What Jim Phillips has done to unify ACC football

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[sutomcat]

This is a really important article that contains a lot of good info about what the ACC is doing with football. Sounds like divisions are going away. Maybe even for next season.

Impressed with Phillips. He gets it.

 

[WoadBlue]

Well worth the read

Getting rid of divisions is discussed.

My favorite quote, regarding playoff expansion: "Jack {Swarbrick} tried to swindle us into going for it. That thing got squashed back at ACC media day," one source said.

 

[721Comstock]

Well worth the read

Getting rid of divisions is discussed.

My favorite quote, regarding playoff expansion: "Jack {Swarbrick} tried to swindle us into going for it. That thing got squashed back at ACC media day," one source said.

Nuking divisions and going to pods or rotating or ANYTHING other than the status quo, would be a welcome change.

We play some teams like once or twice a decade now, it's ridiculous.

 

[Orijinal]

It sounds like it's time for the forum's annual conference scheduling realignment discussion.

I am fully in favor of (and actively anticipating) a beautiful 3-5-5 conference schedule. Each team plays 3 teams every year, and goes against the 10 remaining teams every other year

But what is a "pod?" Is that similar to a 3-5-5, or entirely different?

 

[cusefan88]

It sounds like it's time for the forum's annual conference scheduling realignment discussion.

I am fully in favor of (and actively anticipating) a beautiful 3-5-5 conference schedule. Each team plays 3 teams every year, and goes against the 10 remaining teams every other year

But what is a "pod?" Is that similar to a 3-5-5, or entirely different?

I think the thought is the three teams you play every year is a "pod". I'm guessing Cuse would be Louisville, BC, and Pitt.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The ACC would really need 9 games to make divisionless work properly. Going 3+5/5 leaves out some games. Having 5+4/4 leaves nothing out. They could go with 4 permanent rivals with 8 conference games. That would take 9 years to see everyone home and away twice (4 games total).

With 4 you can have:

FSU- Miami, Clemson, GA Tech, Louisville
Miami- FSU, VA Tech, BC, Louisville
Clemson- Wake, NC State, GA Tech, FSU
GA Tech- Duke, Clemson, FSU, UVA
UVA- UNC, VA Tech, GA Tech, SU
VA Tech- UVA, Miami, BC, Pitt
UNC- UVA, Wake, Duke, NC State
Duke- UNC, Wake, GA Tech, NC State
NC State- Wake, UNC, Clemson, Duke
Wake- NC State, UNC, Duke, Clemson
Pitt- SU, VA Tech, Louisville, BC
SU- Pitt, BC, Louisville, UVA
BC- SU, Pitt, Miami, VA Tech
Louisville- SU, FSU, Pitt, Miami

 

[longtimefan]

The ACC would really need 9 games to make divisionless work properly. Going 3+5/5 leaves out some games. Having 5+4/4 leaves nothing out. They could go with 4 permanent rivals with 8 conference games. That would take 9 years to see everyone home and away twice (4 games total).

With 4 you can have:

FSU- Miami, Clemson, GA Tech, Louisville
Miami- FSU, VA Tech, BC, Louisville
Clemson- Wake, NC State, GA Tech, FSU
GA Tech- Duke, Clemson, FSU, UVA
UVA- UNC, VA Tech, GA Tech, SU
VA Tech- UVA, Miami, BC, Pitt
UNC- UVA, Wake, Duke, NC State
Duke- UNC, Wake, GA Tech, NC State
NC State- Wake, UNC, Clemson, Duke
Wake- NC State, UNC, Duke, Clemson
Pitt- SU, VA Tech, Louisville, BC
SU- Pitt, BC, Louisville, UVA
BC- SU, Pitt, Miami, VA Tech
Louisville- SU, FSU, Pitt, Miami

I don't follow. What games does 3-5-5 leave out?

 

[Orijinal]

To my knowledge 3-5-5 leaves no games out

14 teams in ACC
Your team counts as 1 (Syracuse)
The 3 teams you play brings it to 4
Then 5 teams one year and 5 teams the next year brings the total to 14

 

[Orijinal]

I don't follow. What games does 3-5-5 leave out?

I think we are having a semantics issue. 3-5-5 does not mean 3 teams. The 3 stands for the 3 teams you play every year. What is unspoken is that your team plays those 3 teams. That makes it 4 teams

 

[WoadBlue]

It sounds like it's time for the forum's annual conference scheduling realignment discussion.

