at UW, two really good records, two pretty mediocre ones, and somehow a five win season which is almost impossible to do. I know 20-21 was a weird one but yeesh.

 

[dasher]

When Mike Hopkins took over UW, he said all of those same things, and our fanbase fell all over themselves making those same predictions. And then when push came to shove, he got exposed as a no trick pony who can't coach offense to save his life, and has resorted to playing zone 100% of the time because that's all he knows. He's still a great recruiter, but it is offset by being a subpar coach, and his performance over the last three years has left him on shaky ground at UW.

So when I see completely unsubstantiated predictions that Red, GMac, or anybody else is going to do things differently than what they've learned under JB, it rings hollow. When I read predictions about how recruiting is going to take off under Red / GMac instead of with a HOF head coach acting as the closer, when both have track records of being mediocre recruiters at best, it fails to inspire confidence.

And those guys aren't 1/10th the coaches that Hopkins was.

Let me just say that Hop did have the advantage of recruiting for JB when JB was a younger man. I think it has to be a hard sale to sell a 77 year old guy as your Head Coach.

 

[RF2044]

Yeah not piling on because I like Consigliere but we are nowhere close to very good.

Agreed -- love Consigliere.

 

[RF2044]

Looking at Mike's five years at UW, two really good records, two pretty mediocre ones, and somehow a five win season which is almost impossible to do. I know 20-21 was a weird one but yeesh.

Yeah, pretty ugly.

Especially when you consider that the 2 good seasons were the first 2, with a dropoff from there.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Totally ignores the fact that the NCAA has adopted lots of rules to level the playing field over that time and we’ve stepped up the competitive level of our schedule, both out of conference and in conference from the beginning of JBs tenure to today. At the beginning we were a heavy weight fighting little kids most nights now we’re a heavy weight fighting other same class fighters most nights.

20 game conference schedules now too. I won’t deny that we haven’t been as good as we generally were in the BE years but there are many factors involved that make the “double digit losses” argument more of a platitude.

 

[Consigliere]

Agreed -- love Consigliere.

That’s the trouble with trying to debate things in a forum like this. We are likely 90%+ in agreement here but passing messages back and forth we focus on defending the other 10%.

Peace.

 

[pfister1]

That’s the trouble with trying to debate things in a forum like this. We are likely 90%+ in agreement here but passing messages back and forth we focus on defending the other 10%.

Peace.

LOL. Doesn’t use up enough of our available time to just hit the like button and move on. And haven’t forums always been used for conflict all the way back to the Roman Forum in 8th Century B.C.

 

[Consigliere]

LOL. Doesn’t use up enough of our available time to just hit the like button and move on. And haven’t forums always been used for conflict all the way back to the Roman Forum in 8th Century B.C.

Don’t remember. I’m old, but not quite that old!

 

[Bayside44]

Yeah, pretty ugly.

Especially when you consider that the 2 good seasons were the first 2, with a dropoff from there.

Maybe the whole team was in quarantine?

 

[NKR1978]

When’s the last time a Syracuse team felt like a national championship contender? Feels like it’s been a long time. That should be the standard.

2015 Battle for Atlantis.

 

[chugg21]

20 game conference schedules now too. I won’t deny that we haven’t been as good as we generally were in the BE years but there are many factors involved that make the “double digit losses” argument more of a platitude.

Just saying double digits is somewhat pleasant. It's 13+ losses in last 7 full seasons (20-21 being shortened a bit). Had only happened 3 times in the 40+ years before the start of this streak. So from less than once a decade to nearing a full decade consecutively.

 

[orangecuse]

Don’t remember. I’m old, but not quite that old!

Not old, "Just Older."

 

[Zelda Zonk]

We are getting nowhere here so I will bow out. If “not being ranked” is your definition of mediocrity, then there are 332 mediocre teams in Division 1. As I said, I take a more literal definition of the word. We’re no longer elite. We no longer excel, but we have still been a good to very good program over the last 10 years. No need to quibble over semantics.

.500 in your league is what I’d consider “mediocre.” No reason for a team with an xDome, our resources, and our history to compare itself versus South by Southwest Cactus Tech. Our context makes “332 D1 teams“ irrelevant. Is that how far down we’d have to sink before we ‘self-report’ as “mediocre,” when we’re ‘ranked’ #179?

 

[littlereg]

The thing with forums like this is everyone argues their extremes but realistically we all know what’s best, what’s the truth, etc is somewhere normally in between those extremes.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

The thing with forums like this is everyone argues their extremes but realistically we all know what’s best, what’s the truth, etc is somewhere normally in between those extremes.

I wouldn't agree with that.

 

[Sherman20]

Let me just say that Hop did have the advantage of recruiting for JB when JB was a younger man. I think it has to be a hard sale to sell a 77 year old guy as your Head Coach.

How are those assistant coaches at Florida State selling 73-year old Leonard Hamilton, who doesn’t have anywhere near JB’s resume? They seem to be recruiting well. I’m honestly wondering.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

How are those assistant coaches at Florida State selling 73-year old Leonard Hamilton, who doesn’t have anywhere near JB’s resume? They seem to be recruiting well. I’m honestly wondering.

He doesn't look that old? They like his personality? Players like the system? It's Florida?

 

[721Comstock]

He doesn't look that old? They like his personality? Players like the system? It's Florida?

He plays more than 7 guys, that's for sure.

Also seems like he's 2 decades younger than JB, even if in reality it's only 5 years.

(this is not a bash on JB, it's just that Ham looks like he's in his late 50's)

 

[hoopsupstate]

If JB played 20 Big East conference games he would have had more double digit loss seasons.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

He plays more than 7 guys, that's for sure.

Also seems like he's 2 decades younger than JB, even if in reality it's only 5 years.

(this is not a bash on JB, it's just that Ham looks like he's in his late 50's)

Black don't crack.
Plus, he's got a high "Hollywood" profile from those acting gigs in The Wire and BARRY.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I've thought this as well but didn't want to go down that road. But yeah I think optics will play a factor here.

Optics notwithstanding, and I do agree it wouldn’t be a good look, it’s strictly a matter of heirachy, imo.
It would be unprecedented as an in-house hire, for any program to pass over the associate HC, and give the job to the least experienced asst coach on the staff.
GMac does seem to be getting more mentions from recruits, but he’s certainly no Jon Scheyer, so why the preference over Red? That’s a question JW would need to answer: Is he willing to put his job on the line and bet on GMac as successor?

 

[DoctorBombay]

If JB played 20 Big East conference games he would have had more double digit loss seasons.

If my aunt had cujones, she’d be my uncle. Just a gratuitous shot against JB, imo. Weak.

 

[cayugacuse]

Curious to me I haven't heard Jason Hart mentioned more.

 

[dasher]

How are those assistant coaches at Florida State selling 73-year old Leonard Hamilton, who doesn’t have anywhere near JB’s resume? They seem to be recruiting well. I’m honestly wondering.

Might be that Florida is a lot easier to sell than Syracuse and the cold.

 

[tee1222]

The thing with forums like this is everyone argues their extremes but realistically we all know what’s best, what’s the truth, etc is somewhere normally in between those extremes.