I am fully in favor of (and actively anticipating) a beautiful 3-5-5 conference schedule. Each team plays 3 teams every year, and goes against the 10 remaining teams every other year

But what is a "pod?" Is that similar to a 3-5-5, or entirely different?

There is no way to beat the 3+5 (5) scheduling for ACC football.

 

[TheCusian]

I think I like this new conference commissioner. Slow rolling the playoff expansion to get stuff addressed is smart and while using some political capitol, is a nice change from the "more money all the time no matter what" model that typically distorts CFB.

Going to pods is a no brainer. Sounds like the B1G will do the same. It allows for better inventory especially when combined with an alliance game.

 

[Orijinal]

From the quotes that I read from that article that was posted in the OP it sounds like this might be decided this week and we might have a change sooner than later. Someone who has actually read it can correct me if I'm wrong

Get rid of division by next year. Play everyone in your conference. 3-5-5 all the way!!

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I don't follow. What games does 3-5-5 leave out?

The Carolina schools. They all have non Carolina rivals too. Is 3+5/5 better for them than the current setup, absolutely. But it still doesn't fix the issue that has existed.

UNC has played Wake more times than Duke or NC State but do not play them yearly. Nor would they with 3+5/5. And Wake has played UNC more than Duke.

Duke lost NC State who GA Tech has passed by as the #3 played rival. For NC State, Clemson recently passed Duke as #3. They wouldn't play each other in 3+5/5.

You also lose Clemson vs FSU as a yearly matchup.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

To my knowledge 3-5-5 leaves no games out

14 teams in ACC
Your team counts as 1 (Syracuse)
The 3 teams you play brings it to 4
Then 5 teams one year and 5 teams the next year brings the total to 14

Yearly games we are talking about. You only play 3 teams yearly. The other teams you play every other year. Who is talking about leaving teams out?

 

[longtimefan]

The Carolina schools. They all have non Carolina rivals too. Is 3+5/5 better for them than the current setup, absolutely. But it still doesn't fix the issue that has existed.

UNC has played Wake more times than Duke or NC State but do not play them yearly. Nor would they with 3+5/5. And Wake has played UNC more than Duke.

Duke lost NC State who GA Tech has passed by as the #3 played rival. For NC State, Clemson recently passed Duke as #3. They wouldn't play each other in 3+5/5.

You also lose Clemson vs FSU as a yearly matchup.

3-5-5 means that you play everyone 2 times every 4 years, once at home, once on the road. Which beats the hell out of what we have now, with, for example, Miami visiting the Dome once every 12 years.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

There is no way to beat the 3+5 (5) scheduling for ACC football.

Would you rather play Wake yearly or Wake every other year? You can achieve yearly with 4 perm and then rotate the other 4 games with the other 9 teams. So UNC would play SU 4x (twice home and twice away) over 9 seasons, or home and away every 4.5 seasons. That is a lot better than once home and once away over 12 years. While 3+5/5 is home and away every 4 seasons, so you add half a season to go with 4 perm rivals. It isn't as clean, but it preserves tradition better.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

3-5-5 means that you play everyone 2 times every 4 years, once at home, once on the road. Which beats the hell out of what we have now, with, for example, Miami visiting the Dome once every 12 years.

Just because it is better than what we have now doesn't mean it is the best solution. That is my point.

 

[sutomcat]

Just because it is better than what we have now doesn't mean it is the best solution. That is my point.

If we end up with a 9 game conference schedule in the ACC, I like your suggestion. The pairings are not acceptable; we can't be paired with UL for instance.

But the general premise is good and I agree, the more often we play all the teams in the conference, the better.

The key to me is money.

If the ACC is going to get more money playing an 8 game conference schedule with an Alliance game every year, I am for that.

If the ACC gets more money going to 9 conference games, I am for that.

ESPN is underpaying the ACC big time and that has to be addressed for the status quo to change. I think that is the way Phillips is playing this and really, it is his only play.

I hope it works.

Personally, I think the B1G, P12 and ACC are all going to play 8 game conference schedules and have a 9th Alliance game annually. There will be an oddball team or two in the ACC each year that has to schedule an extra OOC game because the ACC has more teams but my guess is that this will get all the Alliance teams the most money and they are going to go in that direction.

Very glad to hear the ACC is finally open to change on this. The current conference schedule setup is truly awful and has to change ASAP.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If we end up with a 9 game conference schedule in the ACC, I like your suggestion. The pairings are not acceptable; we can't be paired with UL for instance.

But the general premise is good and I agree, the more often we play all the teams in the conference, the better.

The key to me is money.

If the ACC is going to get more money playing an 8 game conference schedule with an Alliance game every year, I am for that.

If the ACC gets more money going to 9 conference games, I am for that.

ESPN is underpaying the ACC big time and that has to be addressed for the status quo to change. I think that is the way Phillips is playing this and really, it is his only play.

I hope it works.

Personally, I think the B1G, P12 and ACC are all going to play 8 game conference schedules and have a 9th Alliance game annually. There will be an oddball team or two in the ACC each year that has to schedule an extra OOC game because the ACC has more teams but my guess is that this will get all the Alliance teams the most money and they are going to go in that direction.

Very glad to hear the ACC is finally open to change on this. The current conference schedule setup is truly awful and has to change ASAP.

Are the B1G, B12, P12 really going to go down from 10 P5 games (9+1) to 9 games (8+1)? Especially if the SEC goes up to 10 from 9? TV won't want that.

I think the ACC will go 8+2 because of the ND problem. So Clemson and FSU don't have to worry about having years of 9 ACC + SEC Rival + ND (11 P5 games).

Someone has to be paired with Louisville. I hate that we play them yearly, but unfortunately we are likely odd man out.

 

[WoadBlue]

The ACC would really need 9 games to make divisionless work properly. Going 3+5/5 leaves out some games. Having 5+4/4 leaves nothing out. They could go with 4 permanent rivals with 8 conference games. That would take 9 years to see everyone home and away twice (4 games total).

With 4 you can have:

FSU- Miami, Clemson, GA Tech, Louisville
Miami- FSU, VA Tech, BC, Louisville
Clemson- Wake, NC State, GA Tech, FSU
GA Tech- Duke, Clemson, FSU, UVA
UVA- UNC, VA Tech, GA Tech, SU
VA Tech- UVA, Miami, BC, Pitt
UNC- UVA, Wake, Duke, NC State
Duke- UNC, Wake, GA Tech, NC State
NC State- Wake, UNC, Clemson, Duke
Wake- NC State, UNC, Duke, Clemson
Pitt- SU, VA Tech, Louisville, BC
SU- Pitt, BC, Louisville, UVA
BC- SU, Pitt, Miami, VA Tech
Louisville- SU, FSU, Pitt, Miami

We are not going to play 9 league games. There are 4 teams that play a season-ender vs. an SEC in-state rival. 5 of us play ND per year. If the Alliance works out for OOC scheduling, all of us will play either 1 or 2 teams from the BT and Pac each year.

 

[WoadBlue]

The Carolina schools. They all have non Carolina rivals too. Is 3+5/5 better for them than the current setup, absolutely. But it still doesn't fix the issue that has existed.

UNC has played Wake more times than Duke or NC State but do not play them yearly. Nor would they with 3+5/5. And Wake has played UNC more than Duke.

Duke lost NC State who GA Tech has passed by as the #3 played rival. For NC State, Clemson recently passed Duke as #3. They wouldn't play each other in 3+5/5.

You also lose Clemson vs FSU as a yearly matchup.

Wake was our first game (in baseball as well) which is the reason we have played them in OOC games. But playing Wake twice over 4 years is acceptable. If we go 3 (annual) + 5 (5), our 3 most likely would be UVA (South's Oldest Rivalry), Dook (Victory Bell), and MooU (AKA State College).

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It is funny of the Atlantic schools I only want to play BC yearly. I have no desire to see the others yearly. But of the Coastal teams I would like to see all of them, yet we never play them outside of Pitt.

 

[WoadBlue]

Are the B1G, B12, P12 really going to go down from 10 P5 games (9+1) to 9 games (8+1)? Especially if the SEC goes up to 10 from 9? TV won't want that.

I think the ACC will go 8+2 because of the ND problem. So Clemson and FSU don't have to worry about having years of 9 ACC + SEC Rival + ND (11 P5 games).

Someone has to be paired with Louisville. I hate that we play them yearly, but unfortunately we are likely odd man out.

Geographically, the two closest fits to Louisville are Pitt and VT.

 

[TheCusian]

Just because it is better than what we have now doesn't mean it is the best solution. That is my point.

As much as it makes sense (and is somewhat likely) that NC schools get what they want - it’s not the only concern. As sutomcat said - much depends on going to 9 games or not.

8 games + pod where you see everyone in a 2 year span + an alliance game = more money

Might be enough for Wake and UNC not to play every year